heart keep healing after ablations

[Afib_girl]

I was first diagnosed in Dec 2021. Had my first cyro ablation end of June 2022 which didn’t work at all… then went to do radio frequency ablation Feb 2023 with a different dr (head of department) which lasted a month.. now he wants to another one in July. He thinks my heart is just healing and erasing all the work. I am still debating whether to do the third one. If my heart just heals over won’t the same thing happen again? I get afib every other day for hours, no medication works. And I’m in my 30s. I’m really at a pass on what to do… esp if I do the ablation again and the same thing happens. Any thoughts… I’m in the United States.

[mjames1]

I would collect your medical records and get a second opinion with an ep at a top ten cardiac rated teaching hospital. Or if you're already at one, get the opinion at another top ten hospital. If not local, many may still be doing remote video consults. You might also get a third opinion from an ep that does mini maze or Hybrid.

Jim

[Afib_girl in reply to mjames1]

I am currently seeing best in my state… and this is my third dr.

[mjames1 in reply to Afib_girl]

We have a big country and sometimes you have to kiss a lot of Frogs. Three sometimes isn't enough until you find your Prince

Here's where you can see where your hospital stacks up.

health.usnews.com/best-hosp...

As mentioned, intial consults can often be done remote and if you find the right fit, some travel may be worth it for the actual procedure.

Jim

[Megams in reply to mjames1]

~Great reply which made me smile - wish we had such an easy way to find top EP's in NZ - just a little country in comparison to the USA and the number of teaching hospitals you appear to have - what an awesome choice

[mjames1 in reply to Megams]

Yes, my answer was specific to the US, where the OP lives and I'm aware not as easy to "shop" ep's in some other places. Also, in the US, it depends on what type of insurance plan you have. I have standard Medicare, which I qualified for because of age, and it allows me to self refer to as many doctors (including ep's) as I want. Not all plans are like that.

So, the choice is "awesome", like you say and now with the remote televisits started during Covid, you can literally get an appointment with anyone. That said, it's not all bed and roses and I've often left some of these consultations feeling more like a number than a person, but I imagine that can happen anywhere.

Jim

[DawnTX in reply to mjames1]

Jim all we can do is share our opinions. I agree with you. I had a second opinion lined up with my newest doctor, but after meeting my newest one, then I canceled because he was the right fit for me in every way. I had a list of questions, but he gave me answers before I even asked. We literally put our life in their hands. I trust this man with mine. He explains why he wants to do some thing and why he won’t do something. He’s just a whole bag of candy.

[Cookie24 in reply to Afib_girl]

Where is your EP? I am in the USA on the East Coast and went to Penn Medicine- Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania.

[DawnTX in reply to Cookie24]

my IEP is in southeast Texas, outside of Houston

[DawnTX in reply to Afib_girl]

I had someone that is supposed to be a rockstar I mean highly publicized, etc. etc. JAMA and more international even. Let me tell you he turned out to be a rock not rockstar and because of him I now have heart failure. Yes, I was told that medically that because he left me in the condition he did and abandoned me. To this day, I believe his personal procedure that he is a pioneer of failed, so he was done with me. Really your ego goes before your patient what happened to do no harm leaving me with 150+ for a heart rate for eight months is not helping anyone I believe that’s called harm.

I thought he was pretty terrific until this and realized he doesn’t pay attention to what his staff is doing to patients either. You don’t really know the guy it’s not gonna hurt to get a second opinion. We can only give you our opinions. Good luck. P S. Some of them get stuck on doing the same procedures again and again, such as cardioversions, ablation, and meds. Do you want one that thinks out of the box. I have one incredible humble, but even him I question.

[mjames1 in reply to DawnTX]

Yes, unfortunately a lot of the rock stars are "rocks" I asked one if he would personally handle my cardioversion and he looked at me like I was making a big ask and he said "it's just pushing a button and a monkey can do it, but if you want me to do, I will". Well, guess what? His was the only cardioversion that didn't work Wish I had a video of procedure, as he was probably in and out of the room on a call to some medical reporter or another

Jim

[DawnTX in reply to mjames1]

as I think of it now I wonder because Houston Methodist is a teaching hospital if that’s who they used. Not only was this aggressive, but as I said through both femoral arteries, my wrist and my neck using a brand new procedure that he is the pioneer of I’m still considering legal, I have a lot of documentation regarding being ignored

[mjames1 in reply to DawnTX]

So they ran four lines with you -- both femoral, neck and wrist? Was that at Houston Methodist? Does this new procedure have a name?

Jim

[DawnTX in reply to mjames1]

Vein of Marshall behind the heart plus a couple of other areas were bladed as well. What I was told they use alcohol instead of rf or cryo-. This was actually at the DeBakey

[DawnTX in reply to mjames1]

absolutely I meant to say that but that’s why I said if she’s anywhere near Houston or even Florida reach out, I have experience in both areas and most of it was good

[Afib_girl in reply to DawnTX]

unfortunately I can only see drs in my state due to insurance I’m in Indiana

[DawnTX in reply to Afib_girl]

that is understandable. Most of our insurance is that way

[jeanjeannie50]

I was in the same position as you, my first two ablations didn't work, but the third did of sorts. I think my symptoms were what my EP wanted in order to try out a new piece of equipment he'd devised. After my second I had no idea that I would have another ablation and was shocked when I was telephoned one day to go in the following week. On the spur of the moment I said yes, but my daughter told me off for saying I'd have a third. It made me worry because she was so against it and I thought it may have been a premonition that it wouldn't go well.

I felt wonderful after the procedure but it didn't last for very long and several successful cardioversions followed but lasted for days, weeks or sometimes almost a year. Then came the time when they said no more cardioversions. For about the last 3 years I've been in constant AF but my heart rate stays between 60-90bpm and I feel fine that way. I can only tell you how glad I am that I had that third ablation and don't have to suffer those debilitating PAF attacks.

Jean

[mav7]

Sounds like a very unique case, Afib_girl Pls tell us more about your history. Pardon the questions.

Symptoms ? Previous cardioversion ? What medications don't work ? Taking anticoagulant ?

Are you seeing an EP or cardiologist ?

At your young age (30's) seems like you are an ideal candidate for the minimaze procedure. Wolf minimaze in Houston and Dr Natale in Austin receive alot of publicity. Not sure Dr Natale does the minimaze. As mentioned above, consider getting a second opinion. I share your concern about another ablation.

Best to you in managing your health. Important point in fighting the afib battle and determining treatment is your satisfaction with your quality of life.

[Afib_girl in reply to mav7]

I’ve seen 2 eps, 2 cardioversions, 2 ablations.

Been on amiodarone, diltizem, metoprolol,flecinide, digoxin none worked for me

I get fast heart rate, dizzy hot and tired.

[Afib_girl in reply to Afib_girl]

also on Eliquis

[DawnTX in reply to Afib_girl]

sadly you sound like me 🙁 unless you’ve already asked about going elsewhere maybe it’s worth a phone call if you explain the situation

[mav7]

Thanks for sharing !

Research the minimaze and discuss with your doctors. Best to You !

[KiwiBlake]

Some one did respond on this forum recently that the younger, or fitter you are, the better/quicker your heart heals, which in terms of an ablation is a bad thing. What you want for a sucessfull ablation is a good band of lovely scar tissue on the inner surface of your heart where the cryo or RF damage is done.

That's my understanding anyway, someone else please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regards

Blake

[bassets]

Sorry you are in this pickle but you are young enough to keep on trying, I hope you can find an answer soon and get back to a normalish life . Best of luck x

[Dippy22]

Now this is a AFib subject I’ve not seen on this forum before, but funny (or not!) that you should post about it right now.

I spoke to my new (young, and I suspect freshly trained), cardiologist yesterday about having an ablation very soon. When I asked how confident he could be that it’ll fix the AFib issue “in one go”, he said the longterm outcome would really depend on how much of a “good healer” I am. Apparently the heart (like the rest of the body) has the innate ability to heal well and generate new tissue to repair the scarring. And some people are better “healers” than others. As you’re young, I would suspect your heart would have a good chance of doing this.

Got a funny feeling I may be an about to fall into the same category, as I eat a healthy diet and cuts, nicks and bruises are healed in just a couple of days. Two months ago I had lumbar spine surgery, which has also healed really well and the 4” scar is now minimal.

Not sure of the answer to this one, but I will watch your progress with interest.

[MarkS]

I understand that in the US, the average number of ablation by EP if a lot lower than in the UK. So I would suggest you find a high volume centre, e.g. someone who does at least 100 ablations p.a. You will need to interrogate them about their volume and success rate and drop anyone who does not come up with or is cagey about their stats.

[mjames1 in reply to MarkS]

The US is full of high volume centers. And I understand that high volume centers have better results, but my pick is that some of them may be too high volume, in that the so called "ep study" is little more than a formality as they churn out one PVI after another and because of the schedule do not allocate enough time for investigation.

Jim

[DawnTX in reply to MarkS]

the numbers may be lower but you have doctors that will do all of those over and over again because they are money makers. She needs to find someone who will think out of the box because most of afib is thought of in terms of older people and written off, especially with our insurance. My first two applications cost a quarter of 1 million and that was just in the hospital not the doctors. I’m willing to bet that out of this world equipment is paid for quickly. I have a Doctor who doesn’t care if he ticks someone off. He wants to give us quality of life ASAP instead of just making money.

[DawnTX]

my goodness you were so young to have this already and I tend to agree with you about the healing and would question make him give you something concrete why do you need another one now? Unless it’s life or death he should wait my goodness here on the page. You will see how they talk about the healing process quite a bit. Usually I’m told six months my most aggressive one I was told it would be a year most likely. My doctor would not do any more ablations because of scarring. I don’t know where you are in the US. If you’re anywhere near Houston let me know maybe I can point you in another direction