I have permanent AF and of late is has been fairly normal to find walking difficult and feeling very breathless and easily tired. I am used to the routine of just carrying on and making myself stay as occupied and busy as I can.
What I just found today, was that I found the daily walk (40 minutes, mainly flat on a forest track at an oldie's 'brisk' rate) I felt a lot better than usual and on my return I took my pulse with the standard oxygen and pulse device. That showed a more regular trace than usual. So I checked up on my arm band BP monitor which usually shows an AF symbol every single time I take it (which is once a day). This confirmed that I was in normal sinus rhythm, or to be more accurate it did not show the usual flashing icon that shows that I am not.
Do others in permanent AF experience this? I just wish I knew whether there was a causative factor I could repeat! I have little doubt it will return to normal AF far too soon, but it is very interesting how what seems to be a long term disturbance in rhythm can so unexpectedly just revert to normal.
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oscarfox49
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Going to be ever so slightly picky first. Permanent AF is the same as persistent AF, the only difference is that both the patient and their doctors have accepted that there is nothing to be gained by chasing the holy grail of normal sinus rhythm so all medication is for controlling heart rate and if necessary, anticoagulation. All other invasive forms of treatment cease to be a treatment consideration.
So, subject to the results of a 12 lead ECG, carried at a time when you believe you are in NSR actually confirming that you are in NSR, then you are no longer suffering from either persistent or permanent AF but Paroxysmal AF.
It will be interesting to hear what others have to say…….
It's odd Oscar but I've been exactly the same today, full of energy and able to walk at a faster than usual pace. I'm in constant AF, (blow the persistent and permanent).
I haven't taken my pulse since getting home - been too busy changing the bed and cooking dinner.
Its been a lovely sunny and chilly day here and I wonder if it's anything to do with the air pressure.
Will check my pulse later when I've been sat still for a while.
You probably have a point there! The weather here too has been sunny and clear today after a long period of dark skies and lots of rain. I remember feeling more energetic and confident too even when I was still struggling first thing this morning with my first dog walk.
I do find the weather has a real influence on my moods and physical condition, so perhaps that is the cause. I am experiencing the normal 'skips' now and again this evening but the pulse seems to be much more regular than normal and the breathlessness has gone. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that it will be better tomorrow too, but I'm realistic enough to know that will probably not be the case. I am very happy just to have a few hours of 'relief' though when I thought that the chance of even that was completely over now!
This is the thing with afib - it comes and goes in a flash. Never in my life have I gone back to sinus without a CV. I have now - have been for about 3 months.
If you self converted you are not in permanent afib. As FJ says it's PAF. Maybe talk to your cardio about an ablation? It might work/might not but it's worth investigating.
You are right. I was in AF since 1995 to 2020 but always was told it was just paroxysmal and it never really affected my life. But for the last three years (after a stroke) the cardiologist and the GP kept insisting that it is permanent AF now. There's so many semantics in these terms with persistent, permanent and so on, and I prefer the term 'constant'. I was told an ablation was very unlikely to succeed as it had been permanent for so long but if it did revert more often to a more or less normal sinus rhythm that would hold out more hope.
I was particularly curious about why it had suddenly changed during the day (first time for many months) but as you say, these things can come and go in a flash. So far so good this evening but if it lasts through the night until tomorrow I will be genuinely amazed!
Hi Oscar. If you are back in sinus this is a great sign. It shows your heart may be able to respond to other treatments.
Don't give up on this one. I have no idea what your budget is - nor do I want to know. Look at the Wolf mini maze.
All best,
Paul
Hi! Physical activity has far larger influence on human body than believed. It can both - bring you into an arrhythmia and stop an underway arrhythmia. It can also switch you from one type of arrhythmia, to another one, quite quickly.
I can recall a member of this forum (from several years ago), who claimed to have been able to stop AF attack multiple times by jumping on his bicycle and cycling briskly for about 10 minutes (Julien (?), have not seen him here for pretty a long time). Maybe worth trying...
That's true and having had AF since 1995, mostly paroxysmal and probably only permanent since 2020, I always found exercise was a wonderful fix when I went into it. But in the last few months particularly it has been for the first time very unpleasant and made me feel breathless with lots of pressure around my diaphragm. I had begun to think 'Well this is now the latest permanent stage' so even though this is likely to be just a short lived 'relief', I was very surprised at it happening at all.
I had an unusual lunch of green lentils with carrots, squash, and onions etc today. Perhaps this was the 'magic ingredient'?
I must see what things are like tomorrow morning but thanks for your encouraging comments.
My husband often said going on his bike put his heart back into a normal rhythm. He had ablation in March and fingers crossed it seems to be holding up
I used to stop my high rate 165bpm attacks by going running my heart rate went very high then dropped. It took 7 to 10 mins which was around a mile. However on my 12th or 13th attack the trick stopped working and I was in high rate Afib for 8 daysThat led me to have an ablation!
I'm officially in permanent afib but will occasionally self convert to NSR my cardiologist is quite baffled and I didn't even have lentils,carrots,squash and onions fof lunch Oscar!I think it's just flukey that it goes into NSR but very nice when it does.
Forget the lentils, carrots, squash and onions! I have just discovered (again) why it was not a good idea for reasons not connected with AF! Terrible night with nightmares and turbulent digestive system! At least my AF is still under control this a.m. though. Thanks for your comment and telling me of your experience with AF.
Hello Oscar. I’m glad to hear you have some respite from Afib. It’s interesting what has been said here about exercise and weather. I find my afib lessens a little with fine, sunny weather, and my afib is generally a bit more frequent in the winter. Also, I know that air pressure can give me a headache sometimes, and if it can do that, then maybe it can also trigger Afib, and vice versa. I have noticed also that walking at a regular pace seems to calm the Afib. I am worse when sitting ‘resting’ - being lazy, if I’m honest ! But I do have to say my afib comes in short lived episodes anyway, though I had to mention my experience as others here remarked upon similar observances.
Thanks for your comment Annie. I think now that the finer weather with higher pressure must be an element in this. I had a very bad night (not with AF though) due to my 'diet' yesterday of lentils etc to which I attributed a possibility of the improvement in AF! I now remember why I don't often eat green lentils though!
As for walking, you are completely right and I almost always feel better after my afternoon walk.
Ha ha ! At least a ‘lentil episode’ is preferable to Afib ! And perhaps now you have had a ‘breakthrough’ episode of NSR, you can feel pleased you are in Paroxymal Afib after all. Wishing you lots of NSRs !
Explanations are difficult to come by with AF. I have adopted many suggestions here provided there is limited downside/side effects.
I would keep up 'the daily walk (40 minutes, mainly flat on a forest track at an oldie's 'brisk' rate)' and possibly up it to two similar walks per day; I have done this for years, AF in remission and think the brisk walks (I find Nordic Poles help) have been excellent training for the heart.
Well done and let's hope these experiences continue. It must have been a relief and a pleasure for you.
A BP machine doesn't pick up AF, just an irregular beat, which is often caused not by AF but by ectopic beats occurring irregularly, so you might not have been detecting AF. The same applies to n oximeter.
To identify AF you would need an Apple Watch or similar and to be holding it while still. I use this, or a Wellue AI 24-hour monitor and wouldn't be without either.
As to how AF can stop, well, unlike you, I don't have permanent AF but I do get regular ectopic beats and, fingers crossed as I write this, they have been very calm for some weeks now and NSR has been the norm for me. I think the heart is too complex to work out why things change except that it is known that the heart can be affected by "stretching" of its muscle, so overweight and tall people, for example, are worse affected by arrhythmias or even sometimes after a meal, or kneeling down, stretching high or just lying in bed can set of ectopic beats, and these can develop into AF in those prone. It seems once the heart muscle has become sensitised, it can be for life and something that slowly worsens as we age. And yet, as you have found, and me, it can go the other way for periods, too.
thanks for your thoughts and information. I realise that both my home gadgets are only 'indicators' and can't give a proper reading other than suggesting that my heart is in a better rhythm than normally. But the thing which most encouraged me yesterday was the improvement in physical effort without breathlessness which has plagued me for many months until yesterday. I am off on my regular morning walk which includes climbing up a steep grassy bank for around 45 paces. That is usually an onerous experience. If it is better this morning then it may definitely mean that something has improved in the last 24 hrs!
I love doing what you do, too, although I always have my trusty binoculars around my neck as it's the birds and wildlife that make my country walks extra worthwhile. Looking at the green (well, now beautifully yellowing...) countryside, no people nor houses in the view, and breathing the cool air are my best medicines.
Let's hope your heart stays well now and that awful anxious breathless feeling we both know so well becomes a distant memory!
I am very similar as we are very fortunate to live in the countryside beside a forest, a river and farmland. Most days we can expect to see lots of mammals like deer, wild boar sometimes and masses of different birds. We are next to a large lake (formed by an earth dam for irrigation) and there are masses of egrets, herons and so on to be seen. In fact I am currently construct a hide by the river so I can watch the birds better without being seen, though the walks are an essential part of our life style. All of these things help us with continuing in reasonable health, I am sure.
hi I am in permanent AF I use a n Apple Watch that tells me that every day but still I test to see if by chance of any changes I also have a BP monitor This one is one of the latest and as aECG devise which transfers the reading to my phone When I use my watch I also use my monitor Every time both gadgets tell me the exact reading Are you saying my monitor is not doing what it was brought for I only take readings when resting even on the watch Both give me a trace of heart pattern and both the same Might seem like I’m obsessed just the watch was a gift after the monitor and is good for comparing
No - sorry. After I wrote my reply, I recalled there were one or two special blood pressure machines that also are able to check for AF. One is by Withings, I recall, and the other Omron. There may be others now.
Most BP machines report only “irregular heartbeat”.
I don’t blame you for being careful and vigilant. I’m much the same but use a Wellue AI device instead.
I went into NSR in late May after 19 years of AF, approx 10 persistent/ constant.This was 5 months after 3rd ablation but none of us are sure if it was the ablation or not as the EP was convinced I'd go straight back into AF after that, which I did. Interestingly I was off all meds at the time and still am.
Had an 8 hr run of AF last week but only one so far.
So glad you are in normal SR for so long now, though it is depressing when there is another attack for many hours. I have never really understood AF but have had palpitations all my life; I can remember having to stop in a playground when I was only seven or eight because of my heart doing funny things. But I went on to be a good runner in my teens at cross country and the mile.
I only started suffering badly in 1995 when it was just episodes of AF but until recently after a stroke and now at 77 it has become persistent,, As you say it is a strange beast and I am grateful however to be as well as I am without periods of racing heartbeat like so many other people here.
Many thanks. Hope its a good sign for you too. Even if temporary relief. I think it does the heart good to have a wee break 😊I developed AF in my late 20s. No known reason. But, like you, struggled physically prior to that. Have been active (played rugby, boxing, running, gym etc) over the years but it never came easy, always struggled to regulate breath and heart rate. I tend to go easier on myself now and enjoy tai chi, walking, swimming, pilates. All achievable and all enjoyable. Take it easy! 😊
This has happened to me a couple of times when I take my BP. Amazing and it happens at various odd times. However I have sometimes taken a reading with the BP machine which shows no AF and then used the 6 lead Kardia and that still shows I am in AF.
That's interesting as it shows the BP machine is not entirely reliable as an indicator, it just shows that there are no obvious signs of palpitations at the time. Rather confirms what the docs say to me but I was reluctant for a long time to admit I was in what they call permanent AF. Luckily the beta blocker controls the rate very well in my case.
Hi Is your blood pressure monitor one that as ECG on it so it transfers to a app on your phone and stores it or is it just for BP and heart beat This is why you will get two different readings Kardia watch as that built in but ordinery BP monitors don’t There are machines now on the market that do They are dearer I have both and both read the same Just a thought
My BP machine does have an AF monitor and was bought recently. It is an Omron. I am generally in permanent low rate AF. Its just the odd occasion that I take my BP - which I take once a week on a Sunday morning and the BP monitor doesn't show AF but by the time I take the cuff off and use the Kardia 6 lead it shows AF. I have even taken my BP on my Omron machine and it hasn't shown AF and then done it again immediately and it shows AF. Its just a funny occurrence and doesn't concern me at all.
What is strange, is that after reading your post and responses, being here in the US and reading them later than in the UK, I've noticed a difference too in my heart after having the same weather conditions recently. I've been walking in the MetroParks regularly now that it's cool and sunny, and my weekly heart readings (that I send to my EP) have recently shown no PACs which were the norm for me. I'm thrilled to say the least -- and very glad for yours too!
Great to hear that you are feeling better too. Unfortunately, I am back to the normal problems this afternoon, and interestingly, the weather is awful again with rain, dark clouds and a cold wind! Maybe we are all good weather people! Perhaps we should all monitor our changing condition correlated with weather and sunshine etc and see if it is actually a real effect. I would not be surprised if it actually is a factor. I hope it's still sunny over where you are! 😘
Ahh, so sorry yours came back with the bad weather. I agree; we should monitor our hearts-corresponding-to-weather conditions. Maybe present the results to our EPs!
I have permanent AFib (the local cardios all prefer to say persistent, but its now been nearly all the time for 20 years) - and the resulting heart beat is very irregular but slow (resting under 50). Qual of life fine.
When I exercise hard my heart rate goes up to 120 or so, and becomes much more even. For the next couple of hours it drops back to about 60 but stays very regular, then back down to 50 and irregular. I still feel fine. One EP Cardio calls this even hour or three sinus rhythm, the other firmly says not. I say it is what it is.
Own choice, but had no ablation or meds. The specialists test me ea 2 years.
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