Alcohol & Persistent AF

[Fibber222]

I found when I had PAF that wine/trigger was a triggger for an episode. I was only a social drinker so I stopped drinking any alcohol. I’ve never really missed it but would like an odd glass of wine when in a social group. I’ve been in persistent for about a year now and am wary of trying again incase Inrevert to PAF again. Has anyone been in this position and what was the reaction if you had a drink?

[jeanjeannie50]

One glass of red wine is ok for me. Had a bottle of it last Sunday and went in to high rate AF which made me feel dreadful for days. I'm in constant AF.

Jean

[Fibber222 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Had you had PAF previously & did you drink then or was it a trigger? I read about your ‘adventure’ last Sunday!! I couldn’t bear it if it put me back into PAF. I’ve been persistent for a year now.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Fibber222]

Drink has always been a trigger, even when I had PAF.

[Fibber222 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

On reflection Jeannie I really don’t think I could risk going back into PAF again permanently. I had it for 5 years prior to going into persistent and I don’t think the risk of a glass of wine is worth trying it. At least now I don’t know I’ve got it and I’ve got a pretty good quality of life at the moment.

[Hidden]

I’m not medically trained and others may express a different view but as I understand it, AF is a progressive condition rather than a regressive one. Episodes of paroxysmal AF tend to get more frequent and longer over time before developing into persistent AF. I was diagnosed with lone persistent AF but after cardioversion I reverted to NSR for almost a year before AF returned and interestingly, after a day or so, I reverted back to NSR without medical intervention. My Cardiologist saw this as a plus and exclaimed “ah, paroxysmal AF, much easier to treat!

I guess you should seek proper medical advice, but personally, I would think it’s unlikely that persistent AF would revert to paroxysmal without some form of medical intervention, but if it did, would it necessarily be a bad thing🤷‍♂️

[Fibber222 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Flapjack,

Yes for me it would be worse. Now I’m in persistent I’m unaware of the Af except if I feel my pulse it would seem a bit irregular. When I had paroxsysmal I would have the distressing episodes of feeling like I had a box of frogs in my chest and a heart rate of 200 bpm latterly

These episodes lasted as long as 36 hours and even with my pill

In the pocket they were very scary. I would much rather have the persistent type of AF. I can live with this no problem but I don’t want to revert to paroxsysmal if I chance drinking alcohol,, as it was a trigger for the PAF so naturally I stopped having a drink. I just wonder if it would trigger PAF if I did partake and that wouldn’t be worth taking the chance.

[bobbyp28]

I would appreciate a simple talk about the nuances and differences between Lone Persistent and Parasox AF Many thx!

[Sixtyslidogirl in reply to bobbyp28]

My understanding is that lone AF just means no other comorbidities, but that it is not used much as a term these days. I’m not sure why but would hazard a guess that ‘really there isn’t such a thing as ‘lone’ in that there is always a reason you have AF even if they don’t know what the reason is. Paroxysmal just means from time to time.

[Hidden]

I worked for 40 years in the wine trade and believe me I love wine. When PAF struck at first I thought I could get away with wine occasionally but I was try to fool myself and all I got from it was often a grotty night’s sleep and a potentially worse day with a little PAF which is the very least laid me low for a few hours.

So reflecting that I had had the good fortune to drink many of the best wines in the world ( at mostly, very little cost to me 😉) I stopped and for a while reconciled myself to a sniff of a cork or a used wine glass while a tear rolled down my cheek.

Strangely, after a few weeks I didn’t miss it ! Then over time I lost weight ( take wine and associated nibbles away and say goodbye to unneeded calories) .

I had a few bad PAF attacks when my mother was dying things seemed to subside and then I discovered the gym and climbing.

So far AF appears occasionally in runs of about a minute ( I have a pacemaker which measures all this and confirms more or less what I feel) …and I feel well.

My diet is pretty good and I think balanced, not totally vegetarian as I love poultry, fish and occasional rabbit and goat but without doubt I believe forgoing alcohol was the single biggest positive step I made …and although some might find it boring not to drink I find it very freeing.

I don’t need alcohol to talk nonsense as my children remind me !

One word of warning …. Don’t go near dealcoholised wine !! IMO it is horrible, being either very acid and thin or very sweet and thin - even if they add bubbles 😵‍💫

Wine is great but ……,

[Rainfern in reply to Hidden]

I always hated the alcohol free - but there has been some welcome improvement in the past year or two!

[Hidden in reply to Rainfern]

mmmm I’m not sure but I’m always open to be learn about new things … please message me with those you’ve found ..

[Hershman in reply to Hidden]

I was a daily wine drinker before AF and needed something to replace it. Tried several and ended up with Nozeco Rose which I get from Tesco. I like dry wines and this one is on the dry side compared to a lot of the non-alcoholic wines and I drink half a bottle in the evening. I love Rose and the sparkle is great - there is a non Rose version as well. Note that some people think it tastes horrible and some love it so it is a matter of individual taste and there are a lot of these drinks with names like Nosecco and Nozecco from different places.

I have also started drinking Fentiman's Rose Lemonade which I discovered in a pub in London but can be got from Tesco and Amazon - it tastes delicate and rose perfumed. They both cost around the £3 mark a bottle depending where you get it and how much you buy. Must be fridge cold to stop being too sweet.

[Hidden in reply to Hershman]

Thanks - I’ll try …..

[Fibber222 in reply to Hershman]

Thank you for your suggestions. I’ll give them a try

[Bob56]

Lots of helpful comments already and no doubt that alcohol is a trigger for AF. To be a bit more precise, my cardiologist said that it was better to give up alcohol completely rather than revert to the odd glass. His point was that one glass could just as easily trigger AF as a whole bottle. In fact he said the alternative was to have the same amount each day so that your heart became conditioned to the alcohol. I’m not sure he would have been happy if I agreed and despite the attraction of a regular drink or two, I decided that total abstinence was best!

[Fibber222 in reply to Bob56]

Having read all the very helpful comments zi think I’m inclined to agree. At the moment I’m asymptomatic and want to stay that way so I’m inclined to agree.

[Thomas45]

I don't believe that alcohol was a trigger in my case Coffee ( not caffeine, but coffee itself) and soy products appeared to put me in AF.

I am in my 7th year of permanent, yet asymptomatic AF, after twenty years of paroxysmal AF.

I still drink alcohol but not much, not a glass in a social setting, but a sip at home. A bottle of wine normally lasts about five weeks. I haven't had any alcohol for four weeks. I've drank 5 bottles of wine in total during the last 12 months.

[Fibber222 in reply to Thomas45]

I am in the same position as you. In my case alcohol was a trigger for PAF which is why I’m wary now I’m persistent and asymptomatic. Thank you for your comment

[Mugsy15]

There is no doubt that alcohol is a trigger for AF in many people. But as you are already in persistent AF, that's not the issue for you. What you are actually wondering here is whether alcohol might trigger your heart back into part sinus rhythm, which doesn't seem logical at all to me. I have three friends with permanent, asymptomatic AF and they are all what most people would consider heavy drinkers, quite content (rightly or wrongly) that it won't make any difference now. In your place I'd have a single small glass to see how it went, and take 'baby steps' from there if unaffected. At 80 years young I think you deserve to savour the things you love!

[Fibber222 in reply to Mugsy15]

Hi Mugsy, maybe it wouldn’t make any difference now I am in persistent. It’s just that I’m

Scared that it would put me back into paroxsysmal & those awful episodes again. Thank you for your reply.

[2learn]

depends what you mean by social drink. I only drank in company, ie social drinking, but that might mean 6-8 pts. Couple of years ago I got gout, v painful and now only drink perhaps 1-2 glasses of wine a week, often none at all. I find it easier to cut out rather than try to manage or moderate. Have discovered alcohol free Guiness and would recommend this if you like guiness.

[Barlick43]

I’m 80:like you. My social life as a single in a gated community is centred around a drink 5-6 pm with 6-8 similarly placed people. I am in permanent AF and pacemaker dependant. I find I can have 1-2 gin and tonics/sparkling water any day ok but a second wine hits me about midnight with heavy palpitations that can stop me from going to sleep. I live with it and even suffer the consequences should I allow my self more. I was told the detox products of alcohol might trigger AF rather than the alcohol. Don’t know enough about chemistry to comment.

[MummyLuv]

I use to drink a couple of glasses of wine when in persistent and that was absolutely fine, if I overdid it my heart raced, 200 plus box still in afib.

[Dollcollector]

It was overdoing the alcohol that started my afib in the first place..( 1 evening). Normally l was just a social drinker 1 or 2 nights a week. The cardiologist told me , in the future , no alcohol, no caffeine, ( which includes chocolate) no fizzy drinks. I abide by that except for 1 mug of tea to start the day. To me it is just not worth the risk . I would rather feel well. I drink water all day long plus herbal drinks ,malted drinks and fresh fruit juices.

[fibnum]

I recommend that you pour apple or grape juice into a wine glass and sip it as though it were fine wine. Plug in your imagination and acting skills and party away! Maybe have a third small glass and ask someone to drive you home.

I haven't had any alcohol for about 3 years. Strangely enough, my body doesn't seem to have suffered from not getting enough alcohol.

[Snowgirl65]

Three words: Don't Do It. Alcohol was a major trigger for me, and just having that "occasional" one could put me back on the path again. In my case, I won't risk it.

[Fibber222 in reply to Snowgirl65]

I take your point. I feel so well in persistent AF now & I think to take the risk would be awful if it triggered a full blown epidode of paroxsysmal AF that I suffered for years before I converted to persistent. Are you in persistent AF now Snowgirl?

[Snowgirl65 in reply to Fibber222]

I'm so glad you agree -- I haven't had an episode since my last ablation in December 2022 (my third). I haven't had any alcohol since 2014, but still have a pantry full of wine bottles that have probably gone bad by now!

[Fibber222 in reply to Fibber222]

A trigger that would make my persistent type of AF go back to the paroxsysmal type of AF which is very debilitating.

[Mugsy15 in reply to Snowgirl65]

A trigger to what though? A trigger to AF?

In which case you're advising someone with persistent AF how to avoid triggering AF?

Am I missing something here?

[Fibber222 in reply to Mugsy15]

Hi Mugsy, I have persistent AF. I don’t know I have it apart from an ECG or if I take my pulse. I converted to this type of AF a year ago from paroxsysmal AF. I had paroxsysmal AF for many years & it was very debilitating-very fast uneven heart rate for hours on end and then go into sinus. One of the triggers that caused these episodes was alcohol. I stopped drinking alcohol. My question is: now I have a different type of AF - i.e. persistent, would alcohol trigger me back into paroxsysmal and cause those horrible episodes?

[Mugsy15 in reply to Fibber222]

I'm not medically trained and even if I were it wouldn't grant me a crystal ball! It would be irresponsible of me to claim I know it can't happen. But my understanding of the stages of AF is that it typically progresses from Paroxysmal, in which episodes may become increasingly debilitating and regular, to persistent. Indeed this was my experience. Those people who are able to identify triggers and avoid them are trying to slow down or stop that linear progression. I've never heard of and personally can't conceive of a situation in which alcohol would trigger a reversal of that progression, restoring some sinus rhythm.

Whilst I personally don't believe that would happen, what I could accept as possible is that your persistent AF could become more symptomatic due to alcohol. From what you've written I'm sure you want to avoid that, so your decision must be either to avoid altogether any possibility of that, or have a small glass then monitor the effects. In your position that's what I'd do, but one thing this forum proves every day is that we're all different!

I wish you the best of luck, whichever you choose!

[Fibber222 in reply to Mugsy15]

Thank you Mugsy.

[Squeak3]

I am 70 and have been a heavy drinker all my life. The booze caused my Afib a year ago. It was stop drinking or say good-bye. Been totally dry now over a year and flecainide has the Afib under control. Sometimes we have to bite the bullet.