Apparently as human beings we are programmed to look for causes. It seems to be a stage many of us Afibbers go through despite the good advice of those with more knowledge and experience. So I thought it could be helpful to share my own journey through the folly of myth making and lost causes. And I’m talking Causes here, NOT Triggers, being more the persistent type of gal myself.
It’s a bit of a long story and so pass it by unless it rings a bell for you.
When I was first diagnosed with AF a year ago by a registrar at my GP practice she told me it was an age thing, a sign of wear and tear. Nothing the GP surgery couldn’t keep an eye on, monitor and serve with appropriate medication when needed. Well, I wasn’t having that. I was fit, and only 70. When is age ever the cause of anything?
Having pushed to get something done and seek out a “cure” I began looking into the “real” reason for my AF. I had spent the previous year doing more exercise than I’d ever done in my life (I’ve never been a sporty type) because I wanted to go into my 70s with a healthy start. I’d even joined the Ramblers and god forbid a keep fitness class! I was really beginning to enjoy this thing called “fit” so I certainly wasn’t going to land on that as a cause!
So then I was left looking at events that occurred in the immediate timeframe of when the AF started. More sinister kind of things, like fish and chips. I had just had a row with my husband when I noticed the first bumbled heartbeats. So it was my anger, my upset that made me ill! A minor step away from saying my husband caused my AF, but luckily I’m quite good at deep breathing!
Then the penny dropped. I’d just had a booster jab and flu vaccination at the same time. Such a nice easy thing to settle on. I could forget all I knew about spurious correlations, how crime rates soar whenever ice cream sales go up. Forget the laws of chance. This had happened to me. Even my EP, who also explained how real science takes many more painstaking years to uncover “causes” - even he said some shrapnel was inevitable. So I was able to hang on to that one. Careful who I told for fear of feeding conspiracy theories etc. That’s until a friend recently helped me look back to when I first said I needed to see a GP about my heart not feeling quite right at night. I was at her house and we have a date for it, a good month before the vaccinations.
I don’t want to downplay the very real triggers we all experience differently for AF. I just want to show how pointless it is to look for single causes and to exorcise this tendency in myself.
Maybe if I could be 30 again I wouldn’t have AF. Maybe if I’d decided to grow old gracefully, slowing down instead of trying to speed up, my heart wouldn’t have rebelled. Maybe if I'd started regular relaxation sessions sooner, meditated more, been in one of those couples that “never argue” (haha). Or maybe if I’d turned down a combined vaccination my heart which may have been in paroxysmal AF might not have become persistent. What’s the point? The truth is it’s probably all those things and more, so I’m glad that unlike me real science is slow, methodical, continually tests itself and questions its own conclusions on an ongoing basis.
Thanks for listening, here’s an interesting article about how we make myths around diseases and conditions:
I know exactly why I have it - it's genetic, my father my four sisters my son and niece (those are the ones I know of) all inherited a faulty gene responsible for it. There is a list available of the genes implicated. There's nothing can be done about it but to just accept it and take the medicine. Mine is asymptomatic and with the exception of my one , who has palpitations, so is that of my other relatives - all diagnosed by chance. ! with the exception of my son, who was young and an extreme sportsman when diagnosed have needed an ablation.
I am pretty sure that mine is genetic too. Sisters, cousins, and a history of stroke on both sides of the family. Never had any sort of test offered though. I have warned my children to look out for it.
Yes, my dad, his sister and his brother all had it. My cousin from the uncle with it has it too. There are probably more relatives on his side with it. Those are just the ones I know about.
I was fit and active when mine started. Although now I think that the panic attacks I thought I was getting in my 30's when I was getting divorced were in fact early AF attacks, probably brought on by the stress of the divorce. Then it left me alone for a bit (that I was aware of) and came back with determination in my 40's, early 40's at that. I sometimes set it off with hard exercise (extreme exercisers really don't know what they are putting themselves in line for).
So with that history behind me I managed to avoid the endless searching for a reason. I did give up caffeine at first and still largely avoid it if I can, but I'm not strict anymore. What's the point? I'm in permanent AF and have been for several years now. No ablation offered, probably because I'm too fat owning to also inheriting thyroid problems from my mother's family! The parents really did gift me a pair of unwanted presents there.
Yes, my son was 36 when he had it done and is 53 now and has had no repetition of AF so far, even though he continued with his canoeing and white water rafting. Now he mostly hikes, although he ran a marathon a few months ago with no problem. We live in South Africa where EPs are in short supply, so he had to go to Cape Town for the op. Whether it will return when he's older (must of us were diagnosed later in life) remains to be seen.
Hi Rainfern, that's just your point of view after having experienced AF for one year, isn't it? You're not actually stating a proven fact are you, because there's no way you could prove that what you say is correct?
I do however appreciate your opinion on the causes of AF, as I do with all the varied subjects we discuss on this forum and thank you for giving it. It should promote an interesting response.
I'm 18 years down the line with AF and must state that I totally disagree with your belief, as I know that artificial sweeteners have always caused my AF attacks. It took me absolutely years to discover that and my goodness I was really over lading my poor body with them. They were in the lemonade I drank, fruit yogurts, I put them in my tea, they were in the gum I chewed after lunch and also in the desserts where I worked. I now avoid all artificial additives in food and drink and have been fine for many years. I'm told I'm in constant AF, just taken my pulse twice and it was 73bpm each time. I do take 25mg of Metoprolol morning and night
Having said on this forum many times, that artificial sweeteners and additives caused my AF attacks, I can never quite understand why other people don't avoid them too. If I had bad AF attacks now, well my goodness I'd take notice if someone told me of a cure. Of course my cause could be very different to those of others.
I have to say Jean, I certainly wasn’t having artificial sweeteners and I developed AF, so for me it wasn’t a factor. I never even took sugar in my tea so I wasn’t going to be using sweetners. I’m not saying it’s not a factor in your case. It may well be a factor for a lot of people, but “quitting artificial sweeteners” isn’t going to apply to everyone. Having said that, the fewer artificial additives and sweeteners people consume the better. Even if they see no changes to their AF, it’s better for one’s general health.
Hi Jean, what I’m trying to say is that for me a hunt for causes had no answers, so of corse it is just a point of view. I don’t think it would have been useful for me to stick with any one thing that I identified as a cause, although each has influenced my life choices. So I take things easier, I meditate more regularly, I don’t get two vaccinations together. I don’t mean to suggest other people shouldn’t identify single causes. If enough people do so then eventually it may attract research and possible antidotes.
I have always avoided artificial sweeteners as well as limiting sugar, highly processed foods and additives.
It's totally individual. I have no issues with artificial sweeteners other than that they taste horrible and so I avoid them for that reason.
My AF is inherited. There are no food or drink triggers (or there were not, now I'm in permanent AF I can't tell anymore). The thing that might trigger them for me was stress and exercise. Having since discovered I'm hypothyroid as well, I suspect that the exercise link was early thyroid related. I struggle with my FT3 levels and exercise depletes FT3 fast. There is literature about to show that low thyroid is an AF trigger as well as high levels of T3 in the blood but doctors only focus on the high levels and terrify their patients with stories of AF and bone loss if they ask for an increase in medication.
If people seem to ignore your advice re sweeteners Jean, it's not because they don't think it worked for you. It's that they don't feel they have anything to worry about with them, if they are consumers of them. We are all different.
It's quite strange how we are all so very different with regards to AF. Stress is certainly a sure trigger for so many people. If I hear a noise in the night my heart rate takes off super fast, fortunately it calms immediately I do. I think if anyone actually broke into my house at night, then my prolonged fast heart rate would kill me. My house was burgled many years ago when I was at work, so that brings home to me the reality of it happening again.
I too was discovered to have an underactive thyroid, but mine was caused by taking the drug Amiodarone. My GP was hoping that my hormone levels would recuperate naturally and I was thinking that my extreme tiredness was all part of AF. Then my nearest main hospital did a thyroid test and rang my surgery to say that I needed to go on Levothyroxine right away, that drug gave me my life back.
I should add that in the lead up to getting diagnosed with AF, I had really upped the stress levels. Not anxiety-wise, just doing too much. I ran a business, kept a house and large garden and was a member of the board of a theatre and also head of stage management. I was stage managing 3 or 4 productions a year. That equated to 6 weeks of rehearsals 4 times a week and then 2 weeks of solid performance. I had about 45 minutes each way drive to get there. I would go straight from work to the theatre. Sometimes I'd eat a sandwich first, but often I would have some dinner when I finally got home, around midnight.
I certainly burned the canal at both ends. I loved it though.
I am not a believer in any single “root cause” for any diagnosed condition. I believe that it’s more likely that there are many contributing factors over many years which can create a cascade of physical and metabolic changes which eventually result in symptoms. There’s our genetics, the impact of environment and behaviour on our epigentics, our mother’s health during pregnancy, the environment we grew up in, how our immune system develops, how our gut micrbiome develops, and on and on. The predisposition to AF may well have been lifelong, and particular stressors along the way may have accelerated its appearance. My arrhythmias developed after a viral illness, but I also had a lifetime of iron overload that may well have predisposed me. Once AF develops people do have triggers, but I think the constant search for rogue foods overlooks the impact of poor sleep, stress or even too much screen time. I think there’s something to be said about coincidence and jumping to erroneous conclusions. The only thing I wish people wouldn’t do is blame themselves for developing AF, as if they have done something “wrong”.
So maybe for many of us with all these prevailing and underlying conditions it only took one small (or big) trigger to set off an arrhythmia. And I think for me that will always be a needle in the haystack. Thanks Autumn for these thoughts.
There are so many factors beyond our control, and epigenetics has shown that genes can be switched on and off through various mechanisms, whether environmental or the influence of lifestyle. Even shift work can wreak havoc on the body over time and will cause some people to develop long term health conditions. We’re not all the same. We all metabolise fats, sugars, proteins, calcium, etc very differently. We all have a different gut microbiome and some people will have irreversible changes caused by many courses of antibiotics, and that can influence things like systemic inflammation, and that in turn can have an impact on our vascular system, our brains, our joints, and lots of other things. Even our dental health is now linked to to other conditions including CVD. So I don’t see how attributing a long term condition to a simple root cause is quite realistic. In some cases it is of course.
If someone has a clear trigger for their AF then by all means avoid it, but it’s unfortunate when someone picks one ingredient of one meal, seemingly at random, out of everything else and all the other individual ingredients they may have eaten in the previous 24-48 hours when it may have been their neighbour and his electric drill going all day, or their barking dog waking them up at 5am, or they are sleep deprived, or they are fighting off a virus they’re not aware of, or they were stuck in traffic etc. I certainly don’t advocate all sorts of additives , and there are known triggers like alcohol and caffeine. But people shouldn’t berate themselves for an AF episode. It’s not a moral failure
I quite agree, Autumn, that for the majority it is an accumulation of insults to the heart over many years that can lead to arrhythmia. It maybe one final thing that triggers that first episode - for me that was over-exerting myself digging out old rose bushes - but I believe the actual causes of my heart having a predisposition to developing an arrhythmia were multiple and varied and go back many years.
I'm inclined to agree with you - the cascade effect is real. I know that my first episode began immediately after over exercising having not exercised for several weeks because I'd been under the weather, but I feel pretty sure that that was just a final straw thing.
Ironically, the only strong health (or lack thereof) history in my family is one of heart attacks and angina. Consequently I've always paid a lot of attention to eating healthily and staying fit and my heart fitness (according to my Apple watch) is high, my BP and HR are low normal and I have no furring of the arteries or issues with the structure of my heart. So AFib comes along......
This is a very interesting discussion. I too have searched high and low for causes for my AF. The most likely thing I’ve found, looking back, was a period in my life where a number major emotional traumas - or ‘heartbreaks’ - followed one on top of the other. Another thought, and please forgive me if this is going over old ground for some, but has there been any research on the impact of menopause on AF? I’d be really interested to know.
Yes, I've had major heartbreak too. Hmmm makes you think. My brother killed in road accident, mum died young and within months of being diagnosed with cancer, sister attacked by man with knife. I could go on and on. Does everyone have major heartbreak like that throughout their lives?
I think there’s more heartbreak than we realise and it carries on through generations. But I like to think that at least it can help people develop compassion and understanding. Maybe those very sad events in your life influenced what you gave to others in your work?
My AF started immediately after OHS for an aortic valve replacement which I was born with, fourteen years ago. I have suffered AF on and off ever since and was recently fitted with a Pacemaker. Apparently, if you are born with congenital heart disease you can be more prone to having AF.
Sorry to hear that you got AF on top of your other heart issue. It all seems so unfair.
I was born with a congenital heart defect and had it fixed age 15. My EP says he doesn’t think that had anything to do with the AF 55 years later, but I spoke with another EP who thought it probably did!
Yes, an interesting and useful conversation. For me the cardiologist also told me it was probably age (67), when I questioned if the fact my older brother had similar problems a few years before was relevant he only said "possibly" (in Czech 😉) and asked if I'd ever had Rheumatic Fever and when I said that no, not as far as I knew, his response was that I could have had it even years ago and not known and it could be a cause. My non-scientific brain tells me that from what I've read in various places that it was probably partly genetic, partly due to the fact that like my brother I did a lot of long-distance cycling and partly age catching up with me. Anyway that's what I tell myself and it helps.
Also it seems to me that finding a cause or causes for our conditions (we are all different in some ways, aren't we?) is part of coming to terms with and accepting our situations; and that is important for us because it is necessary so that we can get on with life. Certainly that has been the biggest difficulty for me.
Sorry being so long, but I think you have raised an important point. Good luck to all on your journeys.
I’d not heard the rheumatic fever link! I think you’re right we are all so different, and so too are the views of various medics based on what they have chanced to read, their area of interest and what patients they’ve seen!
My bike is stood in the hall waiting for me to get back in the saddle following the ablation procedure and I’m not going to start thinking cycling was ever a cause of my AF! It’s a nice harmless bike and when I come to hills I just turn up the electric power and we just soar to the top. Highly recommended!
Ablation was 29th Sept (think that’s 5 weeks ago!) for persistent AF. I was in NSR for a week or two after ablation then persistent AF returned. My brilliant local arrhythmia team had me back in 2 weeks ago for a CV and I’ve been in wonderful NSR ever since. 2 weeks is the longest I’ve been in NSR for over a year!!
I had no idea, despite all the good advice and AF info sheets, that I would feel so knocked out and tired after the procedure. But I’m so glad to have taken this route and it has given me time to do a lot of nothing and reading and thinking and plenty meditation, mindfulness and breathing etc and time to write long posts on this forum!!!🤣🤣🤣
The analogy I always have in my mind is that of a glass that gets filled up with 'AF causes' if it gets too full with one or usually multiple reasons even a small extra reason becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back and it overflows - hey presto you get AF.
The way I have dealt with this is to throw the kitchen sink at a cure, which unfortunately in my case (as my glass was already overflowing considerably) had to include a drug, Flecainide. The good news is it has worked for 10+ years.
Whilst my stroke with AF and finding papillary thyroid cancer was clearly an important event.
But was it more than that reign of events which introduced me to AF.
On the early morning of the stroke I received a followup from Northshore Hospital where my surgeon Dr Eva Fong works publicly as well as private work mostly for ACC Accident and Emergency Corporation, repeating that I was out of their area. Noone was allowed to remove the TVT kits containing the ugly, ragged mesh of Johnson &. Johnson.
I was worrying about the above situation.
Last year ACC admitted that my surgeon proved that I had damage and I could have Dr Fong remove it.
So that was an additional event happening.
I still think it is fruitful if you can jot down events around your AF episodes.
Unfortunately my AF was rapid and persistent.
But now after a private H/Specialist stepped in I don't have rapid but control of my Day H/Rate.
At night regardless of meds the 24-hr heart monitor shows Night average 47 of over 3 sessions.
AF can be caused by thyroid acting up, inflamation, alcohol, over exercising, etc. Then there is the Vagal artery position.
It is important to have a holistic healthy condition.
We must be careful of supplements too.
Vaccinations - There were no measles vaccine when I was a youngster. I was checked a couple of years ago and I show that I still have my immunity.
Hi Rainfern. I loved reading your post, it made me chuckle and in these trying times of poor world relationships, we can all do with a good chuckle, it’s good for heart and soul. Your post also made me recall when I was in my 50s (many moons ago), I presented my orthodontist with an unusual request. I laugh now thinking how I could possibly have taken myself so seriously let alone how my orthodontist didn’t think I’d gone mad! I have had Menieres Disease for more years than I like to remember and I recall one particular attack lasting months and researching high and low for the reason behind this horrible disease. (Now this has me wondering, could the tablets I take for the Menieres be the cause of my AF? However, I digress, note to self, come back to that later)! How I thought I could do better than the researchers, I don’t know. However, many books later, I came up with the answer - too many amalgam dental fillings - these would need careful replacement (I read) ensuring I did not inhale the debris as the affected teeth were refilled with a more natural compound. Drastic I know (especially as I had 7) but I had it in my head it had to be done. Not only did it have to be done, it had to be done on the day following the new moon! This is how ridiculously easy it was for me to become so absorbed in facts, figures and witch craft at that time. Well I had the work done and the orthodontist humoured me and carried out the work as planned on the day following the night of the new moon. Did it make a difference? Well no of course not and 27 years later I’ve resigned myself to the fact I will never find the answer. (I’m still hopeful the amalgam filling replacements will work though - fingers crossed) 🤞🏼 Have a super day everyone 🐝
I remember an amalgam filling scare - wasn’t there something to do with mercury? Sorry the replacements didn’t work for your menieres, but who knows what else the natural fillings may have warded off! And maybe the planetary alignment wasn’t quite right at the time ….
My neighbour went through all that, (not the new moon part) and had all her amalgam fillings removed and replaced because she thought they were making her ill. She was always doing something or other to detox etc. In actual fact she was perimenopausal/menopausal and just needed some oestrogen. But she would never take HRT because some doctor in the distant past had told her she could not have it due to her great aunt having breast cancer. New research has completely debunked that idea now but she still won't listen.
Dentists must love middle aged women and their crazy ideas. More money into the coffers.
Well maybe the dental procedure being done after the New Moon did help a little! Just kidding -- well maybe not -- but if following your own theories makes a person feel better, then more power to it. I went that route too in the past, by the way.
A very interesting post Rainfern, thank you. As you and others have said, there is a multiplicity of reasons why AF develops, it seems, although I have spent more time than I should have done in the past searching for that holy grail of THE cause. Needless to say I didn’t find it😀
For me, I think it has been a combination of bereavement; menopause; rheumatoid arthritis and the rampant inflammation that caused; lifelong anxiety and genetics, as both parents had AF. On top of that, I had very bad allergies as a child and was on antihistamine medication for many years. One of those medications, I recently discovered, was withdrawn from the market some years ago due to adverse effects on the heart! Given that lot no wonder I couldn’t find a single cause! I consider myself lucky that AF is all I’ve got😊 As Czech Mate says, coming to terms with and accepting the condition is key. That one has been a bit of a struggle for me in the past but ironically, the thing I most feared - persistent AF - has now happened and that change has allowed me to finally reach a place of peace with AF.
Apologies for the ramble! Good luck to all on their AF journey, TC
I do find it comforting 3cats to hear how people come to terms with Afib - you, Jean, Bob and many others with long time experience. Thank you for your reply and hope you keep on feeling at peace - that’s where I’d want to be too.
'coming to terms with and accepting '.....you're so right. First episode in March 2023 , 2 since, all cardioverted, researching scarey ablation. I'm trying to process it all , but still grieving my carefree life.
Hi Sunlovah, It is a scary thing when one’s ticker starts acting up , I’ve been there, believe me! Like Jeanjeanie has mentioned in some of her previous posts, I’ve spent plenty of nights in AF wondering if I would wake up in the morning 😊It’s very early days for you yet , of course but it will get easier to deal with in time and there’s plenty of support available here in the meantime. I still do all the stuff I used to do but just a little more slowly and listen to what my body wants, rather than driving it on regardless, as I used to do. Life is still good and I’ve no doubt yours will be too , whatever treatment route you decide to go down.
Thank you for your reply. For first time I woke up from anesthetic yesterday crying 'I can't do this anymore ' ( I know that I'm ok with CV). It's the not knowing when it'll flip, frightened to make plans. Your reply is reassuring, hopefully I'll get there, after all, I have to . Take care
I’m sorry to hear that Sunlovah. I feel for you as paroxysmal AF can be a rollercoaster for sure. When I did have those despairing moments I would remind myself that it won’t kill me (and it won’t so long as you are anti-coagulated if appropriate) and there are far worse things I could have going on. It’s not a lot of help, I know.
My biggest breakthrough came when I read a book by Dr Claire Weekes on anxiety, or nervous tension as she calls it. I’ve been a lifelong anxiety sufferer and that had a field day when AF turned up, as you can imagine! However, whilst reading that book I had a lightbulb moment and finally realised that fighting anxiety, as I have done lifelong, is exhausting and not effective, whereas accepting and allowing it to be present has been transformative for me. It’s only taken me 58 years to get to this point though! I hope you’ll get there a lot sooner😀x
I think there are many reasons for developing AF and personally won't spend any more time searching. Like others I have accepted that it's here and just want to get on with life. As some have said inflammation may be to blame as I have had multiple 'bad chests' because of asthma for the past fifteen or so years apart from all the other meds that I've taken for various ills. All these may have had an effect, plus bereavements etc. So who really knows as we are all different. Best. wishes for us all..
Just want to compliment you on your good sense. These things very seldom have an immediate 'cause' and trying to look for one is pointless; though finding things that avoid it getting worse is of course important.
In my case I always had palpitations even as young child when the doctor said it was a 'heart murmur' which was what they called such things in those days . But it didn't stop me having a really fit young life and doing lots of running, The AF started in my late 40s when I was burning the candle at both ends with lots of work, late nights and too much alcohol. After that I was on sotalol and aspirin and coped pretty well with an active relatively fit life in early retirement.
I don't know what caused the stroke to come along as I had been on a holiday walking in the mountains the previous autumn and just had worked hard getting the entire garden up together; so it came as a great surprise. But I had definitely moved into a more permanent form of AF without really noticing it
Now three years later I try to keep reasonably fit but I still cannot account for 'why me' and why the AF became such a major thing for me, or you, when we all know unfit, overweight people who have a terrible quality of life in terms of bad food and lack of exercise and yet they are in apparent good health! 🤣
Yes I agree the “why me?” factor is very strong and hard to get one’s head around!
I’m sorry to hear about your stroke, it sounds like you’ve made a good recovery and adapted well which is really a main part of what recovery is all about.
“I still cannot account for 'why me' and why the AF became such a major thing for me, or you, when we all know unfit, overweight people who have a terrible quality of life in terms of bad food and lack of exercise and yet they are in apparent good health! “
This illustrates my point about about having AF (or any other condition ) not being some sort of moral failure or a consequence of doing “bad” things. In our modern culture it’s as if good health is a reward for being “good” and doing all the “right” things but human biology is very complicated and it does go wrong, regardless of how “good” we are.
Thank you for highlighting this Autumn. As if there wasn’t enough pressures on us without carrying those hefty cultural messages! I’m going to cast them to the four winds!
Good luck! It’s not easy! I think we all have to develop the skills of mental self defence to protect us against all these negative cultural messages. Good health isn’t a particular “look” or body type, and living a virtuous life won’t guarantee anything either. The first time I went to the cardiology waiting room, there was such a varied cross-section of people there and most did not resemble the stereotypical image of the overweight, pot-bellied middle aged man. There were all ages, body types and ethnicities there.
We are all different and sometimes we not what starts AF and sometimes we don't. In my case I do. I'm 70 now and until 2011 I've lived with a hole in my heart and a heart murmur all my life. Apart from getting a bit breathless now and again I was OK. In 2011 I nearly died from appendicitis and it was in 2012 I had my first AF attack.
I did get my hole in the heart fixed when I was 15 but lived with a murmur til that time. It didn’t stop me climbing up Cader Idris mountain as a kid! Well done you living with it all those years.
What an excellent post. When you mentioned the booster / flu jabs I have to admit to thinking, "Hello...! Here we go". But no.
I think your registrar GP was right, I think AF, for us older ones, is a natural part of an age related degenerative heart process which is, perhaps, genetically determined, in the sense that the inflammatory processes of the body alter as we age according to a genetic "clock"; and those bring along with them what might be called forms of "autoimmune" conditions, of which there are many. I think these can be delayed by various means, but all of these ways are long term such as the way we live our life from pretty much birth: diet (perhaps even whether we were breast fed, or whether we spent years eating hydrogenated fats and modified starches), exercise, smoking and alcohol intake, and so on.
Thank you Steve I always appreciate your down to earth responses. I think the main reason I pushed for the ablation and CV procedures was a refusal to face the degenerative impact of aging, the outcome of which remains to be seen!
Oh yes, that will have stopped it in its tracks. Eternal youth shall be yours! 😉
Your post pretty much mirrored my own thought processes, though. It was so good I read it twice!!
I’m just reading your link about autism. What a crazy world we are in over that previously dreadful condition. The word has become such a modern catch-all for such a wide range of what would once be considered in the normal range of personality types that I feel sorry for those who truly do suffer with it. Much similar exists with other conditions such as depression and anxiety. I can well remember not that many years ago when “bipolar” became the celebrity illness to have.
In my own family, we have one notably autistic young man who will never be able to lead an independent life but we also now have three adults all trying really hard through their GPs and private consultants to be diagnosed as being “on the spectrum”, “autistic”, having “ADHD” and so on. Having known the three well for all of their lives, I despair at the road they are taking and why. And when I read their Facebook threads replete with others desperate for similar diagnoses, it adds to my wonder at the modern world.
That’s an interesting article (link below re posted by AutumnLeaves).
Your post made me laugh and I was tempted to ask if said family members were cisgender or non-binary, but that really would be showing up my confused elderly state.
I am up to speed on that side of modern life, but it took me some reading up to find out. Reading Twitter helps! Also, I read the controversy over an article written by the Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling and I found myself almost entirely in agreement with her views.
Breathing a sigh of relief that I’m not the only one to have noticed this. It feels like a very mixed up world, and I do worry for those who are very much affected while the ‘influencers’ seem to take over.
It’s the ones that dispense “health” advice that scare me, whether it’s shirtless men shouting in supermarkets or kooky ladies who “wand” their water. If you’re finding those people on your social media feeds it’s definitely time to do a “digital detox” 🤣
The ones who have them on their feeds are likely well past saving! 😳😉
A saving grace, such as it is, seems to me that such beliefs are - however loudly “shouted” via a keyboard - often little more than hot air and superficially held. The days of fervour and passion based on genuine interest, belief and study are becoming a thing of the past.
They are good for a laugh sometimes. But I find that if I watch more than a few minutes it very quickly becomes not funny at all. A bit worrying, actually. I tried watching an online conversation between a “viral infection” conspiracist and a scientific researcher and what started off as being quite ridiculous and risible became a bit frightening to realise that some people are really “out there”. 20 years ago, if you’d met someone like that at a bus stop, you’d have been blaming the “Care in the Community” policy for letting people slip through the net. 😱
Context is all. I know some of these people who will, given the right context, rise to the occasion but, in other contexts, will be hypocritical and unconcerned. It’s a funny world and one where serious people are far less common than once they were. My brother is cynical and has a strongly conspiracy style mindset but when push comes to shove, he would put all that to one side in an instant.
With these online personalities, the have to be a performer and they have to out-perform their rivals and opponents, and they have to get more people to follow them and some of that following will translate into sales, whether it’s pulverised liver supplements for the followers who can’t quite face eating raw liver every day, or magic wands that mysteriously transform your tap water. It just gets more and more ridiculous. The “virus infection” was a great way to recruit new followers who will buy the magic powders and potions, or pay for premium content, or even buy prescriptions for pharmaceuticals. And how do you keep your followers coming back for more? You just have to keep outperforming yourself. Sadly I think it makes mugs out of the followers, and that’s what I find quite disturbing.
I know one mother who is really struggling to look after her adolescent son who is nonverbal, still in nappies and has no sense of danger, and another couple whose adult son has had to go into full time residential care because they can’t continue to look after him because they are older now and have their own health challenges. I also wonder why some mature adults want to go doctor shopping at great expense so they can put themselves “on the spectrum” despite being able to participate fully in life. I do wonder about the role of social contagion at the more “normal” end of the spectrum.
Well said. The need to have a label for our ills and feelings is powerful. If I was younger I’d think hard about wanting such things though as even at a practical level, job applications, health and travel insurance and more could easily be affected.
Add to that that treatment is often largely ineffective and frequently expensive (private counselling and the like) and it’s could easily become a minefield to wade into.
I only had my formal diagnosis of AF last year and the nice young doctor told me that “it tends to become more common with age”. So it’s all my fault. How dare I grow old! If only I’d used more moisturiser! 🤣
I am on the journey towards the same conclusion. Having worked methodically through most of the suggested triggers without success it seems that for me it's down to genetics and age.Diagnosed with paroxysmal afib some two years ago, onset was shortly after my first covid jab with about 200 hrs in a month which rapidly reduced to between 0 and 4 hours a month until the next jab when the pattern was repeated. This continued until I had a sinovax jab which had no effect on the afib which continued at a couple of hours per month. Then two months ago the afib abruptly became persistent. My two siblings have afib and eventually pacemakers.
My experience would suggest that, for me, genetics predisposed me to afib but some things acted as triggers as I aged and on the verge of afib.
I’m learning so much from everyone’s posts here. In particular what you say about predisposition along with triggering factors. I find this hugely helpful, thanks for your contribution.
My atrial flutter seems also to be the culmination of years of ectopic beats. A cardiologist I saw way back in my twenties told me that with luck they’d lead to nothing much but might. Well, they did. My ablation might have cured the flutter but the ectopic beats, now with some occasional AF seem a fixture.
I think genetics plays a strong role in the development of AF or any disease for that matter. Have you seen people who totally abuse their bodies with smoking, alcohol, drugs, etc. and live into old age? You see people who smoke all their lives and never get cancer while others get cancer and die young.
For me, my grandmother had what I think was SVT where her heart would just out of the blue start racing for no obvious reasoning, causing her to suffer with it most of her life. At the time when she died in 1998 from a massive stroke, (probably not related to the SVT which doctors told her was not a serious heart problem), ablation, which probably would have cured her, was not an option. I developed both Atrial Tachycardia and Atrial Fibrillation when I was only age 38 and have had successful ablations (so far) for both in 2010 and 2011. However, I still suffer from ectopic heartbeats (PAC's and PVC's ) from time to time which I attribute to triggers such as stress and diet. Especially, this time of year during the upcoming holiday season, there is so much food that I tend to overindulge in. For me excess sugar in food is a real trigger. So if I want to reduce my ectopics, I have to avoid sugar and stress. I also am on a regimen of Cavedilol, a beta blocker, and Flecainide. The Flecainide has been a "life saver" as prior to it being prescribed, the ectopics were persistent.
Life is not fair when you see others eat and drink whatever they want with no complications. But I try and look at the positive side and say to myself it could be worse, and furthermore count my blessings from God that I'm as otherwise healthy as I am at age 68.
Hi Rainfern, Your post made me laugh. Always looking for triggers, and "why me". It's pointless really. But we keep on looking and trying. That's what we humans do. We will drive ourselves mad. We need to avoid the obvious things eg: sugary drinks, reduce alcohol, smoking, people that aggravate you....lol and just get on with life as best we can as difficult as it can be at times.
Excellent post. After searching for causes and triggers for twelve years and failing, I realized the beast shows up entirely out of the blue. That’s not to say one should not live a ‘clean’ life and limit anything that might cause the heart to race along. Also, meditative practices like yoga and tai chi help calm ones heart.
Let’s face it … humans are pattern-seeking primates and will even try to get messages from random noise. So let’s try limiting the vain search for causes and triggers (especially the vaccine conspiracy ones) and just lead a healthy and calm (boring?) life.
A good read, both your "essay" and attached article.....especially to the point is the reference to "shrapnel"! Even my cardiologist admits that sometimes "stuff" happens, and we really don't know why. All I can say is "I have it", and am being treated for it! The past doesn't matter! Now I will sit back and read all the replies/debates your post has generated! Will be a long morning!
Hi, Rainfern: All if the things you mentioned are stressors I think that stress is the main factor in AF. I too am in my 70s but have had way more stress in my life than I want to think about. When I think back I do wonder how I made it this far. what I have learned is, I now know by body and I know when I am being coerced by family to go against what is good for me. Here is an example: My husband, my adult son and myself go out to dinner, I make the statement that my body only wants some fresh food and nothing fried. I order a salad and a grilled chicken breast. My husband knowing my issues, keeps asking me if I want to split and order of onion rings. I keep saying no I do not want anything fried. (Fried foods are horrible and the oils restaurants use are horrible). I have to get mad and firm to get him to stop asking me. something so simple that should be enjoyable has to turn into a stress session over what I order and what I want to eat. One may say this doesn't sound so bad, but it is a culmination of being around the constant barrage of bad choices being pushed.
Personally, now that we are in our 70s it is time to only do what we want to do and when we want to do it, like exercise but don't go over board. A bike ride or a walk is great, but no heart attack hills and I found the route that is perfect. My adult son was trying to convince me to take a bike ride with him I refused knowing it would be way too long for me. when he came back he was exhausted. I said see I knew that was not going to be good for me.
Even riding in a car with someone who drives horribly or too fast is a stress and I will stay away from those situations.
Our bodies are a delicate balance and stress is known to disrupt that balance. It steals our energy and when that happens a cascade of other things happens in our bodies and bingo we are in AF.
My husband and I took a road trip to a hilly part of Wisconsin to see the colors and the GPS took us off on some really wild and wooly roads and my husband kept saying we are lost, where are we, and he kept saying that. I finally had to say you are stressing me out, we are not lost please sit back and enjoy the ride. As I love to drive on hilly and curvy roads it was a complete pleasure to me and we were going slow, no one around, it was very pleasant. I had to say several times please stop stressing me out.
Bottom line, set boundaries and don't let others, even family get away with nonsense to cause stress.
Hi Peaceful, this really rings a lot of bells for me, thanks for illustrating so clearly how small stressors build up into big ones.
I wish I had listened to my heart and set boundaries more clearly before I had Afib. Now, like you, I’m getting better at it out of necessity. Keep strong!
I think AF was and is the wake up call. I had a horrible espisode when I was in my 50s so I have felt with this a long time. Even way before that I had irrelugar heart beats. It started actually when my first son was born in the hospital right after giving birth and if that is not a stressor, nothing is. An irregular heart beat was detected and they kept me longer but never told me, I was also running a low grade fever which I will do under stress. Never said follow up would be in order, nothing.
Bottom line know your body, be you advocate and stand your ground with family or professionals. I am telling myself this too.
Well my AF was caused by an electrical gadget I used on my neck, my heart banged... and that was the start.My stepdaughter's heart started with the first covid jab, she was rushed to hospital. She was nervous about going for the second jab, but everyone insisted it wouldn't happen again, but it did and back to the hospital. She didn't have another, and I chose not to have one at all . After that she and her boyfriend got covid, but I didn't.... hubby and I had loads of wild garlic leaves. I'm not sure what starts my heart off now, once it was knocking back the remains of a glass of red wine, another time stretching in yoga but other times I wasn't aware of a cause.
It’s so sad your stepdaughter had such an awful experience with the vaccination. I do hope further research uncovers why that should happen. The way that covid and vaccines get politicised hasn’t helped sensible discussion either, the likes of Trump and the “big-guys-frightened-of-needles” brigade rather steal the show. But as we’ve seen in this wonderful thread all kinds of stuff can trigger Afib and none of it should be dismissed. Intrigued about what you put on your neck!
Country, pay attention to electrolyte balance which are sodium, potassium magnesium and calcium.
Those C vaccines are known to cause heart issues yet here again a lot people were bullied and scared into getting them.
I, knowing that, refused and took a lot of flack from people, before that it was DPT when my grandson was born just before the pandemic. My neighbor was so excited to get the C vaccine and now he has cancer. So confusing as to who to trust, one must do their homework and decide for oneself.
I hope your stepdaughter overcomes the heart issues.
The scientific community needs our trust. All those young people who trained for years and years and who conduct such painstaking and dare I say it at times boring research should never be dismissed. It is the self-publicists hooking in to popular misguided belief systems like climate change deniers who are the dangerous ones. Of course there’s huge, legitimate research going on into risk and side effects of the C vaccination. But good science takes time. Meanwhile there are a lot of charlatans playing into people’s fears and prejudices and this makes plans to protect people from future pandemics very difficult. Johnson when he was PM thought old people and the disabled like my daughter should just accept their fate and die!
One in three of us will have cancer. Saying covid or a vaccine causes cancer is like saying crime rate has gone up due to increase in ice cream sales just because there’s a correlation. Which there is, every summer.
The reaction to future pandemics does worry me, so I’m crossing fingers that it takes a while. As well as those charlatans you mention, cashing in on fears, the dreadful attitudes of the government, plus the partying, have made people lose trust.
I felt that we were lucky with her up here in Scotland - and people did largely follow all the advice. Though I also used to listen to a certain ‘doctor’ on YouTube, who I definitely wouldn’t trust these days.
its has been documented that is does. we will have to agree to disagree on this one. anything the body can't eliminate will encapsulate. How do you know I don't do research myself? I am not sure if that is what you implied that I listen to charlatans. What do you think the body is doing with all the spike protein from C or C vaccine? The scientific community has led me astray and there is that too. I am not going to trust those that have no idea what is it have Afib. because they don't
Sorry Peaceful, no I didn’t want to imply you don’t research or that you follow charlatans and I think you have been adding really thoughtful comments. Everyone here has done their own research to a greater or lesser extent, and we can agree to disagree, but few of us can claim to be medics or scientists so I was just making the point that, like us, scientists are human beings and deserve our respect for the work they do. I owe my life to them as does my daughter with MS whose carers protect her from diseases that would otherwise kill her.
Genetics here too, ,,,11 second cousins,,,grandparents were the 4 siblings,,,,one cousin passed away,,,out of the other 10,,,4 of us have afib so far,,,ages 65,68 and 76,,,,maybe more to follow as they age? I am thankful to have maybe up to 3 episodes yearly ,,the others are in daily struggles,,,,mine started while on a treadmill just walking, nothing fancy,,that heart rate went from 80 to 180 in a heartbeat, so to speak,,,,had to sit,try to breathe and wonder what just happened,,got my diagnosis and here I am 6 years later,,an afibber!
I hadn’t really considered the genetic factor til reading all the posts here. But now wondering what was behind my grandmother’s stroke. And my sister was diagnosed with Afib last year. Thanks for getting me thinking..
My a. f. was caused by alcohol. I was a social drinker and was bought 2 shots before going home after drinking beer and brandy previously. I had never had shots before and as l was already tipsy with the beer and brandy, l didn't realise what l was drinking and how strong they were. I was very sick that night. The next day the doctor sent me to a&e with very fast a.f.
Unfortunately no . I was attended to straight away at a&e and given anticoagulant into my stomach and wafarin tablets. I was instructed to go to my local surgery and have another blood test.l was given more needles and tablets. The g.p. took the needles off me and most of the tablets, saying that l didn't need them. A few days later l had a big stroke and almost lost my life. The cardiologist said l was very lucky. I can't fault the hospitals, they were very quick off the mark. It was the g.p. who arrogantly thought he knew better. I recovered almost completely. For two and a half years. Then l went into heart failure due to prolonged fast heart rate in a.f. which wouldn't come down. The heart failure is getting worse all the time despite eating very healthy meals and no ultra processed food. Needless to say, not a drop of alcohol has passed my lips since l first got a.f.
What a lot you’ve had to contend with. It’s just such bad luck - those extra alcohol shots you didn’t even want, the arrogant GP, the stroke and now heart failure. Some part of you must be everso strong to have recovered from all that and the stroke, and I’m wondering if there’s a reason you can’t go for a pacemaker now - so many on this forum seem to have benefitted. Also if you need a second opinion it’s worth a private consultation as they give you a full half hour to explore options. Wishing you wellness xx
Thank you for your kind wishes. I was provided witha a pacemaker a couple of years ago ( which has to be changed now as it is 1 of a faulty batch) which has stopped my blackouts. Pacemakers don't stop the fast a,f. The heart failure is worse as l have to keep stopping what l am doing every few seconds because l am so out of breath. I have had a permanent cough since l got heart failure and l have fits of coughing with water in my throat. The g.p. arranged for me to have a sputum test and chest x-ray despite me telling him l hadn't any infection and was proved all clear. That was a waste of n.h.s. money as l knew it was a heart failure cough. I have been trying to get an appointment with a cardiologist for a year as he is the only one who can change my medication. Apparently l am out of the system apart from a yearly check on my pacemaker. My faintness, breathlessness and cough are getting worse but l can't ring up the cardiac nurse; l have to start all over again with a referral from the g.p. which he seems reluctant to do . Never mind,l will keep on trying xx
Unfortunately no . I was attended to straight away at a&e and given anticoagulant into my stomach and wafarin tablets. I was instructed to go to my local surgery and have another blood test.l was given more needles and tablets. The g.p. took the needles off me and most of the tablets, saying that l didn't need them. A few days later l had a big stroke and almost lost my life. The cardiologist said l was very lucky. I can't fault the hospitals, they were very quick off the mark. It was the g.p. who arrogantly thought he knew better. I recovered almost completely. For two and a half years. Then l went into heart failure due to prolonged fast heart rate in a.f. which wouldn't come down. The heart failure is getting worse all the time despite eating very healthy meals and no ultra processed food. Needless to say, not a drop of alcohol has passed my lips since l first got a.f.
That’s so helpful. Thank you for this. My GP diagnosed me & I started muttering about “overdoing” it on the treadmill. She cut me off - said that it was highly unlikely to be anything I had done. Just that I had a pre disposition to it 🤷♀️. The cardiologist I was referred to said that unfortunately the natural pacemaker in my heart was wearing out. I’m not that old! I exclaimed, I was 58 then, 59 now, I know, he said, you are just unlucky. I took that to mean, “I don’t know & I don’t have the time or resources to find out”. So there we are. I now have a pacemaker.
Hello Rainfern, Mine started about a month after dislocating my hip, which was already a replaced one. When I was on the golf course I felt quite odd and walked a couple of holes and then fainted/passed out. Felt really ill for a good 4 hours before i settled again. So in my case I think Trauma was the cause.
Hi and good morning from a wet and windy Weston Super Mare, you say did you continue with golf? Is the Pope Catholic?
Of course I did, not particularly too good though
I did pass out once more a few months after the first time, but since I have had a Pacemaker fitted I do seem to be back to normal, that is for a 78 year old
I have read other posts on here commenting that looking for causes/triggers for one's Afib is folly. I am so thankful I ignored them!
Each of us is different, and many may not find the sources of their Afib or be able to reduce or eliminate it by making changes to avoid those sources. But, many of us can, and we should not be discouraged from exploring and sorting out as much as we can about our individual experience.
Soon after I began experiencing Afib three years ago, I sensed that before each episode I had a build up of trapped gas which moved up into my lower chest when I lay down. My Afib rate of incidence gradually increased from once every couple of months to once a month to every 2 weeks -10 days.
I kept telling my doctors that I believed the gas build up was a cause/trigger for it. They rolled their eyes and urged me to take dangerous meds or have ablations. I refused and told them I wanted to try to deal with it by working on my digestive health. (I did let them give me Tikosyn once, and I spent three days in the hospital getting a magnesium drip to recover from the medicine!)
Here are the steps I took:
1. Getting off of most of my blood pressure meds. I only take 25 mg metoprolol twice a day now. I was taking 100 mg metoprolol along with Lisinopril and others. This was okayed by my cardiologist.
2. Losing 30-plus pounds.
3. Avoiding constipation and taking Gas-X and Pepcid and/or Pepto Bismol if needed along with a daily probiotic. ( I got a helpful recommendation for constipation of daily prune juice with a tablespoon of chia seeds and flax seed (combined) from someone on this site.) I am now regular with no need for it, however.
4. Discovering I have Celiac disease and eliminating gluten from my diet. I also eat lighter meals and try not to eat after about 7:30 pm.
5. Eschewing alcohol, carbonated drinks and artificial sweeteners, and limiting caffeine.
6. Avoiding gas-producing vegetables and fruits.
7. Staying hydrated and remembering to take deeper breaths periodically.
8. Avoiding sleep apnea by sleeping with my head and neck elevated with my head turned to the right side. Sleep apnea was the apparent trigger for Afib on 5-6 occasions in the past.
9. Walking fairly briskly for an hour most days. Light weightlifting every other day - 50 lbs, 100 times in reps of 10. I was careful to build up to that gradually. It may not be a factor, but it makes you feel more positive.
10. Thinking positive, with the help of my 12-year-old granddaughter.
I evolved this regimen of behaviors on my own. My heart doctors ignored my concerns about stomach gas, and one EP expressly told me that diet change would not stop the Afib events. Except for 2 events when I had Covid recently, I have had no Afib for the past 11 and 1/2 months! (knocking on wood or whatever is handy!)I still need to cut down on sugar and sleep better.
I know everyone is different with regard to the triggers and root causes for their Afib, and I am not trying to sell my experience or play doctor. I do believe that some of the practices I have adopted can be helpful. For me, eliminating the buildup of intestinal gas was especially key. If I do have more Afib, I will try not to get defeatist or down. I will stay the course unless it becomes clear that I need more serious medical intervention. It is not clear which changes in my behaviors are actually helping avoid Afib, but something is working. I wish all could find the keys to reducing or eliminating Afib from their lives. I am fortunate for now.
I do not find a distinction between a "cause" and a "trigger" to be important. The point is that I figured out how to alleviate the Afib episodes and am free of the ongoing anxiety and discomfort of it.
I am so glad I figured out the causes/triggers for my Afib!
It’s clear from above posts that some people have identified quite precise causes for their AFib and others who have found it a big relief to let go of a causal focus. I don’t think either is right or wrong but I do definitely regret the use of the word “folly”in my original post which did sound quite judgemental. As Jean pointed out above I’m at a very early stage in the Afib journey. I’ll probably think entirely differently in another few weeks!
I have been suffering quite bad indigestion since my ablation- something I rarely experience normally. So I’ve had a strong sense of a link between my gut and my heart, and been concerned pressure on the heart may trigger Afib. So your post makes a lot of sense. There is plenty of research now to back up much of your own own health decisions. And if we didn’t have hunches and if there were no pioneers exploring new ground (eg gut heart link) then what would there be to research. So well done and keep positive!
It is ironic that I did not remember your using the word "folly". I was simply using it to generally cite the point of view of comments in several posts over the past year or so.
It turns out that you did use it! That is a little bit humorous.
I appreciate your magnanimous response. My main thesis is that we should, without becoming obsessive or falling prey to false leads, investigate, chronicle, and explore our experience with Afib using our own intimate knowledge of the conditions, factors and sensations that accompany its onset, searching for consistencies and patterns.
I think we should do this with any serious ailment that encroaches on our lives significantly. Some doctors do not seem interested in our anecdotal tales, preferring to make us fit the physicians guide, rather than adapting treatment to the individual. My best doctors are good listeners and highly knowledgeable advisors.
I respect and appreciate doctors, but do not believe in blindly and faithfully following their decisions without studying and thinking about the matter for myself, also.
I am not trying to discourage you or anyone from trying medical solutions to Afib, but I do urge all to be involved in the decision making through their own intellect, research and common sense. I believe we all, doctors included, have much to learn about Afib, especially regarding its etiology and the diverse experience of each patient. That knowledge would make for much better treatment approaches, I think.
I wish you well in finding the best answers for alleviating your Afib!
I think what you are doing is great because I personally think that what we eat had a big impact on how we feel and the wrong foods causing a cascade of interruptions in how the body functions which in turn throws off how our heart beats, lucky us.
I have added digestive enzymes to my dinner which I think we all need as we age.
Modern medicine seems to only want to give medications to cover the symptoms or make them go away but never look for an underlying cause. With our modern food it no wonder that we don’t digest. I too gave up gluten in all forms, wheat, barley and rye. It has helped the whole family loose weight and feel better. We don’t digest those things and we end up with a ton of gas.
I have been listening to a series of podcasts talking about just that, if something you’re eating creates a ton of gas stop eating it, that is the bottom line.
Well you have prompted a response, perhaps that was intended. Antecedents, Behaviour Consequences can be a way of looking at things. It strikes me you haven't really experienced the consequences of Afib but you do have the opportunity to change your behaviour and look at your personal lifestyle, body metrics etc to give yourself the best opportunity to not happen chance upon an undesired or unintended consequence. I had the stroke (severe) out of the blue, 14 months later Afib detected. Wished it was Afib first and the opportunity not to have the stroke!
I do know how lucky I am Chinko that my AFib was very symptomatic from the start (breathlessness, unable to ignore heart flipping about) so I had a speedy diagnosis and straight onto anticoagulant. I think we need a national programme of testing for AF - so many people are currently diagnosed by chance or once a stroke has done it’s damage.
I had no idea my post would generate such a response. My posts don’t normally do that and I thought its length would put people off!
I’m sorry to hear about your stroke. I only know from the experience of friends and my work as an OT how utterly life changing it is. So it’s good you’re here and you’ve got clear speech and irony intact!
Dear Rainfern, I have read your posts with interest. Our treatment journeys are very different. I guess the point of my reply to your posts is to highlight how instrumental the patient’s determination to find a fix is.
My journey; diagnosed with AF in March 2023. Age 65. Very active. Normal BMI.
Very irregular heart beat but doesn’t go above 90 ( as far as I know) .
GP prescribed anti coagulant (Edoxoban) and beta blocker (Nebivilol). Taken both for 6months. Side effects - breathlessness only.
Had the Bpro test and score of 750/led to Echo.
Have been in persistent AFib since March.
Medical advice is that Ablation and/or cardioversion are usually unsuccessful and cause even more damage. Advised they are only suitable for those with HR 125+
In summary I am wondering were your various (and repeat) treatments due to your own impressive pressure or originated as best solutions by medical professionals
Like most of us with a diagnosis of Afib I started out doing my own research into the condition. And I did have to put in a request for an echocardiogram and referral to a cardiologist as my GP would otherwise have managed the condition from the surgery with medication.
Then in February this year I chanced upon a public talk organised by Nuffield given by an Electrophysiologist cardiologist (EP) on all the latest developments in treatment for AF. It was amazing! I learned that due to continual advances in the world of ablation procedure there is a shift away from the medication only route towards offering ablation at the earliest opportunity before the heart “remoulds” and becomes harder to shift back to NSR. I spoke with him after the talk and he assured me that having persistent Afib for the past few months wouldn’t rule me out. It was just so much more positive than the approach my general practice could offer.
When my referral to a cardiologist was eventually set in motion I was pleased to see it was this same EP who works across NHS and private sector. But the waiting list was very long so I decided to book a private appointment. If having enough money to pay for a half hour consultation is determination, then I was determined, but I think at that stage it was more about staving off panic! I so hated having the arrhythmia, it was quite symptomatic. I was booked in within a fortnight and even paid for my first cardioversion (don’t ask!) which as much as anything is a diagnostic procedure.
If I had one piece of advice to you it would be to get to see an EP and discuss your options with them. Of course they have to run through all the potential risks - every surgical procedure has those, but there’s risks staying in Afib even on anticoagulants. And it’s a condition that has a tendency to get worse over time - so they say. I already had scarring on my heart from a hole in heart op age 15, open heart surgery. And I’d had 55 years healthy life since then, so I wasn’t going to let a far less invasive procedure of catheter ablation scare me. But if you do go that route do list all your symptoms - there is still a tendency for asymptomatic AF to remain a managed condition of medicine only. I don’t know who advised you, but my resting HR was never above 90 even without meds.
Right now I’m happily in NSR following ablation and hope to stay this way. I plan to contribute here from time to time, but bear in mind the majority of those with successful procedures don’t, and there must be thousands of them.
Wishing you very best of luck and thank you for your question!
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Just (another) thought.......
AFIB got me but it won't stop me. My recent AFIB attack
Update on the pace part of my pace and ablate. Could be a long post!
