Inadequate deep sleep.

[Hrpapa]

I have inadequate deep sleep. I was told that my permanent Afib sets my brain on extra alert and that's the reason. Any idea on how to tackle the problem will be appreciated.

[jeanjeannie50]

I would try taking magnesium glycinate at night about half an hour before going to bed.

Jean

[Hrpapa in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Thank you.

[manabouttown in reply to jeanjeannie50]

What is better magg glycinate or mag taurate.?Or should you take both if you suffer from Afib?I'm post two ablations- last one in Feb 2025. Currently it seems to be working and am in NSR.

Many thanks for any advice.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to manabouttown]

We used to have a cardiologist Sanjay Gupta who works in York, UK put helpful posts on this forum. He recommended Magnesium Taurate made by a certain supplier saying they had helped his patients. It was then found out that he was getting payments from them. The ones he recommended shot up in price and became very expensive.

I tend to look now for pills that don't contain a lot of artificial fillers. The Magnesium Glycinate I take is made by Vitapoint and then I supplement with Solgars Taurine.

Jean

[manabouttown in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Thanks Jean ,so taking both glycinate and taurate is better than taking one?

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to manabouttown]

I really don't know, have never tried the combination one.

[manabouttown in reply to jeanjeannie50]

So which would you prefer - glycinate or taurate?

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to manabouttown]

I take Glycinate and Taurine separately. Glycinate helps me more than anything else. Helps me sleep deeper. So I'd say Glycinate.

[manabouttown in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Thanks Jean-wishing you NSR

[ozziebob in reply to manabouttown]

There are so many forms of magnesium available (13 and counting?). I would suggest an internet search to examine the differences.

Here's a quick summary I found online ...

Specific Magnesium Types and Their Uses:

Magnesium Citrate: This form is often used for constipation due to its laxative properties. It's also known for its high bioavailability.

Magnesium Glycinate: Well-absorbed and gentle on the digestive system, it's often used for sleep, relaxation, and muscle relaxation.

Magnesium Malate: May be used for energy support, fibromyalgia, and chronic fatigue syndrome.

Magnesium Taurate: May support heart health, including lowering blood pressure.

Magnesium L-Threonate: Potential brain health benefits, may be helpful for memory and cognitive function.

Magnesium Oxide: Can be used for indigestion, heartburn, and short-term constipation, but it's less bioavailable than other forms.

Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt): Often used in baths to relieve muscle aches and soreness.

Magnesium Chloride: May be used for muscle soreness and can be found in topical products like magnesium oils.

Magnesium Orotate: May support heart health and potentially improve nerve function.

General Considerations:

Bioavailability:

Some forms, like magnesium citrate and glycinate, are known for their higher absorption rates.

Digestive Tolerance:

Magnesium glycinate is generally considered gentler on the digestive system than some other forms.

Specific Needs:

The best type of magnesium for you will depend on your individual needs and health goals.

And the HU Search 🔍 tool at the top of this page will return previous Posts & Replies on magnesium.

Good luck.

[manabouttown in reply to ozziebob]

Thanks ever so much.Looks like glycinate and taurate are best for Afibers

[JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Hi

Did you know that Solgar was bought out by Nestle.

We can't get Solgar B12 1000ug Sublingual or any other B12 in their range in NZ.

I send for Nutritias NZ and they import it from Spain!

I like the fact that I get a steady supply of B12 into the blood rather than injection monthly.

Diagnosed in 2010 B12 deficient. I take 1 nugget 5 days week to keep me on level of 500-700 as I am an ilder person of 76.

cheri JOY

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

No I didn't know about Nestle. Solgar named products are still available here in the UK.

Looking at my Solgar taurine it's made in the USA.

Jean

[Hrpapa in reply to manabouttown]

Thanks

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to manabouttown]

Sorry my Magnesium Glycinate is made by Vitabright, not Vitapoint. Goodness knows where I got that name from.

[opal11uk]

I too have this problem, less than an hour deep sleep so my Fitbit tells me however I have been a light sleeper for most of my life, I put it down to having babies and in the last 12 years a Chihuahua because I am always listening out for them, I believe most mothers are the same.

[Peacefulneedshelp in reply to opal11uk]

I say the same thing. I haven't had a good night sleep since my children were born starting in 1976. They more the experts say we need good sleep and deep sleep the less I sleep. Not on purpose though, it is what it is.

[ForensicFairy]

I’m beginning to seriously doubt the ability of watches to track sleep stages, especially when you take cardiac and other meds.

Almost 6 weeks ago my watch recorded and average of 9.5 hrs of sleep a night with anything from 1-4.5 hrs deep sleep each night! I’ve always been a good sleeper but this amount of deep sleep even surprised me. It’s been like this since I first started wearing an Apple Watch and the watch was suggested by my cardiologist after my diagnoses and after I commenced cardiac meds - so I don’t know what it was before. But, as stated, I’ve never had issues with getting to sleep or staying asleep.

However, since starting Wegovy my heart rate has increased while sleeping and so I’ve apparently only had less than 30 minutes a night of deep sleep, and most nights none at all.

I feel no different. The only change is the medication and a faster heart rate during sleep. I believe that deep sleep is more than just heart rate anyway.

[CDreamer in reply to ForensicFairy]

Interesting observation. I don’t take any cardiac meds but I use CPAP as I was diagnosed with mild Sleep Apnea in 2015. Recently because of surgery on my nose I was unable to use the mask and my Deep Sleep recording from an App, not the Health App in Apple Watch, recorded .45-.5 hours. I am now back using my CPAP and back up to 2-2.25 hours deep sleep and do feel more rested when I wake and don’t need to have 40 winks after lunch. I sleep about 6.5 - 7 hours in total, never more than 7.5hours.

[ForensicFairy in reply to CDreamer]

I still feel rested - well, as much as I always have. I do wake more sluggish but that has coincided with an increase plus additional meds. My heaviest medication load is at night where I take amlodipine, candesartan, eliquis, and carvedilol. I also take magnesium and CoQ10 at night.

[Broseley in reply to ForensicFairy]

If I compare the times when I am in deep sleep with my heart rate, it is often when my heart rate is still above resting rate. This puzzles me. There appears to be no relationship between the two as far as I'm concerned.

[ForensicFairy in reply to Broseley]

That is puzzling!

Mine was dropping into the 50s and sometimes 40s but sits in the 60s and 70s now. My respiration rate remains unchanged but it’s determined in not getting any deep sleep.

[Broseley in reply to ForensicFairy]

It could be due to the cocktail of drugs you take! I came off apixaban (Eliquis) and went on Edoxaban which is once a day, so I take it in the morning, but I take my bisoprolol and magnesium at night. My heart rate usually drops to the mid 40s.

[secondtry]

Thanks for posting, I expect this issue affects us all to some degree, whether permanent AF or PAF.

I have no definitive answers but my evening routine is: relaxing schedule (no phone or computer alerts, often listen to my vinyl record collection), read the Bible in bed & apply Ancient Minerals Magnesium Melatonin skin cream 15 mins before going to sleep. When I wake up (can be several times in the night due I suspect to AF), I don't fret about going back to sleep if I can't and just turn on the BBC's Radio 4 Extra to send me off again.

Currently despite many wake-ups this is giving me just sufficient deep sleep to function properly most days.

[Mollydex]

I wonder if your watch is constantly confused due to your AF my pace maker is set at 45 and my watch thinks I sleep during the day despite me being a really busy nurse in an A/E who is constantly busy on 12 hour shifts. My watch just gets confused. It must wonder how I get my huge foot step count in though 🤣

[quanglewangle]

Once again I am out of step! I have been in permanent AF and continue to have a sound sleep every night. I get up to urinate maybe twice a week but return immediately to sleep. (I am 82 and have a pacemaker). We are all different.....

[Visigoth]

I too have inadequate deep sleep, despite no AF episodes. I’ve tried everything - meditation, music, the lot. So if anyone has any good ideas I’d like to hear them too!

[Qualipop]

My son has that problem. Just this last week he's started trying CBD Gummies to increase melatonin. Touch wood so far he's had 4 nights of restorative sleep, waking up just before his alarm and is so refreshed. That's the legal sort available from such as Holland and Barret with no psychoactive substances.

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hi

Who told you that?

When I got out of wonk with sleep - waking up at 2am and finding it difficult to go back to sleep, I was given DOPRESS. Also at 2am I would start overthinking and get anxious. That was in 2009.

It kept me asleep.

Then I went for a holiday 18mths later and left them behind. Hooray.

But the thing was to wait until I was tired before I took it so I never relied on Dopress to get to sleep.

The crisis was over.

Realigned my sleeping habits.

cheri JOY

[Peacefulneedshelp]

I ordered powdered Magnesium Malate and glyinate on the advise of Dr. Davis a retired cardiologist who has a group called Inner Circle which I joined after reading his book Super Gut. He suggests, 1 tsp of Magnesium with a 2 liter of Seltzer Water. I have been doing that for several months now and the theory is we better digest the Magesium that way. I think it has helped. I also believe I got rid of bacterial overgrowth, which causes all heart issues including Afib, again that is Dr Davis, not me saying this. I said on this forum that Fish oil was putting me in Afib which I stopped taking. Now that I perhaps cleared up bacterial overgrowth and have more Magnesium in my system, I am now able to handle the fish oil.

All of this is so interesting for sure. I had 1 incident in the last year, and it only lasted 5 minutes. Nothing since that issues about 1 months ago. I call that a miracle.

Many people feel it's not worth trying to find out how to quiet AF but I am one that will never stop searching to find answers, at least for myself. So far, and at least for now, I am on a good path.

all the best,

[Sustainedvtach270]

I tape my mouth to sleep to nasal breath. Being physically active, walking more than 10000 steps and swimming also help me.

[Ppiman]

I have insomnia and struggle with sleep. When I have AF at bedtime, increasingly common, it adds to the problem. I have never heard of what you have, though, only a lack of sleep in general. How did you find out you lack certain kind of sleep and what symptoms alerted you? I am fascinated as I must surely lack similar.

Steve

[Gunn61]

I note a reference to using a CPAP machine by CDreamer above, but just wanted to suggest a sleep study to see if the issue was apnea that a CPAP machine may help with. My doctor thought treating the apnea would help with my AF, but that was not the case. However, glad to have the apnea treated as that does appear to improve my sleep.