I thought the study linked below might be of interest to some of us. It’s a review of salt intake and cardiovascular health.
Very many years ago I read a similar major review in which the researchers drew much the same conclusions and I’ve often thought of this when I read government advice that we should reduce our salt intake to around a level spoonful per day. Heinz beans are now noticeably bland as a result as are pikelets! As for potato crisps, well salt has been pushed out in favour of flavourings and spices.
At home, we’ve never worried too much about salt intake but never had a salt pot on the table except for boiled eggs at breakfast. In restaurants, however, I nowadays regularly need to add salt to the vegetables and wonder how the tasteless (and often near raw) veg they do serve can be acceptable to anyone. It’s no surprise to me that to replace the flavour lost from salt, the grilling and browning of many foods including most vegetables is now near ubiquitous, a technique that is likely very much worse for our health as it increases cancer causing chemicals.
Can't say Ive noticed things have become more bland. We have never salted our water for boiling vegetables and don't generally add it at the table either. We use freshly milled sea salt. My wife does add salt when scratch making meals in stews, soups and sauces but that is practically the only time we use salt We do both love freshly milled black pepper though and my wife tends to use it a lot. I smoked for about 40 years so my taste buds were mucked up anyway and really I have a very sweet tooth which I control with an iron hand - usually.
I haven't used salt in cooking for 20 years since my husband was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Unfortunately it had the opposite effect because he now grabs the salt pot and shakes around a full teaspoon on every meal, a ridiculous amount because he can't see what he puts on. I've begged him to s hake it into his hand then sprinkle on what he thinks he needs but he refuses. Every time he has a diabetes check up, his BP has risen just a little bit more. H e refuses to accept the connection.
I think in that article there’s a reference to a study that showed that those with diabetes do need extra salt, so maybe it’s his body’s way of getting it!
Your story reminded me of a dear friend who’s no longer with us but who used to hold the salt pot running over his food when he ate with us. We could never believe it. I do what you suggest and shake it into my hand, first. I dislike too much salt but struggle with too little. The perverse thing in restaurants these days is that often they snobbishly use giant crystals of Himalayan salt or similar on the tables but it never grinds well and I find it it burns my tongue.
Maybe he does need more but truly the amount he uses is utterly ridiculous. He fills up the salt pot every week. If Istart cooking with salt again it might stop him but then I would be taking it which I don't want.
It's the way he was brought up. Doctors are gods. YOu leave everything to them. You don't need to know anything. He also refuses to use his hearing aids so he doesn't hear what they say anyway.
No c omment but you should seethe amount of cake he buys since I refused to bake! I re3ally think it would be better if I salted food and made cakes so I can at least control the amount of salt and sugar
My husband also refuses to use his hearing aids. We have strange conversations sometimes. I also no longer cook with salt because my husband has a problem with kidney function. The only salt we have in the house is Himalayan or sea but I think sea is becoming problematic because of the micro plastics.
I think once the kidney function is reduced, then it's a different scenario. Our friend's daughter has, poor woman, come down with something called vasculitis following having covid and her kidney function is now unlikely to get higher than 35-40%. She's well enough except for tiredness.
My elderly aunt pours salt onto a saucer and with each bite of a tomato she presses it into the salt.!!🤮 She does it with celery too.!!! She eats cottage cheese as a snack and always adds a load to that too.!!🤮
She’s into her 80s now and has done this since i can ever remember.!! I don’t know what her BP must be and neither does she because her last doctors visit was 1979 😳
It’s taken for granted is youth isn’t it.? I felt ok until I got to around 50. But 50 isn’t middle aged is it like people say it is.? It’s actually two thirds aged.?? I’m 56 so i may get to my late 70s if I’m lucky.? 😜
I also think we’re expected to do too much too these days personally and if you’re not doing it then there’s something wrong with us.? Sleep 7hours a day ? don’t sit watching tv too long.? Make sure you get at very least 10.000 steps in a day.? Drink 4 gallons of water a day.? Don’t eat this and don’t eat that.? Then when you find time try not to worry about how you’re feeling.?
100% agree. I enjoy my little life pottering around, going to the gym, reading & watching films/Netflix series. I don’t feel the need to climb mountains or run marathons & yet feel guilty when I see people older than me doing all these things. I’m 59 & like you - I was fine until 50 when I hit menopause. I’ve just had my pacemaker fitted so I am now officially old 😉😂😂
I hope I get to that age Steve. I’m 56 and already creaking.!! I can’t stand upright for the first hour after getting out of bed.!! My grandson asked me what I was looking for the other day.? I said I aren’t looking for anything I’m going to work why.? He said why you bent over like that then.? 😡
I was in my early sixties when bits started to really wear out enough to notice but lately it’s worse with neuropathy and tendinitis and of course AF. Such fun - but life’s good enough and we have the most wonderful grandson with his fine parents who live nearby. Also - fifty years this year since I met my wife on a blind date and she’s still as pretty! I have little to complain about, really - although I do complain!
That is something to be really proud of Steve.👍 It’s these things in life that are important and sometimes people forget about the honest simple true treasures of life.? It’s not posh cars and big savings accounts. You can’t beat happiness and love.? Iv got 2 friends/ ex colleagues with everything that I haven’t got.? They’re rolling in it.!! Drive expensive vehicles, got property abroad go fine dining etc etc. but how they haven’t got AFIB I just do not know.? Because They hardly see their families, they can never relax, they always in the office, drink gallons of coffee, get by on little sleep.!!!!
Iv got my family including grandkids, drive a standard car, make sure I’m home at a decent time, and we all go on package family holidays together. and my savings account isn’t worth talking about .😀
Well, the grass always seems greener. There's so much wealth about these days. You sound to me as if you have things as well sorted as you need and, as you say, love and kindness - and grandchildren!! - make life so worthwhile.
It's been lovely "chatting" in this crazy way through virtual space!!
PS - I amended the typos in my post above. I miss them so easily especially when I type on my phone.
As long as we’re happy that’s what matters.👍 My old mother in her 80s says she doesn’t mind having her odd ailments because she’s lucky enough to have got to an age to experience the ailments as some unfortunate folk never get to a good age.😢
Thanks for posting. It tallies with what my body and taste buds tell me when I sense low sodium levels - a pack of plain salted crisps or cashew nuts if I’m on the move, extra salt in the cooking when I’m at home.
Our taste buds can deteriorate with age so vegetables can taste more bland unfortunately, even with extra salt.
I’m glad I’m not alone. I have mentioned it occasionally when eating out but I might as well talk to my hand. It’s clear that college cookery courses teach low salt is the only way to cook.
Thank you for this very interesting article Ppiman. My husband was diagnosed with low blood sodium - he now takes salt daily and I have been advised by my cardiologist to take 3gr of salt daily because of lowish BP.
The whole salt scare story was, I believe, the work of one 'expert' some years ago and it started the low salt frenzy. I agree with you that most foods are fairly tasteless without seasoning - especially boiled eggs!
I was so glad to read your post. I have always wondered how such a thing ever did catch on but it’s everywhere it seems. I do appreciate that high BP is a cause of much bad health but I’ve always looked to over processing and modified fats, starches and the like as the cause rather than something the body seems made to deal with and clearly does need. Low salt levels (hyponatraemia) are clearly very bad for us indeed and I’ve read that falls owing to low BP are a major cause of hospitalisation and worse.
I used to have an article from New Scientist I think which named the originator of the claim regarding salt - doubt if I can find it but will have a look . . .
It will be interesting. The attempt to find causes for the cardiovascular illnesses and cancers that bring an early demise tends to focus on food rather than, say, diesel and other particulates in the air we breathe. It’s fascinating, though!
Lewis Dahl was the first to feed massive amounts of salt to rats in the 1950's and then announce that it caused them to have cardiac problems but some of his work was discredited and I don't know if he was the main mover in the anti-salt stance taken by so many clinicians. I cannot find the article I mentioned but no doubt it will surface when I'm looking for something else . . . .
I don’t know, but it seems to me that our poor diets (and generally lethargic lifestyles), seasoned with salt or not, along with our genes, are more to blame.
Agree - as much danger in taking in too little as too much - especially if you have AF. Johnathan Pitt Cricks made a comment in one of my threads some years ago about taking salty snacks as a help if in AF.
The whole government thing was about too much salt in processed foods - if you do not take any processed foods - you need to add salt to your food! If you have baked beans and other processed foods then know how much salt is in each serving.
I need to take at least 6g/day - that is a good teaspoonful and I struggle to get that in so my addiction is Dark Chocolate with sea salt grains - love it!
Your post reminded me of my telling my disbelieving husband that one of my 'funny turns' went away when I ate half a tube of Pringles! This was in my early days of AF when I didn't know what was wrong but it is true - the episode terminated (from the Pringles??).
I’ve had arrhythmias start with what seems to me to be low blood sugar levels (i don’t mean from diabetes, just hunger). Food does help those.
I’ve also read that stomach movements do press, via the diaphragm, onto the base of the heart and in a person prone to ectopic beats, that can spark AF.
None of that explains why the heart muscle itself is prone, though. I suspect genetics, myself. What are called “food triggers” of AF strike me as unlikely, in general, but the physical explanation seems very likely.
I read recently that no one yet knows what causes heart failure, the thing we likely all fear alongside a heart attack. Again, I suppose it’s in the genes.
That is interesting. I have a growth in my abdomen the size of an orange. This might displace organs which could press up into the base of the heart and trigger my AF. I am under 7stone 8lbs. It might well explain why A/F is now continuous and I am in such an anxious state. Op booked privately for the 14th Nov. NSH waiting list over 6months..
That’s about the only time I like those large grains of salt in myself - in dark chocolate. To be given them on food in a restaurant, well I can’t fathom as all I get then is a burnt tongue and sore lips.
There was an article on the addictive qualities of ultra-processed food in the newspaper last week. It doesn’t surprise me, with the suggestion being that it’s not the food quality so much as the quantity that these foods induce us to eat in even otherwise self-controlled individuals.
You need to read Ultra Processed People by Chris Van Tulleken It is very detailed and fascinating. His opinion is that UPF is addictive because it never satisfies our nutritional needs. A large tome but easy reading for those of us interested in the subject.
I agree. I recently got left with half a loaf of the worse type of pappy cheap white bread (long story!). I had my usual two slices and cheese for lunch but was permanently hungry. Modern mass produced bread is a triumph (?) of cheap ingredients and air! Interesting bit on the Zoe podcast about the state of bread too....
We're in Norfolk on holiday this week and brought a home baked loaf down with us, but now have had to buy a local shop-bought loaf. Well - what a tasteless, textureless loaf it is. Guess what - the list of ingredients is long and the word "modified" is in there.
I saw the fascinating TV programmes on it recently and might well buy a copy when I'm next in a bookshop. I'm with him all the way. For decades now, I have been suspicious of chemically modified basic food ingredients such as hydrogenated fats and starches. It seems to be recognised now that they are addictive and, in the long term, perhaps toxic .
I believe a lot of over eating is due to the lack of vitamin and mineral content of processed food so the body craves vits and minerals so you keep eating to get them. Also sugar and sweet is addictive.
I remember once reading how hydrogenated fats fooled the body into thinking it was a natural food, but its metabolism was far from natural. It seems similar that ultra-finely processed wheat might be a culprit, too - "simple" flour, I mean. I'm currently trying to find out more on that as we do eat a lot of it, making our own bread, too.
A very interesting article Ppiman, thank you for posting. I must say I’ve always taken the salt reduction craze with, yes, you’ve guessed it - a pinch of salt 😊 An article I read some years ago now, stated that there is a part of the brain that monitors sodium levels and drives a hunger for salt when levels drop too low. It makes sense given how vital sodium is to life and the lengths to which animals will go to obtain it.
Indeed. The kidneys sense the levels, I believe, as part of the body’s vital homeostasis. That doesn’t mean that sodium is safe, of course… but nutritional science has a lot of work to do yet I always feel.
Thanks for posting, but I would take the conclusions with -- pun fully intended -- a grain of salt
Dr. John Mandrola has many times critiqued observational studies, especially those that have to do with what is in your diet. Just too many variables and often hard to tell cause and effect from one factor being associated with another. For example, it might be that those with high ldl are the same ones with high bp (metabolic syndrome) so are the same ones that reduce the sodium. That doesn't necessarily mean that the reduction in sodium caused the low LDL.
Please read carefully, with all the caveats, before you start using the salt shaker again.
That’s interesting. Mandrola is one of my heroes in respect of his enthusiasm and knowledge. I do, however, find myself in some disagreement with your comments (if mainly semantically), in the sense that there seem to be no “conclusions” as such in the article. The summaries offered seemed to me to be proportionate and balanced with careful use of verbal mitigation to be sure the “conclusions” offered, such as they were, were always tentative.
At a more general level, I wonder whether finding a correlation between a relatively small reduction in something as hard to measure accurately as BP with sodium intake is ever going to be possible, or at least sufficient to advise, for example, that 7g of salt is toxic and 5g (or 3g… ) is healthy. Measuring BP over long periods (i.e. months and years) is fraught with difficulties since there is likely no heterogeneity possible in either control or active groups over such a period of time.
Any reduction in BP from a small change in sodium intake is going to be small. Also, the original causes of hypertension will be nigh on impossible to ascertain let alone link to sodium intake (rather than to general dietary or obesity issues, or even to the kind of genetic make up that predisposes to the inflammatory processes that lead to such cellular changes as calcification and such like that cause the hypertension itself).
Add to this the difficulties in understanding the interaction of dietary potassium and sodium on BP and yet more difficulties arise.
Once hypertension exists and oedema needs to be controlled, then a sodium reduction will surely more likely show benefits, but can it follow that sodium is toxic and causes oedema in healthy individuals? I just don’t know.
In sum, I still think that was a well considered article - but wouldn’t gainsay Mandrola.
Thank you for the link, I found it very interesting.
I am a 69 year old female and had been scolded by my children over the years for my use of too much salt. I recently had OHS to repair my mitral and Trucuspid valves. To my surprise after the op I was put on salt tablets, I had a good laugh🤷♀️
Twice when I was blue lighted to A and E due to AF my bloods showed low sodium. When I was first diagnosed with low BP I cut out all salt. Didn't change my BP at all! Later, though this forum, I read about electrolyte loss during AF. I think it was CDreamer who said we need 6gms of salt a day. I measured it out in an egg cup to see how much it was and have reintroduced salt into my life as needed. My BP hasn't suffered.
I think it's the hidden salt that's the danger- check the amounts next time you feel a yen for processed food. Because we eat very little processed food in our home nowadays, we're both shocked when we go out and maybe have to eat on the run. Fast processed food is loaded with sugar, salt and trans fats.
I think that you are spot on, Singwell. I'm lucky in having a wife who loves cooking, and a duaghter-in-law, living nearby, who does, too. They both love food, but freshly cooked and in moderation. Most of what we eat now, apart from Waitrose chocolate nuts, of course (my downfall) is not overly processed and, most of all we try to eat lots of fruit, veg, nuts and pulses.
Mind you in a few years. we'll likely be reading that too much veg is bad for you!
But the research says there is more goodness in gently cooked veges. Tomatoes are a fruit and to get the goodness out are better cooked.
Herbs can replace salt.
Be careful with the kind of salt you have.
Now aged 50, she has for some years had 30 plus cysts growing on her thyroid. She had changed to the pink salt. Apparently no iodine in it.
She is waiting for the time when her time has come not to keep delaying the obvious and have her thyroid out.
I had mine out 3.5 years ago for thyroid cancer and I have survived. Its the reliant on meds to keep one alive she is running from.
Not the stretching of skin about her neck and the obvious lump.
She is adopted so we can't relate the genes.
cheri JOY. 74. (NZ)
One of the many weird opinions my step-mother had was that salt cooled hot food. Hence, from being very young, I applied it vigorously to every meal all my life, ignoring health warnings - until diagnosed with AFib! Being ‘addicted’ to the stuff, I looked for alternatives and found ‘No Salt’ which is sodium free. and comes in an 11oz tub. For comparison 1/4 teaspoon ordinary salt contains 590 mg whereas No Salt contains O mg sodium. To a salt addict it didn’t have the kick I was used to but having persevered I’ve greatly reduced the amount of self-inflicted sodium - without the pain of ‘withdrawal’ and feeling 😇
Thankyou Steve - alas, no, she was not but I’m thankful I managed to rise above the disaster of my childhood (long story) and ‘find myself’. I enjoy writing and if I were less laid back - and had been encouraged as a child - I may have forged some kind of career with my pen! ✍️
Oh dear. Well - you've surfaced and stayed afloat. Life throws us so many "wobblies" but when they come at us as children, it's just so sad.
Like you, I enjoy writing, and eventually became an English teacher. If you love reading, too,, and don't mind a rather older-fashioned style, then I found some short stories online a while back from Walter de la Mare. Look out "Miss Miller" and "The Wharf" and I think you'll agree that they are warm, wonderful and quite profound!
Thankyou Steve and I do enjoy reading and I appreciate your recommendations. It was obviously, for me, an early escape from my reality and books have become my lifetime companions. They are all over the place, wherever there is an empty shelf/surface (obviously their rightful home - the bookcase - has sadly closed its shelves to newcomers!)
My wife enjoys reading, too. Her favourites, although she says she doesn’t have them, are currently Jo-Jo Moyes, Sebastian Faulkes, Elizabeth Stroud and Marve Binchy. For me, it’s E M Foster, Thomas Hardy, George Elliot and John Steinbeck.
I read mostly non-fiction - Eg’s Roger Scruton, Yanis Varoufakis, Howard Jacobson. Biographies are a favourite read and my favourite writer is Alan Bennet whose deadpan observational writing is hilarious (to a fellow Yorkshire lass like me). I often re-read Jane Austin classics find Ogden Nash /Bill Bryson very entertaining and am interested in current issues that impact on or divide society such as the trans debate (Conundrum by Jan Morris very good but far removed from the current ideology which seems toxic) I’m currently reading ‘Making Sense of the Troubles’ - a history of the Northern Ireland Conflict.
It's funny how our palates adapt. I use little salt and find restaurant food unbelievably salty and I'm always thirsty all the next day. I also find it masks the flavour of the food. Likewise I like my veg crunchy. Be a boring world if we were all the same ...😊
The restaurants around here (East Midlands) seem to have stopped using salt. I just can't get used to having no salt in vegetables or bread - even though I never thought of myself as a salt lover at all, never using a salt pot and struggling with overly salted peanuts and crisps, even.
I’ve never liked potatoes or eggs without salt. We don’t add it in cooking otherwise. Last year my husband went for an op, and was told that his sodium levels were low. To eat more salt.
Then I had a borderline/low sodium level too.
Weirdly I find the opposite when eating out - I’m wary of choosing soup as it’s often inedible due to the salt. Though friends were really enjoying the same soup.
However, I love salted nuts and ready salted crisps and don’t worry too much about eating them. (BP low end of normal, cholesterol ok.) If I get a bad headache the cure for me is a caffeinated cup of tea, paracetomol and a packet of ready salted crisps. This type has so few ingredients on the pack - potatoes, sunflower oil and salt.
That’s interesting about the low sodium levels. I think so called home-made soups are often made with dried commercial stock powder and that is usually high in salt.
My son dislikes crisps as being over processed but I like them - cheese and onion, especially. I don’t think they are heavily processed and I can’t think that potatoes and vegetable fats are harmful in moderation.
I’ve got used to nuts without salt, or with just a tiny amount.
I don’t think they’re heavily processed either. They usually say that if the ingredients are those you would have in your kitchen cupboard then it’s not ultra processed. I suspect that an exception is made for crisps as they’re considered unhealthy,
Like potatoes not counting in the ‘five a day’, because it’s starchy.
And yet I believe that starch (when naturally occurring) is a “good “ carbohydrate as it releases its sugar slowly being contained within the cell walls.
I imagine some oils are often heavily processed. At least, as with sugars, they have been removed from within the cell walls so we get them in a more “concentrated” form.
I have boiled it down to a toxic case when the food has vegetable oil in it. Vegetable Oil is made up og several oils, very processed and when I had some events within 24 hours they point to vegetable oil.
Research says "stay with virgin olive oil" and I do in my cooking use it.
And I had my gall bladder removed. It had disintegrated! Why are surgeons so reluctant to look!
We nt only have to watch our food, we also need to watch our meds.
I was looking at a constipation cure it has both sodium and potassium in it. He new Dr to me said that it was made of kiwifruit. No, it's not so I'll take it to my usual Dr and ask.
My Potassium is sitting at 4.5. At 5.0 you are given meds to reduce it.
I never thought meds with their fillers were that bad.
Yes, I have meds for heart BP, H/Rate. Thyroxin for no thyroid, then there are add ons. Then the Chad score is 4 so PRAXA twice and cholestrol at 7 so you should take a statin. A walking pill box.
I aim to have as low dose as possible. Do you?
I'm about to have a tooth out so a short course of Amoxil as I have a heart murmur as found last year with the National Heart Specialist
Thanks, Steve. And what's the first thing we get when in hospital--an IV of normal saline or Ringer's Lactate. And sometimes dextrose! (sugar, which also gets such a bad rap generally) Still remember my GP saying, yrs ago when I complained about low BP, "Just eat more salt." But I inherited low BP, and I understand, those w/ high blood pressure might feel very nervous about salting their food. (I tried the recent trend of salted caramel and salted chocolate bars, and uh-oh--that could be dangerous! ) Good health to all of us! Diane
My daughter in law has very low BP and drinks extra water to help. I sometimes wonder if that won’t dilute her natural salt levels and worsen things but she’s a nurse so I can’t say!
I think you need to drink a lot to affect sodium levels, but when they do go too low, so do the levels of other vitals such as the water soluble vitamins.
I think “hydration” is, in part, a modern myth cultivated by the internet and marketing. I can’t imagine why AF in particular needs anything extra water-wise.
Although, I notice that if my heart feels a little "wiggly" like it's leaning towards AF, if I drink maybe a half-glass of water, that goes away. Possibly I'm a little dehydrated because I don't usually feel thirsty & often just forget to drink anything... You do keep seeing "ample hydration" on all the lists of "how to stave off an AF episodes"...
Couldn't agree more with your saved screenshot, Steve! I always say I have "mechanical causes" for my ectopics and AF--I can bend over &--bang--AF. And I can sit up straighter to get rid of ectopics many times... or lean over at a certain angle. I wonder if losing some pounds (altho I'm not overweight) might just shift things a tad. However, my one missing piece is, I work too many hours & don't exercise. Walking used to help resolve my AF episodes, so I'm going to try to do some kind of daily exercise to see if it cuts down AF frequency. Oh, sigh... the perpetual quest! Thanks for all your helpful reflections. Cheers, Diane
No, I haven't been able to make any connection at all. That said, my AF, rather than my many daily ectopics, is currently, and since March, been keeping away. I started a daily bisoprolol back then (1.25mg) to keep AF away to allow for a small op and my GP has told me to stay with that, rather than as-needed, previously.
Steve, I can understand bisop helping--it was metoprolol that first quelled my ectopics. Ectopics have been back in the last 2 weeks (I never have any idea why that happens) but I admit I slightly reduced my dose of metop. because of weight gain. Looks like I need to go back to the original dose :-(. The devil & the deep blue sea over here...
The bisoprolol seems to have slowed my heart a little but calmed it a lot. That said, I now get more PVCs than PACs and in quite long runs.
I’ve read that metoprolol can increase weight but I can’t imagine the mechanism of its doing so. It might increase hunger or reduce the feelings of satiety?
Also, FWIW, I have noticed one thing that does affect ectopics, and that is breathing patterns. Although I am a singer, it seems I breathe too shallowly some of the time, and I observe that increasing the depth and length of my breaths definitely can resolve ectopics. The challenge is getting this to be automatic, instead of slightly forced. So maybe daily walking would at least increase oxygen. (I've also wondered about taking arginine or other agent that would potentially increase oxygen in the bloodstream.) Thinking outloud again ....
Yes, exactly--vagus nerve seems to have been at the root of all my episodes. And about 9 yrs ago I had a really terrible allergic reaction that caused me to vomit violently many, many times in succession, and some have theorized that my vagus nerve was injured by this. Guess I should learn more about how to heal the poor vagus nerve... Best of health to you, Jomico. Diane
Flossing? Vagal tone flossing is helpful… humming deep enough to feel in your chest.. cold but brief shower after a hot one but only for the brave!
Violent vomiting can cause the hiatus to shift in the diaphragm which then impinges the vagus… YouTube videos available to “release” some types of hiatus hernias.. but pulling downwards over the solar plexus…I used this cure to great effect after accidentally swallowing a corrosive liquid (long story) followed by serious heaving.
Now there is a phrase I've never heard! "Vagal tone flossing"... (picturing how you'd get at the vagus nerve with your dental floss. ) Very helpful, Jomico, thank you. Probably like you, we don't get this kind of help from MD's. I am in Kentucky but will also look into "cardiomiracle" from the UK (and up my intake of watermelon in the meantime, ha ha). I had never had such a violent episode of vomiting (19 times in succession) and only recently did I correlate it with increasing AF & ectopic issues. Your corrosive liquid story sounds frightful, and I'm so glad you found healing for that. Good wishes, Diane
I'll play the devil's advocate and say that now that since marketing departments have found that nitric oxide (NO) acts as a vasodilator, it seems especially important to eat foods that boost NO levels...
And yet vasodilation is in no way whatsoever a good thing unless called for by the autonomic nervous system. And if that is faulty, adding in some nitric oxide will not help one jot since the mechanism that leads to NO shortfall is yet to be ascertained.
Whilst the foods that increase NO production are almost certainly very nutritional, I think we should eat them for their goodness not for their ability to open our microcirculation. That is, unless we need to do just that for our chilblains, then eating foods high in niacin might help but we will glow like a neon sign in the process!
There seems to be a sense floating around that vasodilation of a reasonable degree helps in reducing stroke risk. Have you read of this, Steve or Jomico?
I haven’t but I’ll have a look. I’m not sure foods offer the benefits that the marketing departments claim for them apart from the pretty clear benefits attributed to eating good food minimally processed and not burnt.
If food is to have a long term effect, I’d think it’s from early in life that the changes are needed and allied to other healthy things such as avoiding lethargy.
It’s about blood supply to peripheral networks… the rot starts with the capillaries.. not the major vessels…look around you.. people in their sixties with grey skin.. often foggy thinking…then one or two with rosey cheeks.. sharp as a tack minds.. no high blood pressure… vasodilation beats vasoconstriction..people turning to anticoagulant therapy have aggregated bloods stagnicity .. are doing Nitric Oxide mimicry using drug company products with knockdown to liver and kidney function…I will stick to beetroots ginger garlic and flaxseed any day… it’s a personal choice… 68 and no medications … sure there is hype on both sides pharma and supplement industry both purportedly promoting feting health benefits.. but with 25,000 plant polyphenols that seem to help prevent diseases to start with .. it’s a bit rich when a boffin in a white coat offers something concocted in a lab telling you it’s safer..
I've read of good evidence that it's the major arterial vessels contain striated "proto-" endothelial areas of "damage" even in teenagers, as well as in wild apes in Africa, who, presumably eat a wholly natural diet. This would suggest a genetic basis to atherosclerosis since the later plaque formation occurs on these areas. The microcirculation (such as in the heart and major organs) is, so far as I have read, much better protected from harm but also much more affected by thrombi or plaque in the larger vessels blocking it.
I see few non-smokers with grey skin, to be honest. I did read once that an early ageing external appearance was a sign of a similar internal "ageing"; but that wasn't from a medical source. Many with rosy cheeks are overweight or have mild hypertension, too, of course, or over-indulge in alcohol (or has rosacea).
I'd have thought that to affect the microcirculation, whether to create vasodilation and vasoconstriction, an area under the extremely fine control of the autonomic nervous system, is potentially risky. To take drugs, whether as a "nutraceutical" or a pharmaceutical, to affect one of the body's most carefully balanced processes might well have the potential for long term consequences which would be better if tested (i.e. drugs) rather than experimented with (i.e. nutraceutical foods).
Chemists and medical researchers, in general, surely prefer a good diet with exercise every time over drugs, and I would think always have. Drugs are important only because they are measured and quantified in their contents and actions, unlike plants which are variable and contain a wide range of other active chemicals. Yes, drugs make vast profits, too, and I wish it were otherwise; repercussions are that some doctors fall foul of drug company persuasion. I wish it were otherwise.
Given a modicum of good luck, if we eat healthily from birth, enjoy the good life in moderation, as well as (perhaps...) avoiding modified as well as factory separated and concentrated food additives, then we'd likely live longer and more healthily (or, at least, to the natural span that our genetics determine).
Certain “grains” contain higher amounts of omega 6… this inflammatory to endothial cells..both in heart and brain.. inflammation causes the body to swamp the areas with cholesterol to try patch up … with the known knock on of plaque formation because the liver is limping due to the inability to reprocess ldl….omega 3 reduces inflammation.. thereby reduces endothelial damage..good evidence supports this…Two good sources Dr David Permutter MD… (Grain Brain)Dr William Davies MD
I envy your ability to sing. An elderly friend who sadly we just lost (at 94) was a marvellous singer and my wife, if she had more confidence, could be similar. It’s such a wonderful ability.
Singing and the diaphragm are intimately connected, too, so the heart could well be affected.
I had a bad cough & respiratory infection for a month from the Canadian wildfires so haven't sung for awhile, just getting back to it. Need to sing regularly to keep ectopics at bay! Have you tried singing for your ectopics? even if you just sing in the shower--or in the car!!
I have never since childhood been a salt lover (I was known as 'the rabbit' as a child because I loved green salads, but without a grain of salt or a salad dressing.) I have never added it to food, except a sprinkle these days of the pink stuff on a boiled egg. None the less, this has not prevented me from having BP that is higher than is desirable. So there is obviously enough in cheese and butter and crackers to provide more than we need. My late husband always piled salt on everything, even kippers, but was always sodium deficient. He later died of mantel cell lymphoma, whether this had anything to do with his craving for salt, I do not know. He never ate anything sweet,
My wife is a true salad person. I don’t dislike it at all and don’t usually salt it, except tomatoes but she will choose salad for a meal and relish it. Not me. My favourite is my wife’s home-made coleslaw which has just a little mayo in it!
I think in general that our genes hold the answers we need, rather than the environment. Yes - it’s often also what the environment does with the genes, for sure, but those little stores of life would be able to predict a lot of the future.
Steve
It makes you wonder why hospitals put you on a drip with sodium chloride… 900 grams a bag…if you come in poorly.
Sea salt has more potassium and magnesium included.
Get your taste buds checked… salt and sugar receptors often diminish as we age.
When I went vegan my BP dropped to normal, and when I looked up why it said that was because vegetables contained less salt when eaten raw like I do. The consequence of eating little salt is that I am very sensitive to it and cannot eat salty foods as they taste horrible to me and burn my mouth.
ANP will also remove salt from your system if your heart thinks there is a problem with too much salt causing the AF.
Yes, but some vegetables are not able to be eaten raw, like potatoes for instance. Carrots, courgettes, peas, spinach, radishes, lettice, are the vegetables I eat most days and they are fine raw. Pickled vegetables are added for more flavour and I also season with tumeric. Nuts are added to my meals for protein. I tend to have a cooked meal in the evenings which is when I often have a potato with vegetables and pickles.
Although I don't add salt and sodium comes from food, my sodium is in the high normal range.
Some sodium is found in meds too like potassium and one can have a toxicity in potassium.
I was reading the label on a constipation med and hesitant to take as it has both potassium and sodium in it. I'll keep on adding kiwi fruit to my bland organic full grain oats!
I do remember the case of a young child who added salt then denied using it and the child died!
I have seen at least one study talking about the importance of potassium over sodium as 2.0 or more. Perhaps its more important to increase most people - K. Its cheap and painless for 50/50 salt and liberally add on food and its great in coffee. For those trying to reduce salt and using 50/50 salt, that's a good way to cause borderline hyponatremia. Borderline hyponatremia could be quite dangerous without enough K - I am guessing. No testing on that probably.
4,700 mg K is the FDA suggestion. Almost everybody is around 2,000 mg or less. Potassium Gluconate with pills or powder are 'greatly' safer than potassium chloride. But the amount in potassium chloride in 50/50 salt used typically should be fine. Eating 4 potatoes is around 4 grams K daily - as a reference!
I'm not getting into this debate. However, I have never understood why there is a 'preference' for 'sea-salt'. All salt came originally from the sea, that from salt mines underground were deposited there millions of years ago from historic seas that have now disappeared. Modern sea salt is derived from our mankind polluted seas full of PCBs, nitrates, plastics and probably many other "forever" chemicals.
Except, apparently, for that underground ancient ocean bed in Utah that the Redmond RealSalt people say they are getting their salt from--unrefined/unprocessed and with 60+ trace minerals. They have an interesting story & pictures on their website. I've been using it for yrs because I like the taste. But I admit I'm suspicious of the source of many kinds of pink salts all labeled "Himalayan"! and the big brands like Morton that, as you say, market "sea salt" that's likely been sourced from some pretty polluted places.
I think the production process is likely going to remove all impurities as the salt is crystalline, with each grain, if I recall my fun with a microscope being a perfect cube.
I remember being shocked years back to discover companies like Morton were adding dextrose to their salt! (not sure about their "sea salt") Oh yeah, the tiny little cubes--as teenagers at a restaurant table, we'd balance the salt shaker on a couple of grains of salt. Didn't take much to entertain us, did it? Fun times! I think I'll try that, taking a friend to lunch today.
It’s fascinating, and complex. But isn’t this study looking at how the body works (in tiny detail) rather than at how the body deteriorates and what might help delay or even prevent that?
Homeostasis is a core aspect of the body’s functioning and intracellular ion and cation transport is central to this. The body stores the essential ions and cations to allow homeostasis to be maintained.
Well it depends if you wait until a problem occurs… or become proactive by maintaining adequate magnesium.. once you leech it out of tissue and bones.. water retention.. high blood pressure and arrhythmia.. begin … I think modern western diseases are diet driven… and the solution is not found with pills.. but correct dietary changes…. Calcium and sodium a plenty in most food sources.. magnesium not so.
The ATP binds with only one mineral… magnesium.. in order to referee the interaction between sodium and potassium.. the clue when imbalance occurs .. fluid in legs and lungs.. arrhythmias .. unstable blood pressure..fatigue.. twitching muscles..poor sleep… just my understanding…
Yes, I agree with that completely in terms of eating well from an early age, maintaining weight and exercising but I don’t agree that there there’s such as “leeching” going on. Foods contain all the necessary dietary requirements, I would argue - although some here see otherwise claiming magnesium, for example, is lower these days and so on. I’m not convinced that that is of consequence since a good diet still has excess of all nutrients, but I can see how and why these ideas arise. Vitamin D is a notable exception, perhaps.
That is so interesting. When I was having investigations a few years ago into exercise- induced migraine, I was referred to a cardiologist who got me to monitor my blood pressure. He said the same thing about the government pushing low sodium & told me that he suspected my blood pressure was dropping too low & told me to eat more salt. I have to say that a salty snack or even just eating a meal does ease the migraine a little. A few years later I developed AFIB 🙄.
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It is very detailed and fascinating. His opinion is that UPF is addictive because it never satisfies our nutritional needs. A large tome but easy reading for those of us interested in the subject.
Sea Salt
Salt and sodium?? How can you no if your water intake is doing more damage than good ❤️
Sea Salt Trial
