I have a suspicion that my laptop is relevant to my permanent AF.
I would be interested to know how many people use a laptop regularly.
There is research reporting the electro magnetic field from laptops (and phones) can cause cardiac irregularities. Certainly not scaremongering, but would be interested to know if anybody else has any experience or knowledge. Or indeed how many of us use laptops and could the huge increase in EMF since the introduction of phones and laptops could correlate with the increase in AF.
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zyxv
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Interesting question. We have at least one member who is sure his AF was caused by keeping his phone in his shirt pocket and we know that pacemakers can be affected by such things as induction hobs and electric welders. I use a proper desk type computer so can't comment on lap tops.
Without going into long boring details some years ago I was concerned about increased EMF from a nearby electricity sub station at my office in London. It was affecting our old style CRT computer screens and we were concerned about possible health issues. We called in a specialist testing company who actually showed me that whilst chaotic in my office, the actual amount of EMF was considereably less than that standing in the street outside. The solution was the then new LCD screens and we trialed the first IBM products very successfully.
Yes certainly could be. I mean the switch over to more powerful 5G could definitely play a factor in the increasing heart problem cases we are all seeing. The frequency is the same as microwaves buy they do assure us all that it's all safe....but yet if you read your WiFi box, tells you to stay 2m away from. Hmm...so is it 100% safe and effective, or is it 100% but potentially some side effects. Who knows. Time will surely tell.
One major cause of the big increase in Afib cases is simply down to smart watches picking up the signs that were previously invisible. Ironic if the watch screen and twinned phone are themselves part of the problem!What are we doing to ourselves!
I’ve recently started questioning the vibration of my electric toothbrush and wondered if that hasn’t in some way jumbled up my hearts wiring.
I had posted on here some years ago about the onset of my paroxysmal AF. My reference point at that time is this link ... electrosensitivity.org.uk/
At the time I felt that carrying my cell phone in my work uniform shirt pocket, upper left hand side ! Look at the position !!
So from 2007 to 2010 I carried my cell phone in this pocket, 11 hours a day, 5 days a week, occasionally a 6th day. On 6 January 2010 I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF. At a later point I felt confident that this positioning of my phone was a direct cause of my AF.
In the years that followed I did research into family ancestry. Turns out my paternal Grandfather died following 6 strokes of various shapes, sorts, sizes and magnitude. This was in 1964 aged 82. Then I discovered one of his brothers children suffered from AF, eventually dealt with at Papworth. My second cousin. My daughter during two pregnancies was diagnosed with AF in both cases. Since she stopped breeding no more AF. I have (had ) AF. No trace of AF or cardiac issues on maternal side.
Enter stage left BobD ....... over the years Bob has talked about predisposition to AF.
So, I am still unsure ....... genetics, predisposition and/or electrosensitivity. If I were to rank AF in peeps it would be just that .... 1st- genetics, 2nd -predisposition and finally 3, electrosensitivity.
Hell - who knows, just putting some thoughts down following your thread.
At the present time I use laptops, tablets and cell phones constantly - all day every day. That said I've been AF free for 18 months - possible as long as 4 years. Followed new diet and maintained all my medications daily and will do so for life - no PIP.
I feel electrosensitivity is responsible for more than we credit it for. Research seems to focus more on restoring QOL (understandably) than on cause and effect, despite many papers written in USA.
Whilst substations can give off large electro magnetic force, laptops are not in that league at all, no matter how close they are to you physically. I would like to see any actual study/evidence that output from laptops is a health factor.As to WiFi routers, the output of a router, whilst being at the same frequency as a microwave is a millionth of the power and unlike the oven when it's beamed into your frozen peas, is spread out equally in every direction. Also note the same frequency randomly spews out of every WiFi device you have (your TV, pc, smart lamp, camera door bell, WiFi printer, Alexa, Amazon fire stick, and so on, and all the ones in your neighbours houses on both sides too).
And you can apply this theory to 5G running at 60 ghz when all the tests to gain a licence were run at 30 ghz..for 30 minutes with no long term monitoring …these towers are capable of 300 ghz… who knows what will happen?
Routers run on two frequencies .. 2.4 GHz and 5.6ghz… these are bombarding your living space in some cases while you sleep unless you have the sense to switch off all devices.. again we are told not to worry like 5G it’s safe enough for home use and on the battlefield in war.
The first changes that occur in the human body are calcium channel ions… albeit very small it’s enough to make anyone question how long and how strong before something irreversible happens?
The danger from any mobile signal would be from the phone not the mast, as to is there a danger, there's no intrinsic reason why 5G operating at 3.6GHz would be any worse than everything else operating at 2.5 GHz. Your typical home router pumps out 5GHz too, sitting nicely behind the TV, and these have been in homes for years (let alone of course all of the other devices talking at 5Ghz...)
EMF? I'd be more worried about the garbage put in supermarket food, etc. Thats stuff we actually take into our bodies. This is a huge change in behaviour in the UK in the past 30years or so. But yes, it would take decades for policy to change (as it did with smoking and seat belts, and as it hasn't with sugar)
At my arrhythmia clinic I met a couple of fellow patients and we hit it off and speak now and then . One of them, a younger man blamed his new Tesla for the onset of AF and has since bought a new (but much cheaper) SEAT … his AF continues and he still can’t say “Elon Musk” without feeling a surge of PAF ( he says ! … but I don’t know if he’s pulling my leg)
There is another lady who blamed travelling in the upper deck of the bus to work in Bristol - she loved the view “but it was too near the power lines “. She’s now retired, her AF is still going but reduced but then she’s no longer working 12 hours days in a very busy dementia nursing home. The bus service, if she uses it has now been changed to a single decker … but it’s electric. I don’t know if she knows yet.
My PAF I reckon is genetic or just part of the lottery of life exacerbated by stress and triggered by alcohol, caffeine etc.
I feel quite boring.
That said, I use a laptop regularly and also iPads and although I wouldn’t connect any normal usage of such devices to my incidences of PAF I certainly believe I have experienced the impact of these devices on my pacemaker on at least a couple of occasions but I was too close to them ( holding them to carry while they were working ) so my fault for ignoring very clear advice. I follow such advice very carefully now and additionally never touch an iron nor vacuum cleaner either - better safe than sorry.
Forgive me for making light of a serious topic, but does this mean that if/when I have a pacemaker I won’t have to vacuum or do the ironing ever again?
Ah ! You’ve caught me out there ! … No - you don’t have to do any that anymore ever again - as long as you have someone else to do it and they also believe anything you tell them. You might want to add cooking on any electric appliance while you’re at but then make sure they can cook food you can eat! 😂
Thanks Portishead. I’m seeing the arrhythmia team tomorrow- maybe I should ask if I need to start practicing? Husband a good cook - no problem there ….😀
My experience has been bad posture of any sort is what causes my a fib. I have had Rolfing to make it possible to stand up more straightly, and have changed my position while playing my musical instrument to avoid hunching over it. This has been a great help, and I now find I start to have heart problems again when I start slouching again.
This is quite likely to be vagus nerve related.. the bodies biggest nerve shares pathways between heart and gut…diaphragm and lungs… pinch or impinge and who knows what messages get mixed up.
I have read of no evidence so it would be interesting if you could post a link to a reliable source. It sound very unlikely and I wasn't aware that laptops emitted radiation. Such radiation is non-ionising so would cause only a mild heating effect rather than any cellular changes.
Very much more likely, I would say, is that sitting scrunched up with a notebook on the lap pushes the abdomen and stomach high against the diaphragm and can physically compress the base of the heart. This is known to cause ectopic beats in some people (me!) and this can precipitate AF or other arrhythmias in prone individuals (me!).
That is far removed from what I was saying and your use of irony says much. I read widely of these matters and have done so for many years. I have a close and continuous interest in and some academic background in science.
The earth itself is bathed in EMF, of course. It is not ionising radiation and its primary action, I would think, is to cause heat.
The study you linked to is excellent and I found it very interesting to read but the authors were trying to show the use of safe low frequency EMF to treat various disease states. They reviewed the safety of the kind of EMF emitted by modern electronics and concluded, so far as I could understand what they said, and which has long been accepted, that such exposure was safe.
The mere fact that low frequencies can alter physiological pathways.. should give you a clue of intended consequences towards healing.. but turn the dial and see what happens.. It’s a bit like using radiation to cure skin problems .. okay at low levels .. crank it up and the opposite happens..like they did in Norway Denmark and Belgium.. short test at 60 GHz plus.. birds dropped out the sky.. lots of dead bees.. but hey ho we have experts to tell us not to worry.. I just wish I could rely on something up to date.
"Complicated", "varied" and "contradictory" are three words that appear in even the latest studies that attempt to show the effects of EMF on cellular physiology and ion transport.
I won't be selling my iPhone 12 yet, but I am keeping it in my pocket far less! Caution in everything, eh?
Yes my iPhone 12 in my left front pocket probably helped my BPH and PSA to grow …no end!
My latest router can transmit a full 100 feet.. wonder why the cat never sits next to it?
Hi
I have always thought some AF triggers were due to a calcium ion dis regulation… too much calcium remaining in places potassium ion and sodium ion channels should occupy in tissue… and muscle hence too much contraction and not enough relaxation…and why the role of magnesium binding to ATP often corrects this.
Low magnesium often goes hand in hand with low Vit D… high Vit D … more calcium… confused yet?
EMF uprates calcium ions in tissue… now ask yourself why Doctors prescribe calcium channel blockers…furthermore calcium levels can go up with thyroid issues…. A little supporting read to make you wonder.
I was interested to read this as I have been aware for some time now that using my laptop for more than about 10 minutes starts my AF.I did wonder if it was positional .
I think I may have replied to the wrong person! My reply said that I have been aware for some time now that using my laptop starts my AF but thought it might be positional.
Hi sounds plausible to me. As far as I know there is no long term research into affects of prolonged usage. Techy companies are big and powerful and like cigarette companies in past may well block any research or adverse publications. Never trust a company whose sole aim is profit.
I have a pacemaker and you are told about not using induction hobs but they are the ones most shops offer. But I was also told at my PM check ups that anything electrical with a battery, mobile phones etc should not be held closer than 1ft to PM. So you find there's lots of things that maybe unsafe, eg MRI, airport scanners, electrical muscle massagers use by physios, certain dental equipment.
Hi zyxv, i read many years ago that an ongoing study was looking into this but for the life of me i cant find that study today, it would be interesting to know if af has increased in the population since the introduction of wifi and bluetooth, ive read many articles pertaining to this and i think its quite possibly related, my opinion, if those signals are able to penetrate concrete walls etc, im sure they can reach the heart.
I would be curious about this myself. A relative of mine with a history of cardiac issues was found having a stroke 6 years ago sitting on the couch with an old laptop on them. The relative spent a month in the hospital. Since they forgot all their passwords from the stroke, their laptop was put away and replaced with a simple Chromebook just for Internet access. Fast forward to this month, someone decided to try to help them access some info from the old laptop. The relative sat with that particular one on their lap for less than half hour. The next day during the morning bp check she had irregular heart rate. She's on day 3 of the episode. I believe it may be the first episode that we know of since her stroke 6 years ago. Shes doesn't, drink, smoke, have caffeine, over exercise and we can't recall any particular stress event. However, she does have heart failure and that can itself also do it. We took her bp religiously for a couple of years after the stroke and then only once in a while. I just recently started taking it again about two months ago on a daily basis. In all these years, this was the first time we catch irregular rhythm. It makes me wonder.
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