My PAFs usually begin in the early evening or at night in bed. I am wondering if my cold shower regime really helps end them or might just be random. The last few times when I get up in AFib in the morning, I shower/douse myself with freezing water to get the "gasp effect" and then as I move around to start my day I am back sinus within 5 minutes. I have tried to do this right at the start of an event (in the evening or at night) but to no avail. Could it be the AFib "wants" to do its awful stuff for at least a number of hours and only then is ready to be vagally forced back into sinus?Or might the cold showers having nothing to do with anything and its more the moving around to start the day?
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agnostic1
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a lukewarm shower always gets me back in rhythm so I’m kind of lucky in a way. I have to wait a few hours before I shower, just to let the AF settle down a bit, get the initial shock out of the way and let the dizziness stop. But then the shower has worked so far 😊
From what I've noted after reading posts on here and its predecessor forum on Yahoo (now defunct) is that AF will always try and have its wicked way ... always. By comparison to many souls on here, past and present, I've had a dream run ... an absolute dream.
So, why ?
I hold the unscientific and quite unverifiable view that it arises because my GP back in the day (Jan. 2010) got me into A & E where a smart young lady Dr diagnosed me with paroxysmal AF and a meds treatment started in 9 hours from onset. Even luckier when you consider the start of my AF made me feel like I was going down with flu. The AF was cunning enough to try and disguise itself as flu. The first I realised that I had a problem was when my BP dropped from around 136/80 to 76/50 in a few hours ....... my Apollo 13 moment ... "Houston, we have a problem" !! It was that massive drop in BP made me phone my GP ... the rest is history.
No, I am saying that I have no scientific proof that diagnosing AF in as little time as 9 hours and starting medication at that time has had a big benefit for me. I personally believe it has - I think in getting on top of it so quickly prevented the AF gremlin from remoulding my heart. Yes, the inital impact damaged my heart ... that damage according to my last ECG is still there and it has not reversed. Nor will it. The fact that I haven't had an AF event for around 12 to 18 months is due to correctly identifying the trigger ( which not everyone can do).
I agree re prompt diagnosis. I was diagnosed in A&E on my first episode which lasted long enough to be logged. Having failed on Bisoprolol I have been on flecainide since 2nd episode a month later. I now have very brief episodes ( minutes, deep breaths, cold splash of water wrist and face about once a month) but they still wipe me out the following day
I was put on both Bisoprolol & flecainide, my consultant said I had to have Bisoprolol with the flecainide.
Had to change recently to Dronedarone as had couple of episodes in March and April and later month episode lasted 4 days 😵💫 Been under lot of stress which I think caused them.
Food, ingredients of food, gluten, Wheat and oats. I have been food aware since 2011 and followed advice of a Nutritionist -not the NHS ! Over this time I have been able to return on a limited basis to some food stuffs, including some wheat stuff ... but not many. Drinks, hot, cold alcoholic ... whatever, have never been an issue for me. Just food.
Thank you. I find it interesting that as a nurse we never saw the number of AFib that we see now. Could be all the chemicals, and GMO, and processing in fof in the last 15+ years. Thank you again and best wishes.
Quite agree, farming use of chemicals definately, massive amount of processed foods in the food chain these days, the fast food availability too - all accounts for something - and then there is the often overlooked - genetic predisposition to a dysfunctional vagal nerve and food setting it off. I can still remember (as a kid) going to the butchers and grocers with my mothers ration books for her shopping errand. We were all healthier and fitter then. We also exercised more ... I remember cycling to High School and home, 6 miles a day. When at Primary School .... walking there and back home, about a mile a day.
Actually she says nothing because I have no need to discuss with her my AF. It ( AF) gives me no problems these days. All controlled with diet and meds ...I have nothing to say to her or any other GP. She is a different GP to the one who sent me to A&E in January 2010 when my AF was first diagnosed ...in 9 hours from onset.
For high BP = Ramipril and Felodopine and for AF and its allies (stroke) = Bisoprolol and Warfarin.
Diet started with my Nutritionist administering a course of Probiotics - then - Gluten free, wheat free and oats free and the rest of it I have evolved myself. Very little dairy produce at all. My food plan (diet) is something of a journey of trial and error and keeping a food diary since 2011, so it may not suit everyone. No soft cheese, hard cheese Ok, skimmed milk is OK, Alcohol is OK, Coffee and tea OK, no roast pork ( with crackling) - no roast duck, the fat in both will crucify me and put me in the cot or in the bathroom. No lettuce, no onion but shallots are OK as are Radish, Rocket is Ok ... tomatoes in moderation. and so it goes on and on.
If one does think about it your BP will alter according to weather conditions ie Winter/Summertime or to be more accurate whether you are warm or freezing cold. It is my reasoning that your blood vessels are going to restrict on a cold shower, therefore altering the pressure your blood is travelling around your body which is in imo going to make your heart pump "less" or "more" (a bit of trickery if you like). As there are many opposites in life and if I get overly hot it will start my Afib off so I guess as uncomfortable as it may be - a freezing shower will at [times] stop it, although as we all know - as one door opens - another one closes 🙄
Its not the only thing either ... my arthritic pain, real bloody pain, varies summer and winter .... high barometric pressure along with low humidity gives me a pain free life. Low barometric pressure and v high humidity gives me bloody awful pain.
John
Brrr ! No cold shower needed! I wake up regularly with AF, but as soon as I get up and get active, it goes back to NSR, in which I remain for the whole day. Such a good thing, this AF - nothing to be seen from outside, no pain, nobody knows that I have it. Being bald is far worse, it is easily visible...
As with most things there are differentials and Afib can be and is much worse than what you appear to have. As a thought; if you are getting it nightly then your HR might just be going too low. If you are on medication then it's possible that the strength may need reducing to allow your HR to come up a shade.
Completely agree with you that AF can be very different in different people. I am of the lucky ones, with very mild symptoms, hence my statement about AF being better than being bald, lol.
I am not on any medication, even not on anticoagulant. My view is that medical science does not know enough, not only about AF, but about many other health problems. I always was ready to research and experiment, so am doing it with AF also. It is risky, but what do I have to loose...? Couple of years. Not worried at all, and somebody must have the courage to experiment...
I'm in much the boat, no pills of any sort, when it happens I just carry on doing whatever I'm doing, mostly hits after evening meal. I take it to bed and hope it will have gone by morning. It often has or does in a couple of hours. I've done my weight training with it, so far I've not had any bad problems so why tinker with it.
My idea is to test the quality of my genes. I am from relatively long lasting family, where people have lived up to 99,9 years (grand-grandmother from my mother's side), but many over 90. If I take any medication, I will never know if the problems come because my body has got weaker, or as the consequence of medications. Couple of years ago, it was admitted from the drug producers that some medications for high BP, are actually leading to cancer. Lately, Pfizer has admitted the same, for 3 of his BP medications. No, I do not trust to big pharma.
As for the weight training when in AF, I would hesitate to do it...AF regime is not natural way of working for the heart and its efficiency is reduced for about 30% when in AF. Why not await to switch back into NSR, and then exercise...? BTW, I stopped exercising about 10 years ago, when I was 60 yo, and still do not feel that I am loosing my fitness. So, making a pause will not spoil yours too.
My AF is infrequent and unpredictable apart from about 30 seconds before when I have a hot flush. I only train twice a week and in 6 years have only been in AF twice. I've had breaks, mainly because of the Covid debacle and just picked up where I left off without issue. It's made a big difference to me so I've no plans to stop. I'm 72 going on 50 something lol. No long-livers in my family, oldest so far was mum at 82. Dad went at 39 with a brain tumour, Mum via a stroke, one brother at 44 in an RTC and my other brother to prostate cancer at 76. Sister 75 has had ovarian cancer recently and I doubt she is free of it despite the chemo (I'll never have chemo), I'm the fittest of the lot so far lol. I hope to carry on for a while at least
So sorry to hear that people go so early in your family... Actually, in my broader family, we had also some early deaths - I lost two cousins at the age of 40 and one at the age of 47 (cancer, liver problems, cancer).
You are lucky to have so rare AF bouts. It means that you are at the very beginning with AF (it is known that the condition is progressive and ends up as a permanent AF). In my country, average life span for males is 74 years and for females 78 years. I take some 3-4 years for guarantied, lol (now almost 71). Any additional year will be gratefully accepted, lol!
I was an ambulance trip to a&e. Was put on meds including anticoagulant. I don’t go to the drs unless I have to but with a paternal history of deadly strokes I can’t risk not taking them, hate the side effects. And the drugs quite often aren’t tested In enough women so we’re probably overdosed. Currently taking 400 Dronedarone and probably one size pill suits all 😵💫
I’ve been getting bradycardia at night and sometimes while sitting. Last week I went for an ultrasound and sat up , really dizzy 😵💫 I’m not sure what’s causing the bradycardia, wether is AF or the pills. Think it’s causing tiredness too.
Thanks for posting, which has raised some interesting contributions.
My guess is the way your AF stops is more the morning up beat body although cold showers may help by adding the 'fight or flight' shock effect. I guess you test this by having a normal temp shower for the next couple of times AF occurs.
Do you have a pulse in the 50's/low 60's and also maybe lowish BP? I always remember one comment by a medic or was it on here, who said when the HR sinks later in the day and you relax watching TV or going to bed, the 'big base drum quietens down and gives the little drummers (aka AF) chance to start up'. I dealt with this in my early AF days by winding down slower in the evening and going to bed before I was dead tired.
Generally, moderation in all things and steady approach stabilises the heart; this in my case has meant daily Flecainide rather than PIP.
Cold showers increase vagal tone, and this may be why it helps you. I cold shower briefly after my usual shower and am thinking of looking into cold water swimming in the future. But in a wetsuit.
not to rain on the cold water swimming parade but be very gentle about getting in so you don’t surprise your heart too much, or get too cold. I am a cold water swimmer but paradoxically sim not to get too chilled and warm up in the sauna afterwards.
Oh absolutely! I'd be super careful but it's on my wishlist and one had to have wishlists don't you think? Happy to hear you do OK in the sauna top- I miss saunas and steam rooms. Am now 13 months AF free so am hopeful.
Fascinating post and responses. I might try the cold shower effect..... Well tepid fir me! Recently I wake every morning with my heart racing. No idea why. It usually stops when I get up or sit up. At first I thought it was the timing of my medication (Verapamil) but I don't think it is because my 12 hrs aren't up until 2 hrs after I get up. It doesn't do it in the evening when I'm sat. During the day I get sporadic episodes which have no rhyme or reason. But the fist thing in the morning is a daily thing now. Maybe I need my vagal tone improving...
I suppose you haven't recently.changed your thyroid dose? Our metabolism does increase immediately on waking anyway- supposed to happen - but should settle down again soon after, once you've kinda peaked. Have a browse about the different metabolic states that are normal as this might help with management.
No it's not down to my thyroid meds. That hasn't changed, levels are optimal as usual and when I wake I haven't taken them.. Not the hot weather as it was happening before then. Maybe it's progression..... Lol....
You are brave, I don't think it's a method I would consider ! it's 20C here and sunny and freezing cold,and I'm just about to turn on the underfloor heating in my bathroom before I take a shower at the hottest I can bear!
not to disappoint you but to chase the triggers and measures to go back to sinus rhythm is a mad game. It might help on short run and since Afib is a progressive disease it will beat you on a long run. So medical treatment, ablation and or mini maze and control and manage all the risks factors of Afib is the right path to follow. And it will give you a QOL.
My guess is it's the movement which is activated (the movement, it's what wakes you up) by a change in your BP, so it's just your heart doing it's thing.
I believe increasing my heart rate quickly, worked for me. Originally diagnosed in 1993 and by chance going for a quick series of sprints got me back into Sinus. My recurrences were approx every 4-5 years and each time doing short sprints worked most times on other occasions I tried jumping into a cold pool and bingo worked again. In 2022 went into AF again and got into Cardiologist then next day. He put me on Flec and beta blockers and told me not to try the sprints or cold pool trick. I guess my HR was controlled and it would have been hard to revert with sprints or cold water. I was cardioverted to get back to sinus after a couple of weeks. I believe the sprints or cold pool worked like a CV for me in previous years.
Everyone is different is the key message and what i tried might not work for others and could in fact be risky.
I'm sure the cold water and "gasp effect" converts you. I once saw a TV show, where an unorthodox resident threw a tray of ice water unexpectantly on an afib patient to convert him It's a vagal thing. Just remember, what can convert you from afib to normal rhythm can often be the same thing that can cause afib. My first afib trigger was drinking iced beverages. I no longer do that nor take iced showers
I just got out of ER because Afib decided to kick in after dinner and time for bed. I tried cold water splashing on my face, the breathing through a straw and walking around a bit. Nothing worked. So 4 hours in ER !!
A cold shower set me back into NSR a couple of times, but I never knew if it indeed was what caused it to work, or it my heart was "ready" to get back then in the first place!
I have to exercise my way out of afib but it never works in the first few days although I try. If I have an injury and can't run or cycle the afib never goes away. It has lasted up to 16 days sometimes. I think your right in that the afib likes to give you a hard time before it relents. By the way I have tried everything else including ice cold baths and showers and they never work. We're all different.
What meds are you taking for AFIB? I was on flectnide for a couple of years and he took me off because I was getting fatty tissue around my heart! Now they have to find something else to help!
I'm not sure about cold showers but the Vagus Nerve can flip you back into sinus for sure . But if you remain out if sinus for too long nothing will bring you back in the long term. I think keeping your heart rate low is the key. If mine rises for any length of time I flip our of sinus. Even if you are in permanent AF non sinus so long as it doesn't affect your daily life and you are on a blood thinner and controlled blood pressure. Don't fret. For me a beta blocker is the saviour not flecanide but we are all different. If you are very slim and eat a lot and never gain wait you will have an overactive thyroid. Unfortunately your GP will only test T4 & TSH whilst your T3 could be through the roof. Similarly you might actually be borderline Hyperthyroidism but most doctors leave alone. But if you have palpitations you better beware.
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It's a vagal thing. Just remember, what can convert you from afib to normal rhythm can often be the same thing that can cause afib. My first afib trigger was drinking iced beverages. I no longer do that nor take iced showers 
Cold - but not cold !
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