I am reaching out again to you wonderful people. Can you tell me if irregular heartbeat usually below 100, sometimes a bit over for five minutes is also atrial fibrillation. Are they the same thing I would like to understand - how this works.
I have now had irregular heart beat that I can feel for 19 days . It used to be a few hours or days. Sometimes I cant function very well and it makes me feel horrible. The cardiologist in the past said that if my heart is under 100 it is okay. Sometimes my blood pressure goes down. I take appixaban. I have metoprolol but cant take because of my blood pressure.
Can someone tell me does medication ( may not be right terminology) stop irregular heartbeat or would it always be there and you just dont feel it. Can you tell me how it works. I was told that my blood pressure has no relationship to my heart which seems odd.
I would be grateful for knowledge thanks.
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kitttycat
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Can't be much help really, more so because you are in Canada and I'm in UK. Also I'm not medically qualified.
Next, I would think in your packet of pills is a bit of paper which should talk extensively about metoprolol .... which as far as I know is a member of the family of beta blockers. Incidently, is it Metropolol Succinate we are talking about of Metropolol Tartrate ........... probably splitting hairs ..... but there maybe differences in the medication. If you can't get to your family Dr. quickly I would go to your local Pharmacy and discuss your problems with the Pharmacist. As a matter of interest I am on Bisoprolol, hopefully changing soon to Nevibolol. Again all part of the same family of drugs.
It seems to be widely accepted that any heart rate in the range 60 to 100 is acceptable. With the benefit of hindsight I think thats a load of rubbish ! If its faster or slower than that range it is referred to as Bradycardia or Tachycardia. I spent years with the heart rate of 88 to 95 and what happened ..... paroxysmal AF mugged me with my heart rate being clocked at 156. But the AF diagnosis only came after an ECG and was diagnosed by an A & E doctor and confirmed by a Cardiac Consultant. My Bisoprolol nowadays holds my daytime heart rate at around 64 to 67 bpm and asleep, around 50 to 55 bpm - sometimes as low as 44 to 46. So if you haven't had an ECG it would be hard to say if you have AF or not.
My laymans understanding of these family of drugs is that they control heart rate and contribute to a lowering of blood pressure, but there maybe other features which are beyond me. Apixaban is an anticoagulant aimed at reducing your stroke risk.
Also bear in mind some people can be asymptomatic, that is they can have AF but feel no symptoms of it at all.
How it all works - your question - I'll leave someone else to comment.
thank you so much for this reply it has given me some understanding. This is the type of information I am looking for. I have an appointment with another cardiologist in mid August but may have to do something before thank you again I appreciate it.
The only way to know what arrhythmia you have is by an ECG (EKG) when AF is easily seen due to lack of p wave. Guessing is a mugs game. See your doctor.
Blood pressure is all part of the circulation system pumped by your heart though may be affected by how wide or otherwisee your arteries are and how well hydrated you are. For example dehydration can casue low blood pressure which can be sorted by drinking more water. High blood pressure is usually treated by drugs to dilate the arteries.
Beta blockers do not generally stop AF , they slow the heart whilst in AF to a more acceoptable level. Th.ere are drugs such as amiodarone, flecainide and propafanone which are rhythm control drugs and which aim to stop AF and maintain normal sinus rhythm,(not always successful)
It is important to understand that any and all treatment is only for symptom control or as we say , quality of life (QOL) and there is no "best" option, only what works for you.
Hello Bob thank you very much for getting back to me. What I noticed about my blood pressure is that it only happens when I have irregular heartbeat, usually after a while. Thanks for telling me about the beta blockers and rhythm control drugs as I had no idea that there were two types of drugs. I will be seeing another cardiologist in mid August, but might have to do something before.
Blood pressure typically plays up when we have an AF episode because of the irregular heart beat. The two are interlinked. It sounds like you need more information about all of this. There are some nice leaflets produced by the Arrhythmia Alliance on AF. Maybe check these out? Perhaps one of the adminsjess-admin could help you.
Hi kittycat, (mine is called Mikka), let’s assume your irregular heartbeat is AF. AF can occur at any rate - above 100 it is called ‘AF with RVR (rapid ventricular response)’ and generally that is considered bad for your heart in the long term so medication is aimed at slowing that rate down and keeping BP ‘normal’. It is possible to have either rate without feeling anything except possibly a bit tired but either rate can also make you feel ‘horrible’ - not sure why but I think it depends a bit on how uneven the beats are and variation in strength.
Some medication can stop irregular heartbeats altogether for at least some of the time but you would still have the tendency to have AF - no medication cures it. The problem arises when you need the medication either when in AF or not. If your HR is fast in AF you need meds to slow it, but the same meds will make your heart too slow when not in AF! If you usually have high BP keeping it lower helps to prevent AF but when in AF which messes up your BP it may be too much or not enough. Doctors tend to prescribe for the ‘worst case scenario’ ie fast AF/high BP which as Jean was recently pointing out can make you feel worse the rest of the time so it’s very tricky if you have PAF (AF comes and goes) which is why ablation is favoured to try to stop the rollercoaster affecting your heart.
Hello Buttafly: Thank you for getting back to me and letting me know all of this this. I can see the complications that can arise, hopefully my heart will never go above 100 and that will take some of this potential complication away. I just want this to get straightened out because its starting to affect me. I have never had irregular heartbeat last so long. I will be seeing another cardiologist in mid August for a second opinion. Thanks again.
You need to remember that most of us are not medically trained therefore any and everything that is said by members which might effect you directly should be discussed with your doctor.
As Ben has said, in the UK, normal heart rate is 60 to 100 beats per minute and from what you say, you are generally within that range. You need to bear in mind that it is often difficult to accurately determine an irregular heart rate without the use of a monitor so be careful to be sure your rate is within range. Beta Blockers and calcium channel blockers primarily reduce heart rate and reduce blood pressure so assuming your assessment is correct, this would explain why your Cardiologist has decided not to prescribe medication.
Beta blockers do not treat an irregular heartbeat, arrhythmia drugs such as Flecainide are used to do this but if used regularly (daily) they should only be taken if beta blockers/calcium channel blockers are also prescribed. Taking an arrhythmia drug (Flecainide etc) without beta blockers can cause other arrhythmias so you must seek professional guidance.
Some AF patients are asymptomatic which means they are not aware of their irregular heartbeat which, of course is great but what is not so great is that if they are not diagnosed, they are unlikely to be taking an anticoagulant so they may be at risk of having a stroke. Nothing is simple, is it! To make matters even more complicated, when in AF it’s virtually impossible to accurately measure blood pressure using a home monitor.
There are treatments available but they are not without risk and because your AF burden is relatively low, your Doctor may be reluctant to pursue unless your quality of life deteriorates. Hope this helps……
Hello Flapjack, thanks so much for this, it sheds some light on the whole thing I am asking about. I am starting to get some sense of this now. I have also been concerned wondering if the irregular beats are dangerous to the heart over time. I am seeing another cardiologist in mid August. Now that I am starting to understand this, I think I can handle it better. thank you again. Thank you again.
Rule one is to be CONTROLLED from a high H/R over 100.
I was left so I think that caused my enlarged heart.
Check on your B12 a special blood test and raise it to 700 if you are over 60 years.
Sunshine and Vitamin D important.
Keep hydrated and eat nuts, seeds and piece banana daily. Drink plenty of water daily and remember when you awake every morning you will need to water to raise your dehydration.
Hi thanks, I still have the information you gave me on food - I keep a copy in my kitchen in my knife rack looking at me. I try to do all these things. I will follow the control you mentioned. thanks for this, appreciate it.
I have a Kardia .. bought from Amazon .... and this is great and so handy to use you can take your ecg when you have the symptoms rather than when you're with the Dr so you can download the results to your phone to show them
It will give you a good indication whether/when you are in AF of not and your heart rate at the time
AF on its own is very common and usually controlled by medication but if you have an episode with a very high Heart rate at the same time as AF the risks are much greater
Hello I just answered your note and it disappeared in case you get this twice. I looked at the Kardias' on Amazon and was thinking of getting one. I appreciate the afib information. Everything is helpful to me. thanks again
Hello House thanks for your note. This is now my third response to you, my message disappeared twice, in the event you get them, - I was thinking of buying a Kardia. I looked at them on amazon. I think it could be very good to have. Thank you for the afib information. I appreciate it because its important that I really understand this. Thanks again.
AF is an irregular heart beat and can be rapid or slow.
All Anaesthetists would want your H/R at rest 100 or less.
At the hospitalisation of my Stroke, I was diagnosed with Stroke Embolic with AF but 4 days in the Carotid arteries neck scan the young scanner said I always check your thyroid .. oops you have a shadow on yours. The boss needs to look.
My AF was set at rapid and persistent. Meaning I am in AF all the time and even at night asleep with a H/R avge of 47.
So you see AFers can be persistent, intermittent-alot or sometimes. It means that a ECHO Scan/MRI of heart needs to be done, an ECG, a 24-hour monitor with every change of meds.
Specialists put AF down to rogue electric reactions which are not normal and a ECG usually says abnormal if you have it whilst in AF mode.
I cannot have flecainide a rhythm control drug because of an enlarged back chamber showing and measured on my ECHO. I can't have an ablation and wasn't given a cardioversion.
But by controlling my Day H/R now down to 60s, and BP controlled by BB Beta Blocker Bisoprolol. Metoprolol gave me 2 pauses x 2 seconds at night when my normal is 47avge bpm.
It was the introduced CCB Calcium Channel Blocker which slowed my heart from 156 on latter med.
Some Afers live with their irregular heart. It's usually symptoms that indicate that meds are required.
Then it's a wait and see with each introduction of a different med.
Be patient but get the best Dr/Specialist who listens and understands your health needs.
Hi Kittycat - this may (or may not help) but here's an ECG from my Wellue chest monitor at around 54bpm. The diagnostics told me AF and ectopics. My AF is exercise induced - this is a few hours after a ride. Got back from the ride at 7am and went to hospital at 2pm after going like this all day. By the time they got the ECG attached I was back in nsr. My normal trace is much more uniform with a P wave.
Other features for me is that when like this any exertion (like walking up stairs) increases my hr much more than normal and my heart pounds a bit - it's all over the shop with lots of pauses and runs. Thankfully happens rarely. I always associated af with an elevated HR but in my case I think it can be present much lower. Hope this helps.
It might be, KC. There are two fairly common causes of an irregular heartbeat, one being much less common is atrial fibrillation. The most common is caused by ectopic beats which cause palpitations to be felt. These are said to be of no consequence as they don’t lead to blood clotting as AF can. The second most common cause is AF which, although it’s a problem of only the top chambers of the heart, sadly, it causes the bottom ventricles to beat irregularly, also.
Heart rate is the speed of the beating or pulse, not its regularity. A rate of over 100, if sustained, is considered unhealthy as, in the long term, it can weaken the valves and the lower pumping chamber (the left ventricle).
Hi good morning thanks for your note. I am note sure what Ectopic beats are but will check this out- the information is helpful and provides information I need, I am gaining more insight into this now - i just want to feel better. Its a mystery to me why the irregular hb has gone on so long now, when before it was only for a few hours or days. I guess I am starting to assume the longer you have these things the greater they become. Thanks again
Doctors often say that "AF begets AF", meaning that once the heart cells become sensitised, weakened or whatever the cause, it tends to worsen, but this can be over decades, years or whatever. Many people end up with a change from occasional ("paroxysmal") AF to a permanent form. There's some evidence that treating it early is better. The main problems with AF are that is can cause small clots to form in the atrium and can also cause racing ("tachycardia").
An ectopic beat occurs because heart cells not only contract in response to the correct signal sent from the heart's natural pacemaker, the sino-atrial or SA node, but can all also themselves send out signals to cause other heart cells to contract. When this occurs, the result is "ectopy", which is a heart beat that shouldn't be there, as it were. These ectopic beats can originate from cells in the top of the heart (premature atrial contractions, or, PACs) or the bottom (PVCs). The result is a beat that comes in slightly too early and which forces the natural beat to come in after a pause (a "compensatory pause"). This makes the beat feel more forceful as more blood is coming into the ventricle. The feeling is of "palpitations" or "skipped beats".
Hi Steve thanks for this explanation, there is a lot to learn. I am still in the stage where some of it is making me feel not so great mentally, but learning and understanding helps for sure. I appreciate all the information from everyone. Thank you for your help and getting back to me.
I wonder if a smart watch or a Kardia would be worthwhile or give you some peace of mind. I opted for a 6-lead which works very well for me in showing whether I'm in AF or possible AF. Readings are available in PDF and can be sent to yourself or your doctor, or you can bring it on your phone to your appointment.
You can ask your doctor if your irregular heartbeats are ectopics and might be a precursor to an AFib episode. My specialist tells me AF always starts with ectopics.
There are rhythm meds and rate meds - not the same thing. My AF is "fast" (well over 100) and makes me very sort of breath. Rythmol (propafenone) is a rhythm med that I take if an AF episode incapacitates me and after a couple of hours it settles me.
My BP also tends to drop with an AF attack. Mine has dropped as low as 80/50 and I felt terrible - weak and started blacking out. I'm also on apixaban and I don't want to pass out and possibly hit my head. You may want to bring readings and averages to your appointment.
I'm in Canada too. There is a big variation in types of AF so what works for one may very well not work for another. We can't advise you. I hope you have a reliable cardiologist.
Hi thanks for getting back to me I am in Toronto. I have been thinking about a Kardia that it might be good to have and will look into this. I dont know what ectopics are so I will have to look this up. I was never given very much information. Cardiologist never told me I could have ongoing episodes of irr hb or af., so it all kind of shocked me. I am now in day 20 (of irreg hb and this is why i am wondering is it also afib )and before it was a few hours or days. I have a similar thing about my blood pressure dropping. I appreciate all of this information. I will be seeing another cardiologist in mid August. Thanks a lot for this. Appeciate it
Hi there kittycat, I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this. Your story is similar to mine before I had an ablation. I had to switch several cardio doctors before finding a Electrophysiologist who was more helpful and a bit more knowledgeable. I too had low pressure and felt terrible. One doctor had put me too on metopolol, in which my blood pressure really plummeted. He took me off it then. I also had a doctor tell me that the blood pressure had nothing to do with it. Well I have to say that after my ablation it is much more regulated. And also many of my questions that I had for them was like they had no idea. They just wanted to put me on drugs. It is all so very frustrating. I'm so thankful for now that I doing well! I pray that you will get the help that you need and on your way to a better way of living!! 💞
Hello Sozo, the cardiologist I have is also an electrophysiologist and he also said my blood pressure had nothing to do with my heart which is why I am seeing another cardiologist in mid August. It has to have something to do with it because I only get it with irregular hb. I wasnt given too much information and this is helping me to gain others' stories and knowledge. I am gaining more understanding and know more what to ask going forward. thanks very much for sharing your experience. appreciate it.
I have slow afib, every few days, stress-related. My normal resting heart rate is under 70, my afib (as confirmed by Kardia) rate is about 15-20 bpm faster. I do take 1 to 1.5 metoprolol tabs (25 mg each, I think) a day. I'm not very symptomatic, true sympathies to all who have terrible symptoms, which I used to have, though I do feel more tired and out of breath in afib, and my chest feels thumpy. I can't take apixaban regularly because it makes me itch intensely. I wish there was more info about nattokinase capsules. I wonder if the drug company that makes apixaban is suppressing the info somehow.
Hello Whats - thanks for getting back to me and sharing your story and for the information. The metoprolol seems to be working for you, but I am sorry to hear you cant take the appixaban on a regular basis. I am going to check out slow afib. Thanks again
Hi, thanks for your note, I guess its really imporant to keep faith. I am very grateful for tis forum though, because I didnt learn very much from the cardiologis. Thanks again.
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