My uncertain heart

[Sambaqui]

After an hour of sitting and reading the paper online this morning, I noticed sensations in my chest similar to those that have previously indicated AF. My Wellue told me I was in sinus but the rhythm was irregular and there were PACs and PVCs.

I have often noticed that PACs and PVCs in the mornings usually settled down later in the day but this morning I experimented by jumping up and down for a couple of minutes to get my heart beating a bit faster. I then checked the ecg again. The Wellue reported regular rhythm and no PACs and PVCs.

Does anyone know if my heart’s uncertain start to the day signals a lack of vagal tone, and that if that's the case would I be better exercising first thing rather than sitting with the newspaper. And (to get to where all this is leading) if I go into AF should I try raising my heart rate with exercise before reaching for flecainide?

[Jalia]

In my early AF days....20/30 years ago, I often had a feeling that I was about to go into AF but have since realised that it was most likely ectopics.

Many people on here find exercising will put them back into sinus rhythm. It's never worked for me, possibly because my rate is normally so fast that it would be risky to raise it further. Trial and error I guess .

[Sambaqui in reply to Jalia]

Thanks, Jalia, for responding and for reminding me to watch the heart rate if I do try it.

[BobD Volunteer]

When I started my AF journey all those years ago I used to reason that when my heart went manic, if I raised my body's need to the level it was manic at then when I slowed down again it might come down also. Sometimes it did but when I mentioned my stategy to my doctor he was horrified and told me never to do it again. Mind you he wasn't a either a cardiologist or an EP.

[Sambaqui in reply to BobD]

I like the thinking, Bob, a kind of speeding up and slowing down to click back into gear. If I try it, I shall do so with caution.

[Buffafly]

I once had an episode of bigeminy (ectopics in a regular pattern). I found that while I was still I had the ectopics but as soon as I moved about they stopped. So your theory seems reasonable. Sounds like your heart is like my cat who gets the zoomies at what she considers getting up time and demands I swish her favourite toy about while I am zombiing about getting a cup of coffee.So a bit of light exercise before starting the day might be effective? But caution while actually in AF……

[Sambaqui in reply to Buffafly]

Thanks Buffafly. It's interesting that the heart seems to need just that bit of stress to stay running smoothly, though I think I'm some way off suffering early morning zoomies. I'll continue to experiment ... with care.

[secondtry in reply to Sambaqui]

I have found a controlled level of stress is beneficial.....easy said than put into place!!!

[CDreamer]

Works for some so give it a try? I always do my exercises 1st thing.

[Sambaqui in reply to CDreamer]

Yes, I usually do mine in the evening - so maybe a shift to the morning is the answer. Thank you.

[Keswickman]

Hi Sambaqui,

Like you I get PACs mostly in the early hours which last couple of hours until I get up. I get 15-20 a minute at that point, so fairly constant. Within minutes of getting up and moving around, they’ve gone or reduced dramatically.

I also get them sometimes in clusters after eating so try to eat smaller meals, take my time and rest for 30 minutes after eating to hopefully prevent them.

There’s a video by Dr Sanjay Gupta on YouTube which relates specifically to vagus nerve ectopics which details ectopics after eating and also if the heart rate slows too much and vagal tone reduces, more ectopics will creep in.

I just wish mine would wait a couple of hours in the morning so I could get a good nights kip.

Activity/exercise definitely works for me.

Hope it works for you,

Stay well

Nick

[Sambaqui in reply to Keswickman]

Yes, I think I shall try making sure I get some movement early in the day. I'll also watch the Sanjay Gupta video. Thanks, Nick.

[secondtry]

Listen to your body and be moderately active in the morning.

Taking key supplements at a different time can help:

I had a similar experience recently the other way around. I have an active morning (exercise & mentally at work) and take all my supplements. Lunch is our main meal and then a snooze plus a more sedentary afternoon. Problem started emerging in the afternoons getting what I can only describe as pre-AF feelings when doing a few light jobs; not sure if they were ectopics or other but know I needed to sit down to loose them!

Solution: I tried taking my Mg compound (incl. taurine, potassium & more) at lunch instead of at breakfast, never done this before, and it seems to have worked 😁.

[Sambaqui in reply to secondtry]

Thanks for your thoughts, Secondtry. Listening, exercise, and experimenting seem to be the way forward.

[secondtry in reply to Sambaqui]

🙌

[OzJames]

Wind the clock back and my AF started over 30 years ago. Average once every 4 or 5 years. Up until 2022 I would feel the AF hit me, which was not a frantic rate at 85-90 HR then go and then do vigorous exercise get my HR higher and found that worked up until 2022. I also get ectopics from time to time but found that a regular 4km walk every morning seems to help steady them for the day. My daily magnesium, Vit d3 and CoQ10 intake might help too. We are all different and what works for one might not for another

[Sambaqui in reply to OzJames]

We are indeed all different, Oz James, though as it happens I take the same supplements as you. I've upped my walking recently. Maybe I'll try it earlier in the day.

[Ppiman]

I think what you have has been frequently reported here and is something I also have. I don't know about the vagal tone relevance since there are so many aspects that might be at play. The ectopic beats are said to be "benign" and of no eventual concern so stopping them through exercise would be helpful only if they cause symptoms or anxiety, I suppose. I get many and in long runs at times that feels much the same as the occasional AF I suffer.

Steve

[Sambaqui in reply to Ppiman]

Thanks for the reminder, Steve, that ectopics are considered "benign" and that they can feel similar to AF. I guess it's always worth checking which it is.

[Ppiman in reply to Sambaqui]

I think so and when I get AF, as happened last week, which is, luckily, unusual, I’m taking ECGs every few minutes! As others say, the symptoms are what matter most but, for me, anxiety plays a part, always.

Steve

[Sambaqui in reply to Ppiman]

Me too. 😊

[Ppiman in reply to Sambaqui]

Sorry for the missed typos!

😳

Steve

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Ppiman]

My consultant said that adrenaline aggravates AF, so always a good idea to try (easier said than done) to take some slow deep breaths and relax. But… the body isn’t quite operating normally during AF so it’s quite a feat.

[Ppiman in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Apart from the first time I had it, soon after my ablation when my heart rate went crazy, AF hasn't affected me too badly, that is, unless a new (or forgotten) symptom crops up, then the anxiety is tough to deal with.

Steve

[Banquo]

I get a load of ectopics every night when going to bed. Something about laying flat I guess. It is uncomfortable but hasn't gone full AF again. I am 5 months post 2nd ablation. Heart rate significantly up during exercise...like normal run would be 130bpm, now is 170. But no Afib. Just lots of ectopics. I guess we all find our way in figuring out what works best for us, dangers or triggers real or perceived. Definitely overnight is a heavy ectopic time, no matter what I do. Good luck!

[Sambaqui in reply to Banquo]

Thanks, and good luck to you. Our ectopics occur at different times but sleep and being horizontal seem to be a connection. I hope you manage to stay clear of the "full AF". all the best