Encouraged by TeaFree's recent post theorising on the systemic causes of AF, I would add that I think we need to work much more on this area with the medics/others to improve outcomes before proceeding to an ablation.
I accept that medics are as good as it gets on emergency medicine eg ablations and following their colleagues/Big Pharma on dispensing 'the accepted drugs', but I am sure they would be the first to admit they are real beginners on lifestyle and don't have the advantages of knowing individual circumstances intimately, as of course we know our own. Hence unless WE firmly instigate a discussion with medics and alternative practitioners, it won't happen and we miss chances of better quality of life.
So I would say to almost all AFers the game is up........you now have to accept you have 'overlooked' your mind/body and will have to focus on systemic lifestyle changes by spending time and £ on your wellbeing. You may think your lifestyle is not too bad but your heart has already passed judgement.
Examine everything that goes into your body (incl the way you breathe), everything you do (incl dental hygiene) and see (incl movies & Nature).
Honestly, I don't know whether the above approach (which I will always be working on) has kept me virtually AF free for 10 yrs with great QOL or the 200mgs Flecainide I take daily (and would dearly like to ditch) has done that. However, the bottom line is if the clock was wound back and I was newly diagnosed with AF would I follow the same approach on lifestyle changes....and the answer is YES. So I am recommending it to you guys on that basis.
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secondtry
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I have really healthy meals with no additives. The problem is the lure of biscuits, chocolate and crisps - even doughnuts in between meals. I'm so weak willed and once I start eating rubbish there's no stopping me until it's gone. I blame it on being one of six children, we didn't have rubbishy snack food back then, so I was deprived of sugary things. Crisps - well have you seen how many are in a bag these days? Surely two packs of those small amounts make up 1 old style packet?
A good post to remind everyone again, or newcomers on the benefits of eating a healthy and additive free diet. Yes, I feel that it can certainly improve AF symptoms.
This information needs posting time and time again, can never be repeated too much.
I deserve to be fat, but fortunately my weight has never been a concern. I get so cross with myself, I'm good for ages then when shopping the craving for sweet things can suddenly kick off!
I do agree with you on a hybrid approach and that lifestyle is very important. Though with AFib being such a ‘mongrel condition’, for some people nothing seems to work. It’s important that people aren’t made to feel that they are to blame for the progression of their A Fib.
For many, those lifestyle factors will be enough. For others, it can progress rapidly despite lifestyle changes, medication and procedures. Yes, still make the changes as they might help general health and reduce the A Fib burden.
Honestly, I don't know whether the above approach (which I will always be working on) has kept me virtually AF free for 10 yrs with great QOL or the 200mgs Flecainide I take daily (and would dearly like to ditch) has done that.
There is one way to find out 😀 But when I tried to ditch the Flecainide, the results were not good. So for me, it's ablation. Do not want to stay on that drug for life, nor is there any way of knowing if/when it will stop working.
I do agree with a lot of what you wrote, however. For those who want more on lifestyle, there's Dr. John Days book, The Afib Cure.
Yes Flecainide is a strong , albeit tried & tested, drug. I agree best not at all but the trap is it often works so well that you tend to avoid rocking the boat. I have turned my emphasis onto annual bloods to check for any bad trends, which might be put down to Flec and only that would encourage me to wean very slowly off it.
I second the book, I have it but need to re-read so thanks for the prompt.
Totally behind you on the lifestyle approach . I have to say I feel much better in myself since I completely stopped all sugar apart from fruit . It’s only been 4 months so far but I find having none easier than trying to moderate ( the Magnus Magnus son approach takes over , I ve started so I ll finish 🤣) I have read the Afib cure
Well done Peony you are on it, just keep in mind it's a journey without end but the rewards are worth it. I believe in doing the tough stuff today so tomorrow is easier.
I like that! (started so I’ll finish) 😂 - so true for me ☹️ - it’s either on the wagon completely or if that fails have only small portions readily available! The trouble is I end up raiding my wife and daughter’s stash… at least there the guilt stops me eating it all…!
I guess that nothing would have made any difference to my AF. I have a healthy lifestyle, don't drink or smoke or eat a lot of processed foods. I keep active, even if that is pottering, I am happy, I don't let things bother me these days.
My AF kicked off every couple of days like clockwork. Since the ablation I have had no episodes of AF.
My advice would be to avoid what started it in the first place. A bit late I'm sure for most of you. Trying too hard, pushing yourself to cope with seemingly impossible problems, which leads to your heart joining in, trying to help by adding extra beats.
Gentle exercise is one thing, pushing your body to do more and more I think is harmful.
I wonder how many of the participants in the London Marathon pushed themselves too hard yesterday. My granddaughter injured her knee half way through and, being the determined character she is, she finished it. But what damage will she have done to her knee. I would have given her the money anyway!
Totally agree. There is far too much emphasis these days on achievement and filling every moment with useful activity. Being happy and relaxed also contributes to good health but seems to get little attention from the achievement junkies.
Interesting post. I'm 3.5 years into my AF journey and have made significant lifestyle shifts that I intend to maintain. What stopped the AF however, was the ablation. And I'm now off my Flecainide. I'm going to say I'd hate anyone read this post and go into self blame. I don't think thats your intention, but just in case. (I speak as a self blamer. ) I think it is more the case that our culture - work and eating and relaxation - and how we have sold 'fitness' and 'healthy food'- are more to blame than individual choices. The word sell is meaningful here. Quite simply, most of us have been brought up to live lives that are not harmonious- not with our physical world, not with our physical bodies, not the way we live our lives, often ruled by a work ethic. So, it's a social issue, not just personal. Additionally, within the body itself are numerous intricate systems that need to be in balance - our medical system is geared towards treating them separately. I believe this is a terrible trend that leads millions into poor health.
That said, I agree one has to make that personal choice - what do I need to do to look after myself? And a good cardiologist, EP or GP will encourage you to do this. There are some glimmers of hope re lifestyle medicine but we need to bang that drum loud and clear.
Bit of a morning rant! Off for my overnight oats then 😉
Spot on - the time is near to move away from GPs & blinkered consultants and seek a good qualified & experienced Integrative Medic before they stop taking new patients.
Yep, a good one will take some digging out. If you find one, I really don't think they are expensive just good value. Over the weekend our neighbour told us her and her husband went to Pizza Express, had nothing fancy 🍕 and the bill was £55 - I would call eating out expensive particularly so as most is moderate fare.
Having been a Complementary Therapist for 25 years, funded all my own training and not recuperating it from practice as, people think it’s expensive. £60 per hour 🤷🏼♀️ We in this country are not used to paying for health care or dentistry.
I had to study Anatomy & Physiology, the whole of the body’s systems before I could take other courses, Reflexology etc. considered quacks, snake oil 😵💫
I learnt different modalities to incorporate with others to address different problems, not allowed to say they did anything other than relaxation 😳 Medical profession if today is actually the alternatives, natural therapies have been around a lot longer.
Congratulations. 10 years being AFib free is a wonderful result,
Some are genetically inclined to AFib, and a proper diet, correct weight, checking for sleep apnoea, exercise, reducing stress, reducing stimulants will all help.
I tried all the above: lone AFib, BMI 23, blood pressure low, HR low, exercise yes, no coffee or alcohol, and my AFib was still progressing.
I was on 100mg Flecainide a day and on Eliquis and decided enough was enough.
You must be young as you did not mention an anticoagulant?
I started 10 yrs ago with over 2 AF episodes a week. I was put on 100mgs Flecainide and the episodes continued, two cardiologists and an EP then offered me an ablation and nothing else. Feeling desperate and not comfortable with the 70% success rate for an ablation 'and you will probably need another' I meekly asked couldn't I try 200mgs Flec as I knew that wasn't the maximum dose; my cardiologist said fine and the episodes stopped.
I am now 70 years old, no comorbidities and no anticoagulant. At my annual review this year, my cardiologist wrote to my GP 'He is keen to avoid anticoagulation if possible and with a CHADS VASc score of just 1 and no episodes of atrial fibrillation for a long time, I think this is a reasonable strategy'.
I totally sympathise. I did not take AC until I got to 75 (actually 76). I did take 80mg aspirin and 100mg nattokinase. The CHAD VASC test states with a score of 1:
"a 1 score for men or 2 score for women is “low-moderate” risk and should consider antiplatelet or anticoagulation."
I am following you down the track - currently considering Nattokinaise (I think you posted your experience with this) and expect to be on ACs by 75 as I don't think I will be as active etc - got to move with the times 😩.
Nattokinase has a lot of health benefits in addition to the anti-coagulative properties. Japanese people start the day with Natto and they live a full and active life (the fish also helps). Being on AC when we are older is a real concern, especially if you are a klutz like me and knock yourself on the head every so often.
Impressed! But also, lucky you with BP etc. Unfortunately I have digestive issues long standing from abdominal surgery and hypothyroidism. It's a cocktail that - through no fault of my own - had led my CHAD VAS and cardiovascular risks to be quite high. Yet - I mostly feel pretty good these days. So for me, it's how I feel that counts.
I love to read such positivity. More strength to you. I think medics are far more clued up to lifestyle changes, myself. Well, the few I know are. I won't use the term "Big Pharma" having worked with research scientists in pharmaceutical companies and respecting them so very highly - but I know why some do use it.
Me - I look to the genes and their reaction to the lifestyle for our state of health.
Over the weekend I listened to Kate Shemirani who founded The British Nursing Alliance. She made an interesting brief comment (if memory serves) that genetic inheritance is part of the function of your, your parents & your grandparents similar lifestyles and therefore can be improved; never too late to start!
With regard to medics and pharmaceutical companies, I was generalising. I expect we all know well clued up and ethical individuals. My cardiologist actually suggested I contact a MH practitioner for anxiety and I am indebted to the chemist who developed Flecainide!
Yes - I thought you used it for that reason. I react negatively to it only as my brother and his friend are big onto conspiracy theories and I read it daily on their FB threads. Yesterday some in his family posted how they switched off their phones so as not to hear the government alarm test broadcast and be mind-warped or something.
Reading a few good textbooks would do them a lot more good than soaking in the Icke and similar nonsense they drink in daily from internet blogs and YouTube channels!
Questioning the few I know is a sometimes fun but eventually pointless exercise since what they believe seems to be a mishmash and replete with non sequiturs, straw men and the like.
If it weren’t for the success of social media in spreading this nonsense (and now added to by the many wealth-generating blogs and vlogs of the sadly sickened internet), it would be as it ever was, inconsequential and often laughable. Sadly, it’s now attracting the attention of large swathes of people who find themselves as if magnetically drawn to the comfort of its simple answers to complex issues and, what is, nigh on, an alternative form of religion.
My daughter lived in Japan for a while, and the alarms were more spooky - your TV and Radio switched themselves on and sent the message. Another, in Canada, regularly gets phone alerts - to the point where they’re cutting back on what they send. No aliens (or fake Govt aliens) so far.
It's hard to credit that a grown adult can believe in such nonsense, but my brother managed to convince a few in his family to switch their phones off!
Research scientists ( who I am sure are mostly worthy of respect) do not run Pharma these days - the money men do. That is why they spend more on advertising and lobbying than on R&D.
Yes, it’s a sadly warped system but it still brings forth some wonders. And those brilliant minds are still there daily trying to come up with something that will delay or ease our way to the grave, even if often comes about by picking the brains first of our university scholars. I wish, as I’ve said, that research and development were differently led and owned but there we are. It seems that too many people are greedy and selfish, wherever they exist - private companies or whatever.
The days of scientists like my hero Marie Curie seem over.
Thank you so much for your inspiring post, Secondtry. I agree with every word. I have to go back to work today after nearly three weeks off with ill health. It’s so hard not to get sucked back into the toxic, energy-draining environment
Absolutely right. I find as soon as I am busy and travelling a lot (I run a Not For Profit Social Enterprise) I start with the junk food and that is my scaled down business activity! I would urge you to make long term plans to change careers; I did it at age 55 and love it.
Agree with your sentiments in principle… But having just read The Afib Cure there is SO much in there that you should try to do or maintain, to the extent that for a lot of people (me included) it would become counterproductive in terms of associated stress and anxiety - that said I am trying to deal with the lower hanging fruit - that’s then a win win 😀
Maybe it's important to some people, but not all. I have noticed from other forum boards, that the first thing people do when shocked with a fresh diagnosis of something horrible is try to control it with diet and lifestyle, because it's the only thing they might be able to control. Well unless it was your diet and lifestyle that kicked it off in the first place, it's not going to make much difference.
My dad's family have AF running through them like the writing in a stick of rock, so that was me doomed from a young age. My diet and lifestyle was the best it had ever been when I first got clobbered with bouts of AF in my 40s. Given the history, I wasn't going to avoid it. Once diagnosed I realised I'd had shorter runs of AF in my 30s too, just undiagnosed and put down (by me) to being panic attacks caused by the stress of divorce.
My current diet is crap, way too much sugar, although not much processed food, lots of organic meat and veg. There is not much that's good in my life now, a failing business due to Brexit, and thyroid issues that have drained the life out of me. So if I reach for comfort foods it's little wonder. The AF is probably causing me to feel more tired than I should and makes me breathless if I try to do much exercise. But it's literally a walk in the park to unfixed and really hard to fix hypothyroidism.
Why am I saying this? Because as someone else said above, it's really important not to preach the diet and lifestyle fixes all mantra too loudly because some of us will be riled by it. It's just the same in the thyroid forum. If it were that easy we'd have fixed it years ago.
I am sorry to hear your circumstances and hope things improve soon. My suggestion was to try and help the majority as nothing works for everyone and clearly there are some where it is inappropriate.
I believe that once your thyroid has gone down the pan - no matter why - you can't fix it with lifestyle changes . The best bet is managing to get a treatment that works and that is an uphill task given how badly treated it is by the medical profession.
Although a great advocate for lifestyle changes to help with AF, it should not be looked upon as something that will indefinitely halt the progression of P-AF for everyone.
I already lead a healthy lifestyle before AF struck growing my own vegetable/cooking from scratch and upping the level of 'a good lifestyle '(including cutting out wine/eating a main meal midday/ no food after 5pm/trying to follow the Tim Spector 35 different plant based foods a week/walking daily/early to bed ) may well have slowed the progression of P-AF over the last 6 years but my P-AF has progressed rapidly in the last few months.
I am now in highly symptomatic P-AF most of the time with a poor QOL and the symptoms have not eased so I am not confident that when I reach permanent AF my heart will adjust as some suggest and things will be any better.
Knowing what I know now about the progression of AF that happens in many instances I would urge fellow members to seriously consider an ablation when it is offered, even if it is not successful it is worth a try because life in AF most of the time can be a dreadful thing as I now know.
I originally turned down an Ablation because my episodes were few and I would delay progression with a healthy life , then COVID arrived meaning the chance of an Ablation was left too long and now I am on a long waiting list that increases daily with the strikes.
I am pretty sure a stressful life and degree of inherited genes have contributed to my AF, my brother (healthy living) has it and I think my father did too but it was undiagnosed. For some of us I believe AF is inescapable .
Sorry to hear, yes you are right Lifestyle changes have variable effect and are not the Holy Grail for all. I hope with my choice of words I did not convey that to too many readers.
Don't give up hope of permanent AF being much better to live with than what you have now. My lone bouts of AF were diabolical. I could not function at all. I've been permanent for several years now. I can't feel it most of the time and although I don't have much energy and exercise is out of the question, I also have difficult thyroid situation going on. Either condition could be causing the symptoms.
I have never been offered an ablation. I don't even have a cardiologist anymore as he signed me off at the end of the pandemic. I'm not happy with that and think I'm going to go to my GP and ask to see someone else at a different hospital. I don't like the fact that I have no one to talk to about it if I need too.
Obviously I'd far rather never have had AF, but I inherited it. Now I'm much happier in myself with permanent than with the terrible, violent and frightening bolts from the blue.
I would have to second Fancypants54’s comments Doodle. When having episodes of PAF my heart rate would be crazy high and I felt terrible but, having gone into persistent AF since the beginning of Feb things are much calmer and my heart rate is controlled with 2.5mg Bisoprolol. That constant “ will it, won’t it” fear of going into an episode has been removed and I’m actually far more relaxed now that I’m in AF all the time. I don’t operate at the speed I used to but then I’m nearly 60, not 21😊 but otherwise, for the majority of the time I don’t even know I’m in AF. I hope your ablation date comes through soon for you but just wanted to say persistent AF may not be as bad as you fear. I would just add that I did try Nebivolol for a while but it didn’t control my heart rate sufficiently, so I wonder if it’s worth you having a chat with your cardiologist about trying a different beta-blocker whilst you’re waiting.
My EP said to me: "We call your AF 'Lone AF' as we don't know what caused it. But you are ex-military so I'd suggest; alcohol, caffeine and long term heavy exercise."
Now I'm fixed, 2 years post ablations, no meds, I've found my heart rhythm is very sensitive to caffeine, 'ok' with moderate alcohol......and yet to test the 'heavy exercise' !
My bet is on the flecainide. Stop it and the Afib will kick back In despite a great lifestyle (which I agree with wholeheartedly). That’s been my experience.
I hate to admit it but I agree the odds are in favour of Flecainide, judging by other members here. However, I am very pleased I have been pushed into making a big number of Lifestyle changes as I think I have reduced the risk of other later life chronic issues developing.
I also think there maybe some merit in trying very slowly to reduce my dose, say 25mg using a pill cutter and then another 25mg after 6 months to get down to 100mgs per day and stopping there. Just not now 😂.
yep! Or in my case, until the new circuit short circuits as well … five times! All because, unlike electric circuits the blxxdy neurons regenerate to form new and sometimes weird connections that, once again, misfire!
Well this thread was interesting reading. I got diagnosed last September & not one person - GP, private cardiologist, hospital cardiologist & arrhythmia nurses have mentioned one thing about life style & food except asking me about caffeine initially. No one said to lose weight - although I am trying. No one mentioned stress, sleep patterns, food choices etc. I just went from one day normal to another in AF where I have stayed everyday since. ( apart from one week post cardioversion) Would it really be possible to alter this condition without medication and procedures?? I do find exercise a problem as my legs are so very heavy & I get tired & a bit breathless if I do too much but again - no advice given on what to do or how much. Thank you everyone for ideas & advice.
Well a better diet would help most people. Ensuing any intolerances are addressed. The body is a complex thing. Ruled by hormones, chemical and electrical balance. If one organ is out of sync, the rest will be also. Genetic inheritance has a lot of influence to us. I don’t believe in ‘cures’, as a therapist I’d be sued for mentioning anything other than they relax people and yet, certain institutions can use the word cart blanch.
I’ve not a lot of ideas as to why I have SVT & PAF and even the T2 diabetes I developed 😳
Seems I also have Haemochromatosis, Compound version which may have something to do with the ailments. Awaiting tests.
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