I have PAF but for 2 years I have had 1 episode (after long haul flight & jet lag). Then on 8 August, & since, I have had trigenimy PAC & I am now noticing a few AF short episodes thrown in along with some normal sinus rhythm (not much normal SR). The PACs feel permanent 😤 & are very unpleasant.
I use my Apple Watch to monitor. I can see on the ‘inconclusive’ readings they are Trigenimy PAC. From reading of earlier posts from you helpful lot, I fully appreciate the difficulty my watch must be having determining this craziness! & yes I am one of those people that needs information & envy those that can just crack on!
I am just looking at the wellvue 24 hour & kardi 6l trying to decide what to go for? I understand Kardia won’t tell me about the trigenimy?
My usual management plan is a PIP but in this situation my AF is very intermittent (unlike my previous AF episodes that do not self convert without intervention). Right now I don’t feel like I have a plan. Waiting on both GP & cardiologist & as we know those NHS wheels turn slowly.
It feels like this new rhythm is here to stay. I’m feeling very sad 😔 about that having been so well for 2 years. I also go away to Spain next Wednesday & am feeling rather anxious about this change in my rhythm.
Thank you for reading Rachel 🥰
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I have both the KardiaMobile 6L and the Wellue 24hr ECG Monitor. They are very different devices. I use the Kardia reactively i.e. when I want to check whether I am having an AF episode and testing for when it ends (duration and frequency of AF episodes is useful indicator of how my AF is going). It's quick and easy to use - the whole exercise takes minutes.
The Wellue I tend to use proactively i.e. not in AF but do a random recording overnight to see whether any issues arise while sleeping that I might not be aware of. It takes a bit of effort to organise (chest strap or sticky pads) as device needs to be charged up beforehand, positioned correctly, ensure good contact (moisten contact area if using strap) and check recording ok (LED flashes with heartbeat). Then when you end recording by removing device, it needs to be connected to PC to download recording and opened in the software you have to previously downloaded and installed. Recording can then be submitted for AI analysis and you have to wait for result, which for me is usually less than 10 minutes. The report that's produced provides statistics on heart function e.g. HR and Atrial and Ventricular PVC, couplets, Runs, Bigeminy and Trigeminy, Bradycardia etc, including hourly statistics and HRV related stats.
There's also a complete ECG recording, sample ECG strip(s) of key event(s) and conclusions from the recordings. Obviously like other Smart devices, it's not always right in its interpretation of ECG events and can be thrown off by artifacts in the recording. However, you have the complete ECG saved and can readily find sections you might want to send to your cardiologist/EP to confirm or otherwise whether there's a real issue requiring attention.
The Wellue can also be used reactively i.e. when you're "feeling something" but you need to be organised and there's a lot more work involved than the Kardia.
My cardiologist hadn't heard of the Wellue device when I saw him earlier this year. I bought the Kardia a few years ago when he told me about it.
The Kardia is great but I don't know whether it will provide a great deal more than your Apple Watch unless you pay for the paid service as well. Others might have to advise on that as I don't use the paid service.
PS if you're thinking of the Wellue you'll need to have a device to run their application on. When I got mine they didn't have a mobile app i.e. needed a PC (I have several and it didn't run properly on Windows 11 but worked ok on Windows 10). It's been several months so it might be available on other platforms now but you should check whether whatever you have is compatible)
Thank you so much for your detailed response. Is the wellvue usable with a smart phone do you know? My work laptop doesn’t let you install software hence my question. I’m going to look into the Kardia subscription to see the added benefits.
Google "Wellue 24" and choose the Wellue page for the device for details.There appears to be a mobile app, which you can use for up to 30 minute recording. I don't know how it compares to PC program I use except PC handles up to 24 hour recording. I suspect mobile app only has basic features but I've never used it - it either didn't exist when I bought my device or i wasnt aware.
The new 24/72 Hour Wellue device appears to have the AI analysis reports function in mobile app. I only have older 24 hour model.It mentions app to look for in Google Play store, which is for Android. If you have iPhone you'll need to check whether Apple app available.
Suggest you research app functionality before buying, including seeing if any members use the app and their thoughts etc.
I love my Wellue. I have a Kardia as well, but my Wellue that records up to 5 minutes does work just with my phone and is excellent at diagnosing my Atrial Bigeminy and PACs. My EP used the readings to diagnose the SVT/Bigeminy and schedule another ablation.
Thanks again Megan. I bought the Kardia 6l & the subscription. I may still buy the Wellvue too. The ECGs today show SVT/begeminy - I know I have been in this now constant for over a month! Unpleasant. 😢
As I review for a certain large online retailer, I am lucky to have been able to try several... I think Kardia is the the best "sorted" and is from an American company that knows what it is about; but it doesn't tell you much more than you know from the truly excellent Apple Watch and the tenner a month for so-called "Advanced Determinations" is not far from pointless.
The one I am using now, and have come to far prefer over Kardia and even the Wellue AI handheld (not the 24-hour AI version, which is uniquely useful) is a new model called the Contec PM20. This is only available online from their Europe office but is also available as the new Emay 6-lead ECG. It has a lovely clear screen, can take a 6-lead ECG and has an on-board instant AI "diagnosis" that also can be read on a mobile phone, PC or laptop. The range of diagnoses is quite long (inc. AF, PAC, PVC, couplet, triplet, etc.). It's also well priced with a small discount making it, if I recall, ~£85.
The Wellue (as with all, really, inc. Kardia) can get caught out if you have a "left bundle branch block", as I have, and can even worryingly mis-report atrial arrhythmias as being ventricular. The Contec avoids this trap and more useful just reports these as "arrhythmia". The Kardia reports, very frustratingly, "NSR with Wide QRS" despite my staring at a bunch of ectopic beats.
I have similar symptoms to you by the sounds of it, but with more frequent AF. Keep in mind that as awful as these non-AF arrhythmias feel, they are all from the atrium, and are, as a result, said to be "benign". Of course, the ventricles can't completely ignore the chaos up above with missed beats and so on, but from a long term health point of view, the atrial misbehaviour is not going to lead to anything horrible for most people (or so I am reliably informed).
Steve, I'm sure you must have mentioned this before, so apologies for going over old ground, but what is the max duration of ecg recordable with the Contec PM20?
And does it have an option to use electrode contacts for overnight recording?
It is its weakness, being only 30sec, with only finger contact. It does take several seconds to start properly and quieten down the electrical noise with me, too, at times, but that is me, as I know from other ECGs I have taken (the Contec begins reading immediately but in red, then turning to green once it stabilises and starts counting the 30 seconds).
Thanks Steve so helpful. I did go with kardia 6l with subscription for now. My apple readings remain inconclusive so at least I’m getting some readings rather than a blind situation. Maybe for some people they have become well versed in reading the beats, but I’m just learning. My PAF has been present 4 years now & id just got my head around that & now additional things SVE/trigeminy. I think the devices go some way in feeling reassured which is all I need right now.
Well - that’s how I feel about them. Perhaps many do and you’re so much younger. My trusty Apple Watch is the one I use first (just now, in fact - bumpety bumpety bump just began…)! Then the Contec / Kardia or whatever. They are strangely comforting.
For me, it was the Kardia not the Watch that drove me to frustration and disappointment.
In truth… I don’t really need an ECG to tell me what I can feel, but I do need that comfort.
Hi Rachel, what you describe is similar to what I have had for 6 months now, so I wouldn't worry too much about going away; assuming of course you have no other comorbidities which may complicate things.
I have Lone PAF historically and have just been on 200mgs Flecainide and this year started Edoxaban. My cardiologist assures me that at my age of 70 my heart rate is unlikely to develop into tachycardia but on my request he gave me Bisoprolol to be taken if essential as a PIP.
I imagine your cardiologist and any referral to an EP will require some substantive data and having just had it I would recommend a Cardioscan 48hr Beatbox monitor. Delivered to you and collected, it provides comprehensive data with a brief report (ie not blinding you with science) which worked for my follow up cardiologist appointment and has now been sent to an EP for discussion.
I did this privately as NHS waiting lists just increase my anxiety (cost of monitor around £400).
Hey thanks for response. I’ve had lots of tests/scans back in 2021. Ready for surgery scheduled 2022, mutually agreed to put on hold (as I can’t have ablation) as at time of consultation I was asymptomatic. My PAF was 2-3 times per week then & I don’t self convert. 😢 but I have only had 2 episodes of AF in 12 months. But this last month I definitely feel a change!
Just to add to the above mention about "a new 24/72 hour Wellue device", there are actually 2 different versions of the same new model. One for up to 24 hours, and the other for up to 72 hours, and the prices differ. The Wellue website can be confusing.
I am also interested in discovering whether these new models are able to be used effectively via the App only, as I have no laptop, and I have so far concluded that you really do need a laptop to get best value from these devices. On the website, the new models do offer a "limited AI Report" via the App alone, but it seems only to be a short summary report which cannot be further "investigated" as occurs when you have the downloaded software on a computer. My investigations however are a work in progress.
I have come to the same conclusion i.e. the app doesn't produce the detailed reports. Need PC or Mac for that."AI analysis by App can only obtain simple analysis results, and detailed reports still need to be obtained by AI analysis on the computer side."
However. I'm interested to know what the App produces. It might still be quite useful information
Yes, I'm currently in contact with a Member who just bought the 72 hour model, and in a week or so I should know more about exactly what the App gives. But not looking good so far.
However, I was disappointed to learn that Wellue are now offering a Premium Service which requires a subscription fee. Free for 1 week initial trial, then £20 per 3 months, or £70 per year. Nothing about fees on the website when I last looked or if the Premium Service is restricted only to the new models. And I'm also wondering now if the free comprehensive reports and investigations available previously via laptop software will remain. Wellue Premium offers extra charts and analyses etc., but how useful will that be for a particular Wellue customer is an important question. I am just getting second hand reports, so hopefully others will describe the details of this new Wellue service first hand to inform the Forum properly.
Attn: Ppiman , who I know will be interested in this development. Maybe he has or can obtain more details for the Forum members.🤔
Sure will my pigley (or is it wigley?🤔) friend, but no feedback yet. Even Ppiman has so far ignored my mention of the Premium Service and its charges, although he does seem now to have more interest in a different device, the Contec PM20.
Yes - my Contec sees these sometimes as "missed beats" and fails to count them, giving the illusion of a low heart rate. I also have a bundle block (LBBB) which is what causes this, I gather. Do you have similar?
Just to add to the comments in favor of the Kardia single lead ( per my cardio that's all you need ) for the most part it has been helpful once I learned what the rhythms look like because it can often give you an "unclassified" reading outside of NSR, depending on what's happening. ie. bigeminy & trigeminy runs will be classified like this. Sometimes it will read "possible AF". So that's where knowing what your looking at is to your advantage & you won't need to pay for additional services. I paid for Kardia's Care program & it was a waste of money when I needed it most. When I was new to PAF & anxious with each unclassified event I used this service & it was going to be 24 hours before the cardiologist gave me a report I realized it was no consolation. By the time I would hear from them the situation would have either gotten better or worse, I wanted the reassurance or advice while it was happening.
Kardia 1L is also very convenient during travel, sync's with my smart phone so I have all the data to send or show to my medical & EP cardio. The added advantage is the doctors teach you so much you can apply at home to reassure yourself. So the device is great but save your money on the care program...lol
Too late for what ? You already purchased the Kardia care program ? Just cancel it. The best advice is to know what the different rhythms look like yourself so when the device says "unclassified" you'll know which one's are benign & which need an MD assessment.
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