Hello, I am 65 still working and reasonably fit , and have permanent Afib but so far very few symptoms. I take 2.5 mg of Bisoprolol a day.
I have had Afib on and off for around 10 years
As part of the great NHS system, I was told I needed to be on Apixaban
However, the side effects horrify me
Should I take it and snuff it like a nice rat, or see how I go with no thinners ?
Comments would be appreciated
Basically its a case of go without anticoagulants ..... see how ya go with a stroke - your call !! There are other anticoagulants apart from that one you mention.
Af patiens with no risk factors, however,have yearly risk of stroke of well under 1 percent. That's not much more than people of the same age without AF. When people accumulate more than two risk factors nearly all doctors agree for taking clot blocking drugs. Doctors estimate the stroke risk with algorithm called CHADS VASC score.One point is given to Congestive heart failure one point High blood pressure onepoint for Age over 65 one point for Diabetes two points for previous Stroke one point for Vascular disease twe points for age over 75 and one point for female gender.
Here’s a link to all the patient resources on AFA website.
heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...
Start with Anticoagulation and AF info sheet and then there’s one on Apixaban and other anticoagulants.
Hope this is helpful.
Thank you excellent site and reply
You can always stop taking anticoagulants but a stroke is for ever.
The listed side effects of any drug are enough to put anyone off but they are listed as possibilities during treatment anyway. I have taken Apixaban for over 10 years and have had no unexplained bleeds, bruises or problems of any kind.
Cuts take slightly longer to coagulate - drug doing its job and I make sure to remind my dentist of anticoagulation at each visit. I have noticed that my hair breaks more easily and seems thinner, but better than a stroke any day.
I fretted about taking it at the beginning but now it's just part of my life - best wishes with it.
I didn't know thinner hair was a side effect. I thought mine was thinner for other reasons, though not getting thicker now. I also am now resigned to taking ymthem as stroke prevention. If you're in permanent AF you are higher risk than someone whose had an ablation to correct that.
Quite a few of us have noticed it Turquoise - I assumed at first that it was natural ageing but apparently not.
Ah right. Now I know! Off for a hair cut tomorrow 🤪
Modern anticoagulants are NOTHING like rat poison although a few still cling to their Wafarin and do not want to change.
Apixaban is the one I have been taking since 2016 and I’ve not experienced any side effects, although a few posters on this forum have.
You have a wide choice of anticoagulants and as BenHall quoted - see how you cope with the effects of an AF induced stroke.
Choice is always about weighing up the benefits v risks and for me with a CHADS score of 4 I’ll take the little pink pills.
Why change from Warfarin which is tried and tested? I did, not to Apixaban, but another DOAC, and had totally unacceptable side effects. I was taken off it after 12 days. The painful auto-immune condition it caused lasted nearly 4 years. I went back to Warfarin and self test my INR, sending my results to GP when asked for them.
As for Apixaban I have no experience. Many on this discussion board take it without any problems. There is no standard human body. Some people will have side effects, but the vast majority won't so it's not worth worrying.
I have never been on Wafarin so I’ve never known any difference. I was originally on Dabigatran prior to and following ablation - I did suffer from GERD with Dabigatron which is why I changed to Apixaban.
The advantages for me on DOACs were:- no testing, consistency so no adjustments to dose or diet, better bleed risk profile and no affects - for me.
What one did you take and what were side effects please?
Rivaroxaban caused pains throughout my body (except my head), and triggered the Auto-immune condition of Polymyalgia Rheumatica. It took 3 years and 8 months to rid my body of Polymyalgia Rheumatica. So was I trying another "aban" (DOAC)? No, I went back to Warfarin
Yes, my Pharmacist referred to Warfarin as rat poison and was mystified as to why someone would prefer it to the new generation anticoagulants. Just his opinion of course !
Your Pharhmacist has obviously not had a bad reaction to a DOAC, so bad, in my case, that I won't try another "aban". Warfarin is tried and tested.
Obviously not, but he was correct historically- Warfarin was first marketed in 1948 as a rat poison.
But used medically since 1954.
Lots of people use it successfully and have done for many years.
Hiya pusillanimous,
My daughter many years ago ( in an age when the NOAC's were just on the laboratory test bench ) was a Dental Nurse .... when I told her I was on Warfarin her comment/reaction was the same ....... "ooooh Dad, but that's rat poison".
Perhaps your Pharmacist should be less subjective and remember that there are many peeps out there in pixieland who are/have been - eternally grateful to the existence of Warfarin ... me being one. As far as I am concerned it's a case of one mans meat is another mans poison. Warfarin is littered with case histories of peeps who cannot handle it .... and they are eternally grateful for the NOAC's. Equally, there is an increasing army of patients who ( for whatever reason) find they cannot handle NOAC's either.
I have recently been conned by my GP into switching from Warfarin to Edoxaban. No side effects .... BUT ... if I get any now or in future I'll be going back to Warfarin. I will certainly not go to another NOAC ! Warfarin is my anticoagulant of choice. The range of NOAC's are too new and relatively unproven to be relied upon. Go to the Australian Government Dept of Health and Aged Care, Theraputic Goods Administration and its advice to Health Professionals on Dabigitran ( Pradaxa).
Hi Ben - I was just quoting his opinion (after all he has a 4 year degree in pharmacology and I only have knowledge gained from packet inserts and the Internet.) This being the case, I respect his point of view but do not consider it gospel, He merely expressed it during a conversation when I had decided to change from Warfarin to an NOAC for the sake of convenience. Here in South Africa Warfarin is 'Cheap as Chips', and although my Medical Aid Society pays a portion, the NOAC is much more expensive. Ultimately, it's up to the patient what suits them best. Glad to hear your daughter was in the dental field, - a fellow traveller, say hello from me ! I was PA to an eminent Professor of Oral Rehabilitation.
I would absolutely agree a stroke is life changing and therefore would take the apixiban. I have been on apixiban for three years and have had no side effects
There are two types of stroke, hemorrhagic and ischemic. My grandmother died of the former. My best friend survived the latter with no longterm disability. Myself, with a low CHADS score, I hesitate. In the meantime, I do everything I can in terms of a healthy diet and daily exercise to lower my risk of stroke. I do have the prescription for the DOAC (two actually), but will likely wait at least until I speak to an EP in mid March to decide what to do. I understand they want you on the anticoagulants before, during and after an ablation and I am hoping ablation will be in my near future.
Flower child,
Yes, I understand your situation. In 2016 I had unexplained chronic bilateral subdural haematomas. At 77 now, with a Chads2 of 2 for age only, I have so far been reluctant to start the apixaban I was offered.
However whenever I mention my situation re fear of repeat intracranial bleeding in the very rare occasion of talking to someone medical who has contact with brain bleed patients (a neurosurgeon, or yesterday a cardio physiologist), I am met with sympathetic understanding. However my contact with others who seem to be "covering their arses" by routinely offering anticoagulation simply because a predetermined Chads2 score is reached, but without considering personal circumstances, is a very disappointing version of the NHS.
I am fortunate however in not being close to needing an ablation.
Good luck to us both.
I believe ablation accompanied by Left Artrial Appendage Occlusion will become the treatment of choice in a new era of standard afib treatment and stroke prevention. They potentially cure the problem, put an end to it. Yes, sometimes more than one ablation is needed. It’s understandable given the complexity of the heart and afib. But the statistics for becoming afib free with a minimalized stroke risk are all in favor of a positive result.
DOAC’s rank in the category of risky drugs based on the number of ER visits and hospitalizations they precipitate. I’ve lived that story with family members.
I’ve been on DOAC’s for 3 years (I do not want a stroke) but will be off them permanently in a few months when I’m in full recovery from my recent ablation and Watchman implant. How I look forward to being drug free. All drugs have side effects; they fix one thing in the body and screw up another, sometimes minimally, sometimes not. I’ve chosen the “mechanical” route of actually fixing the physical problem over the chemical-pharmaceutical route, which never worked for my fib and flutter. It does for some, and I’m happy for them.
Good luck in making your decision.
I have started taking apixaban as heading for an ablation. I don’t need it according to chadsvasc criteria. I have PAF, and taken it before when it gave me dizzy spells. However this time, I have had no noticeable side effects whatsoever. Just because they list a lot on the packet doesn’t mean you are going to get them. We are all different in our tolerances. As others have said, it’s all about balancing the risks, which only you can decide with your doctor. As you are fit, I am assuming it is your age which has caused your doctor to prescribe, as your risk of stroke is increasing. Good luck in your decision making.
nothing is risk free in life. If you take paracetamol have you looked at the possible side effects? As said on here they have to list everything just in case. It doesn’t mean that you will have any of them. And often the benefits can outweigh the possible side effects involved. I rattle with my tablets but I’m still here and able to keep fit and have a good life. Good luck with your decision.
Completely understand your reluctance. It will be your risk of a stroke that has triggered this recommendation due to being in permenant Afib and your age. A CHAD score shoild have been done to assess this risk. I would ask to discuss this reasoning as it sounds like this has not happened. I'm afraid Afib raises the risk of a stroke considerably because the blood can pool in a section oaf your heart known as the LAA flap where clots can form. These can then eventually circulate around your body causing problems, most commonly a stroke.
Are you under a cardiologist? If so I would contact their secretary and ask if you may talk to him/her to discuss.
Most people are fine on anti coags. For some they can cause bleeding problems. You do have to be a bit more careful or on it if you have a fall or cut yourself badly.
I did have a few probs but I am unusual and my problems were addressed by lowering the dose of my anti coag. However whilst there is research stsrted on whether a lower dose is as effective for some people, it is not proven. In the end I tackled the risk of a stroke in a different way through surgery.....which is drastic and was also done because my afib couldn't be well controlled with drugs, I wasn't suitable for a catheter Ablation so was my only remsining route.
On an anticoagulant your risk of a stroke is greatly reduced but it doesn't mean it won't happen, just far more likely not to do so. It is something that you should consider very seriously and discuss with your specialist.
I hope this helps.
Hi, I am 61 with AF, did not take Apixaban, suffered a stroke. It's your choice.
what side effects? I have none. Do you?
hi,
I have a Chads score of 1 and I was on both BISOPROLOL and Apixaban for PAF and then permanent Afib. However, after about 4 months I developed quite severe cold burning + cramp in my feet, with some up my calf and back of lower thigh, it varies in where it pops up but the feet became increasingly painful. I even had flashes of it in upper limbs and the inner corner of my eyes.
I had a CV on Feb 15th 2023 and was told to stop taking the Biso - though my pharmacy advised me to wean off slowly which I did. I continued with the APIXABAN but the pain continued though over a LONG time it began to recede somewhat to the point that it was bearable. I still had very painful days so I decided to stop the Apixaban as I felt desperate and it affected my mood badly. I now get it, intermittently with no pattern or logic to when it occurs. My cardiologist is aware of the fact that I can’t tolerate the drugs,
I am waiting for a convergent procedure at Bart’s Hospital which will include the left atrial appendage. I’m currently in India and decided to start taking the Apixaban again, which I did and within days the pain intensified to a point I couldn’t tolerate and I discontinued it. It didn’t disappear and has been an unwelcome addition to my day.
I remain in NSR and I’m in good health otherwise but my feet are still highly sensitive and I’m aware of it every day which affects my mood. Thankfully it doesn’t affect my sleep. I do understand the argument about stroke etc but my QOL deteriorated to the point where I could not live with the chronic pain.
Sod’s law my name came up for my procedure two days before I left with prepop appointment the day after I left and the first operation at the end of Feb (I get back a day before. So, I delayed it as I’m feeling fine and I’m happy with where I’m at.
Many people including my brother takes both these drugs with no side effects!!
I could not tolerate the Apixaban and it caused nerve pain for me as well in my feet. I switched to Waff in a couple of weeks ago and I don’t have that side effect. Good luck listen to your body and ask for a change.
Take it! You dont want s strike but ask to change to another blood thinner if the side effects bother you!!
Having had a stroke caused by AF which I didn't know I had, I wouldn't risk not taking anticoags. A stroke is life changing, if you survive! It not only affects you but everyone around you. If they have suggested you take anticoags please listen, the alternative is not good...
simple decision… no apixaban or any anti coagulant your chances of a stroke is highly raised xxxxx
Morning, I’ve taken Apixaban for over two years. I know and read all the horrific stories about Apixaban, however, if it can stop me from having a stroke or lower my chances of a stroke I’ll take it. I had teeth removed, scrapes, bumps normal day to day living and I class it as my life saver being in permanent AF.
In one of my previous posts I’ve a friend who messed around with her anticoagulant and has had a massive stroke. Her speech has gone, she is completely paralysed down one side and her life now is bed to chair, chair to bed. I’m so sad for her as she was a vibrant woman and mother. The Stroke Consultant thought the stroke was brought on by AF which she’s had for years.
It’s your call, take, don’t take. You can stop Apixaban if it doesn’t agree with you and go onto another anticoagulant, problem is a stroke is not reversible.
Good luck in what ever you choose. 🤗
Hi,
Like many others here, I have taken Apixaban for a number of years without any noticeable adverse side effects. Cuts and scratches do take a bit longer to stop bleeding but no serious problems at all.
Good Luck
As far as I see there’s NO choice. I hate taking any of them, they all have potential side effects, but a stroke could well kill you or worse, so paralysed quality of life is nil!
My father’s family had strokes, Grand Ma was bedridden. Dad had strokes at 50 and died, his sister was 67 died🤷🏼♀️
I hate having no options. I’m suffering bradycardia, lightheadedness, various aches pains that are not arthritis because I’ve had X-rays! I have an impending ablation on 20th, many say ‘oh that’s fine, I was fine’, 🙏🏼
The earlier you can get an ablation the better the outcome., once in permanent AF it’s more difficult.
So, yes I have to take the pills
Hiya LaceyLady,
You raise an interesting point in your second para ...... genetics ! My Dad's side of the family too .... in my case though the outcomes were a bit more cheerful. Nevertheless, I think we overlook the influence of genetics.
In my case going back to the 1960's, my (paternal ) grandfather died from a series of strokes ( sadly nobody alive to day who can throw any light on these strokes) I carry the AF diagnosis, my 2nd cousin ( his Dad was my Grandfathers brother) carries the AF diagnosis ..... and in more recent times my daughter ( when expecting her two daughters was diagnosed with AF during both pregnancies.
I think in so many walks in life we tend to disregard genetics .... in many cases to our eternal regret ..... so never would I give up my anticoagulant .... just because I haven't had an AF event that I know of for some 4 years. I say that because part of my original diagnosis written up was that I can also have the double whammy of being asymptomatic.
At least for now my main worry is osteoarthritic pain in both shoulders, hate it , but its a better option than an AF induced stroke ......... innit ! 🙂
John
The survival odds are better than winning the lottery. Do you buy tickets? I'm on Edoxaban - no side effects and I'm still alive after a Syncope and VT event 13 days ago, still in hospital. I wouldn't take a chance and disagree with an educated person who I pay for in my taxes. If you do fall in the small group of people who have side effects there are alternatives.
Snuff it! I have been taking Eliquis for two years. I have no side effects. It’s normal to fear, to look for reasons not to do what we ought to do. The full face effects of a stroke, far outweigh the side effects of an anticoagulant. Snuff it, big bear.
I believe ablation accompanied by Left Artrial Appendage Occlusion will become the treatment of choice in a new era of standard afib treatment and stroke prevention. They potentially cure the problem, put an end to it. Yes, sometimes more than one ablation is needed. It’s understandable given the complexity of the heart and afib. But the statistics for becoming afib free with a minimalized stroke risk are all in favor of a positive result.
DOAC’s rank in the category of risky drugs based on the number of ER visits and hospitalizations they precipitate. I’ve lived that story with family members.
I’ve been on DOAC’s for 3 years (I do not want a stroke) but will be off them permanently in a few months when I’m in full recovery from my recent ablation and Watchman implant. How I look forward to being drug free. All drugs have side effects; they fix one thing in the body and screw up another, sometimes minimally, sometimes not. I’ve chosen the “mechanical” route of actually fixing the physical problem over the chemical-pharmaceutical route, which never worked for my fib and flutter. It does for some, and I’m happy for them.
Good luck in making your decision.
You might note that I chose DOAC’s for stroke prevention while figuring out my next step in the afib journey. Statistically it only makes sense. People with afib are at a higher risk of stroke, fivefold I believe over people without afib.
Hi bigbearatthecave,
I can totally understand your reluctance to take an anticoagulant, but my decision was easy. My mother died of a stroke, and my Chad score indicated that it was sensible to take, so it was suggested to me to either go on Warfarin or Apixaban. (Apixaban being one of the newer ones) The reason I chose Apixaban was because I didn’t like the idea of having to regular blood tests and check to monitor the levels of warfarin, (which meant you may have to increase or decrease the dosage), although once it’s been stabilised it’s usually quite straightforward. So I have been on Apixaban for a number of years with absolutely no problems or side effects. It’s really a question of you chatting it through with your GP. Good luck with your decision
Well I have to and always will defend Warfarin to the hilt. Absolutely no problems with blood tests especially if you self test at home with your own device and test strips working in conjunction with your INR Clinic. No problems at all. In fact no more problems than a diabetic has in blood sugar testing. You are only partly correct in your statement about varying the dose of Warfarin ........... try watching ones diet instead of playing the doseage game - and varying that .... probably a healthier option ! I was on 10 weekly INR tests, what's wrong with that ? Most folk can never be bothered to understand Warfarin - thus forgetting that of all the things Warfarin likes is consistency, consistency and more consistency. I never ever had a problem with moderate social alcohol consumption either. I was in INR range around 95% of the time.
I have had to have a number of surgical procedures and switching Warfarin on and off has never been a problem with any of them including the most dramatic, knee replacement surgery.
Hi I am sure most of us are apprehensive when we are first told we need to take an anticoagulant but doing so is better than the possible alternative . I have been taking Apixaban for 7 years now, will take it for life and think nothing of it except when I have to stop it temporarily for a procedure then I am scared without it .
I have been on apixaban (Eliquis) for just over 8 years now and no side effects. I am monitored with blood tests every year and am fine. Have permanent AF and am able to do all the things I did before my AF was diagnosed 8 years ago. It is wise to use some form of anticoagulant with the stroke risk but in the end it is up to you - there are other anticoagulants you can have instead of apixaban.
Thank you, what do you do if you go to the dentist for example ?
I do nothing unless told to by my dentist. The first time I went after being put on apixaban even though both my dentist and cardio said there was no need to stop apixaban for the procedure I did as I was very scared of bleeding so didn't take my morning dose - had the treatment at about 2 ad took my usual night time dose of apixaban. Since then I have not stopped taking apixaban for dentistry unless the dentist thinks it is necessary -0 and believe me I have had a lot of dental work in the last 2 years with implants and brideges etc. - I still have another 4 appointments this month before it is all complete and have not been told to stop apixaban for any of these procedures. I ask for adrenaline free injections at the dentists because this can affect AF. I have also had a total knee replacement when I was told not to take the apixaban for 36 hours prior to the operation - they use a different anticoagulant during the operation and there were no problems with that either. I have also had many and varied 'oscopies". Laparoscopy and sigmoidoscopy, when I was told not to take the dose the night before the procedure and the morning of the procedure but continued to take the evening dose. No problems whatsoever - when I had my cystoscopy the consultant didn't think it was necessary to stop the dose at all and he was correct. I have only noticed that I bruise a little more easily but have not noticed that I bleed more or longer because of the anticoagulant - which is just as well as gardening in my wilderness causes lots of scratches and bumps to the head when pruning fruit trees. Remember that not every one gets side effects and very few have all the side effects and some will just have a few to a greater or lesser degree. If you are on medication and get side effects you cannot deal with then you can go back to your Doc and either change. My Mum had a stroke at 60 which left her with a few problems and for the next 28 years her and my Dad had a miserable life - so I already knew that if I was advised to take any medication to alleviate stroke risk I would.
In my casee I got a suddenn stroke.
All very interesting. I've been taking Apixaban for three days. I have a feeling of indigestion central sternum, loss of appetite, and headache. These side effects were not mentioned on the patient info sheet but were on the NHS site.The pharmacist who supplied the meds said she would ring a week after the meds were dispensed to enquire how I was getting on as it's a new prescription so I will have a chat with her. I might stop if the indigestion gets any worse.
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