I know this is off topic, yet it concerns many of us AF'ers over 75.
Yesterday, while tuned into GBN TV, I saw a news item on a new NHS initiative encouraging bowel cancer screening. This reminded me that I haven't had the magic test kit package for years which I'd forgotten about. So, I rang my GP Surgery and queried this. They phoned back later but I had returned to work.
So, this morning when at home for a break in my shift I returned my GP Surgery phone call and was told that my GP advised that as I was over 75 (I'm 78) I no longer qualified for automatic test kits to be sent to me. She gave me a phone number to contact and I would be sent one on request.
My response to the poor receptionist was ....... "well that reeks of ageism to me. Basically it seems that once you are 75 or above in terms of bowel cancer you are written off by the NHS ..... oh well that's fine but the problem is I'm not ready to die."
My point being that at 78 if I was unfortunate enough to test positive I would be as much of a cost drain on the NHS as a 54 year old.
Get old at your peril ..... death is a grave subject, particularly where the NHS is concerned.
They stop screening women for cervical cancer at 65 and breast cancer at 70 unless you opt in . My dad died of bowel cancer aged 84 so screening is already on my radar. You have to watch the discriminatory little monkeys !
And while you can request breast and colon tests after that age, you are unable to request a cervical test at all. I know I tried. The other thing is that my partner was diagnosed with cervical cancer at 78 on the basis of a low BM red blood cell test as part of annual blood screening and a follow up poo test and then a special blood test and scan.
well it’s certainly 70 in my area maybe it varies . Give them a ring . I did after the Covid lockdown because I thought mine was overdue and they were really helpful . It wasn’t overdue I think lockdown distorted my view of time
Yes my wife's mammagram was over due - I think she had one in 2018 last and was just called a couple of weeks ago as Covid interfered with the testing. she had seen the van in a local superstore car park and everytime thought - I must check up on mine but before she remembered to do that she had her letter. I would ask everyone to ring and ask as with all the tests now overdue it is likely that some may be missed. I would hope that any one who missed a test due to the chaos caused by Covid even if they are now over 70 would be able to get a test as our next door neighbour is just 73 and been diagnosed with breast cancer - at pretty much the same age as her Mother was when she had breast cancer. so worth asking for one if you have cancer in your family to have them over age 70.
Totally agree carneuny. I knew of someone who realised he hadn’t had a bowel screening test for a while so he asked for one and turned out to have bowel cancer. It was caught early so all was well. He was 80 at the time and is still alive today.
.... and that is exactly what sent me incandescent. Some gnome or pygmy with half a brain in the NHS made this decision. A life is a life .... and it is worth fighting for. I am well (apart from ongoing and increasing pain from osteoarthritis ) AF doesn't bother me ( so long as I'm smart ) but how dare anyone make a decision to exclude me from tests when I'm at a vulnerable age.
Why not say, we aren't gonna test you for this that or the other, so here is a needle you can take yourself out with this injection.
Mind you if you asked my GP if I was vulnerable she would not agree and she has had a tongue lashing from me about my treatments several times. ( We now don't get on ).
Age must not influence decisions on testing. My post has certainly opened my eyes in an area that I'd never considered before with the wide ranging comments I've read so far.
John, I read somewhere some time ago that the people who question everything and pull their doctors up live the longest - I said to my husband that's you sorted then!
That being the case I'll patent a funny/witty car bumper/rear window sticker and word it ................ "live long enough to become a constant nuisance to your Doctor".
Seriously, I didn't think my original post was much, more me venting my spleen ! So grateful that Admin let it through though because I have been reading through all the posts, and exchanges of comments such as yours and Flapjack and frankly have just learned so much. I hope all other AF'ers have learned as much as I have and/or that they have received some inspiration from people - again - such as you and Flapjack and others who have had wild and scary experiences.
This may vary dependiing on where you live. I have had two 'squeaks' re. cancer screening and both times it was jumped on by GPs at my practice. A friend at another local practice has also been fast tracked re. bowel and mouth cancer.Hers were both positive and she was in hospital in a jiffy.She does not have friends in high medical places so it seems as though it is local to the area and/or the Gp response.
Well, I'm in that group and I agree that ageism is a problem with doctors. I think that if they see you coming through the door without a walker or wheel chair, they think you're doing pretty well and are a bit dismissive of the same symptoms they would be more attentive to if you were 40.
Not so sure I agree about certain screenings after a certain age, however. Enough on my plate to worry about dying from certain cancers at age 110. I think that's why they have age cut offs for some screenings such as colon and prostate cancer.
There is age upper limits on various cancer screening services. Breast screening stops I think at 70 or thereabouts and similar for cervical screening. Bowel cancer screening falls under similar age ranges too. However people can request tests after those ages they just aren't caught in the screening age guidelines.
I have requested and been given apps for all three screening services after reaching screening cut off age. Its deemed to be safe and the risk of having issues arise is deemed, on the whole, to be lower. I guess that is assuming people have had their regular screening when called. Not perfect but has some science behind it.
I think the age cut offs are related to the risks versus benefits of screening as we age. The older we are the greater the risk of a false positive and therefore the impact of any adverse reaction to any investigation.
All screening programs on the NHS have to show a significant positive risk/reward ratio and I believe this reduces as we get older, hence the age cut offs
I agree that the risk/reward ratio decreases in favor of not testing as we get past a certain age. I'm interested, however, where you heard that there is a greater risk of a false positive?
For me, the risks are the risks of treating, for example, a slow growing cancer that might not impact our life until we are most probably gone. And the risks of all the stress that these positives -- false an real -- can give us.
Understand your concern carneuny, but as mentioned in the posts above screening requirements differ as we age.
One has to ask for a screening vs automatic scheduling. Colon cancer is generally classified as a slow growing cancer (right or wrong), just be aware of symptoms.
I don't know if ageism still exists regarding all conditions but it certainly did a few years ago. My very fit sister(she waked everywhere because one evening driving home, she hit a badger and never drove again) was admitted at the age of 76 for a gall bladder op. After keeping her in hospital for a couple of days they diagnosed AF (it is familial we all have it) and because they could not get her HR down set her home with a packet of Aspirin. A couple of months later she had a mild stroke. She was not rescheduled for the gall bladder op, and a gall stone lodged in a biliary tube and became cancerous, causing her death. I'm sure if she had been younger, more effort would have been made to control her HR, treat the AF and ensure she had her operation.
Everyone aged 60 to 74 years who is registered with a GP and lives in England is automatically sent an NHS bowel cancer screening kit every 2 years.
The programme is expanding so that everyone aged 50 to 59 years will be eligible for screening. This is happening gradually over 4 years and started in April 2021 with 56 year olds.
The programme has also started to include 58 year olds, so you may get a test before you're 60.
Make sure your GP practice has your correct address so your kit is posted to the right place.
If you're 75 or over, you can ask for a kit every 2 years by phoning the free bowel cancer screening helpline on 0800 707 60 60.''
Thanks for that. Well, TBH, I had no idea I just thought I'd slipped off the NHS radar. Since I put my post on here yesterday I phoned my surgery and was told huffily told the phone number in the website you refer to and kits will be sent out for me and Mrs Carneuny.
If I hadn't switched on to GB News and watched the news section on this yesterday I would never have known. I hardly see my GP as what troublesome conditions I have are well controlled, al beit by diet and meds, and the other by pain killers. My annual medical to retain my PCV Bus Drivers licence this year wasn't carried out by my GP. This was because I changed employers and my new employer put me up to the Company Dr. Sorted. That saved me around £110.
Yes, cervical screening and and mammograms stop at 65 & 70 respectively. I was screened yearly for 5 years after breast cancer. That coincidentally finished just before I turned 70 (3 months ago). I assumed because of cancer I would at least go back to the 3 year screening but no, that’s it, all gone. It does feel like I’m left to my own devices. Likewise I had been screened for a rectal/bowel problem and had to have 3 clear readings for surveillance to stop. Last reading it was back, it was treated, 6 month check up soon but was told then NICE has stopped surveillance screening and now rely on patient and any symptoms to raise any concerns. You don’t always get symptoms until it’s more advanced. 9 years of screening and now it’s down to me. Don’t know if age came into it and didn’t think to ask as I was still in theatre at the time.
I'm pleased to say that in New Zealand from July we can do a cervical smear test in a private room at the doctors ourselves. This will soon progress to self testing at home.
Oh the bliss of not having to go through a cervical smear test again 😑
That's a surprise and a good point. I managed to find a study that showed it wasn't so useful after age 75 but at least they are available free on request. The newer test is said to be very good.
I can see that for reasons of cost effectiveness the different risk/ benefit calculation after certain ages is rational . The problem is that most people probably do not realise that theoretically they can continue to be screened if they request it. Also in the new climate might some GPs be reluctant to accede to requests - even tell patients there was no need for screening at their age? Also with the new improved test there might be a better risk / benefit profile.
My husband, a great walker throughout his life, went repeatedly to his GP re pains in his legs which prevented his favourite pastime. She eventually sent him, at 78, to a consultant who said that he just had to accept the pain. He remonstrated that he, who all his life had walked miles everyday, and was now hardly able to go 400 yards.
“Plenty of people of your age would be grateful to go that far”.
No explanation whatsoever. My husband turned as he was leaving and asked if there would be no further investigations and she said there wouldn’t. When he remonstrated she suggested amputation. Hd was so upset when he came home. Just felt as though he was on the rubbish tip, and he’s such a positive person normally. I felt so sorry for him.
Your husband should ask for a referal to your hospital geriatologistre for his leg pains. They look at everything to do with older age complaints .I had fluid around my heart dignosed through this channel....doc had ignored it for ages and i had swollen ankles....... and also I was found to need an irob infusion due to low ferratin.Both were treated by this dept.
Thanks, but it’s calcification of blood vessels behind his knees apparently and they can’t do anything about it. They considered stents but decided that it would be too risky and May result in amputation.
That’s the long answer as opposed to her response to him which explained nothing, and which I was only able to discover through a friend of a friend.
Thankfully it was the consultant to whom he was sent eventually by the GP, so he has no need to see her again. He’s a very cheerful, positive soul normally, and she really upset him with her ageism
I'm so glad you raised this. I'm going to give the NHS line a ring. Hubby (80) had a colonoscopy last year and all clear but I (77)haven't had a test for 3 years. I've had BC and Cervical cancer identified by tests and treated successfully so I'm pro any tests available.
That's awful.Same as smears and boob checks for us older ladies.We are obviously classed as not worth the cost.
We have recently experienced this problem but from two different ends as it were. Last August, my wife who was then 76 was feeling progressively tired and was looking very anaemic. She hadn’t had any blood tests for 2 years so we rang the GP to arrange tests. The receptionist said she needed to speak to the GP as he needed to authorise the test. He rang within a couple of days and was happy to arrange for the tests to be carried out. The tests showed there were problems with the red blood cells and iron deficiency. She was immediately put on medication and a colonoscopy and endoscopy was arranged within days. The endoscopy was clear but unfortunately the colonoscopy wasn’t. A CT scan confirmed that she had bowel cancer. Within days she saw a surgeon and almost immediately she had the tumour removed and was put on a course of chemotherapy which finished 3 weeks ago. After a gruelling 3 weeks, last Monday we received the results which thankfully showed that at the moment, she is cancer free. I think the moral of this story is although I agree you shouldn’t necessarily have to seek them, the tests are available and when there is a need, the NHS pulls out all the stops. Initially, I didn’t intend to mention any of this in the forum but because of Carneuny’s very justified concerns, I thought it might be comforting for the Brits to know that when the chips were down, they pulled out all the stops and came up trumps. Just hope that is able to continue in the future…….
Thank you Irene, I have just read about your experiences 2 years ago. I hope you are keeping well too, I pop in to the Bowel Cancer UK forum and l’m encouraged by the many positive posts. It has been a very difficult experience but my wife is recovering from chemo experience so our fingers are well ‘n truly crossed……best wishes
I agree with you about the discrimination. I am blessed to have a different system here so they chase after me for these things however, there can be an attitude out there towards us. My EP is one of the few that I can honestly say cares about quality of life for all, and not wasting time to get to it. It’s almost as if society as a whole considers us not worth much once we retire. With people living so much longer government needs to realize keeping us healthy is very important if nothing else but the budget. It frightens me to think it might come in time where we hit a certain age and they put us into storage like a science-fiction movie. We are not our parents or grandparents. We no longer age like them etc. for the most part. Oh yes we get sick, but we still have a lot to give and enjoy.
Gosh, I think I've opened Pandora's Box .......... I didn't mean to, although my post was off topic ( and thank you Admin for allowing it) I felt given the age of a great many of us AF'ers it would be an item of interest that might at some point be of interest to us all ... scattered in so many different areas of Britain as we are.
Looking at your comments I'm finding it very hard to disagree with any of your thoughts and views. You are so correct, we aren't like our parents and grandparents. You know, I feel so, so sorry for our parents/grandparents generations ........ look what they endured ... Boer War, WW1, the Depression, WW2 and all the inhumanities that were endured, no organised healthcare system until 1948 just so dreadful. And today's snowflake generation whinge about how hard done by they are and the Government doesn't do enough.
My GP has already incurred the "Wrath of John" !!! Certainly my healthcare professionals have learned not to trifle with age and ageism as far as I'm concerned. Look, I am fortunate, I've still and all had ( healthwise) a dream run .... but then I have been better educated than previous generations, including tertiary education .. so that all helps. I think I also have some great genes (my paternal grandmother lived till 102, stopped drinking cream sherry a few weeks before she passed away, stopped smoking at 95 ... hope the old dear has passed the right ones on 😂😂😂
John you’re just being honest about what we see. I am in the states so it’s not just where you are. The one thing that helps us here is our medical system with insurance. Many of them will chase you for testing on an annual basis to catch and or prevent issues. The problem is the treatment after they find the issue. I have been very lucky and everything has been approved. My first two heart procedures cost a quarter of 1 million each. Not out of my pocket. FYI that was a $50 co-pay.
I may be 70 but I have been 35 in my head for a very long time until the past year and a half. Now since I got my pacemaker. I intend to be 35 again maybe even push it to 50 lol I know I am still stunned to think I could be 70.
Mammograms also stop at age 70 although you can still ring and ask for one. Even worse ageism exists with GPs. After phoning 3 times about bad breathlessness and an ache in my chest , getting worse over two months. I got a female doctor who said " Oh it will be pain from your spine; after all, look at your age. YOu are almost 75 you know." My reply was " That's exactly what I was told for a year until I had a heart attack". I know that 4 years ago, I had two further blockages in the LAD that were 64%; just too low to stent. How does she know they haven't got worse or that I don't have a chest infection. Just a phone call - n o examination at all. I rang back yesterday to complain. I now have a face to face appointment with someone else- next Wednesday.
Sadly so much depends on medical professionals. None of the doctors at my practice, or the local hospital has ever suggested that I was too old to qualify for treatment but I know from other people that their doctors had done so. We have made contributions during our working lives through taxes and national insurance on the belief that the NHS will live up to its promise to treat us whenever we need it. All we ask is that the service lives up to that promise.
In NZ only the new postal bowel screening tests were sent to under 75 s.
This was a first in nZ.
I qualified and after operation in March last year posted mine in.
All clear. Yipee.
Never had a test ever before. But I had a colonscopy in 2000.
Agenism and older couples get VIP treatment but singles and age is against us.
And just learnt from trying to use a expired card on SuperGold and Community Services that from my birthday 16.02.2023 that I have to fill in a form!
Therefore no Autonomy in our WINZ (now MSD) or Cards.
They both passed the buck.
Had to make a special trip 40kms each way, fill in an evergency form on Thursday so the emergency of removing an infected tooth(after last filling) could be done at hospital for $40.
Autonomy is so important when it means "informing the person/client in that service of any changes or/and what they are entitled to."
Please use it as it is a powerful 'word' in any case like yours.
After reading all the reply’s and feeling really disgusted with the way things are all over the world, it’s not much better here isn the states. I am going to say something with the upmost respect and I hope I don’t offend anyone, so here goes. When will everyone come to the realization this isn’t healthcare, its sickcare!!??
As a result of passing blood from my anus, quite a lot of it, bright red blood, I was referred to a Gastroenterologist. As he was asking questions about my condition he was filling in a form. When he heard I'd passed some black blood he carefully tore up that form and started filling out another. The result was I had a CT scan, and not long after a sigmoidoscopy to remove a pedunculate polyp from my sigmoid colon. 3 years later I had two colonoscopies, a diagnostic one while still on Warfarin, and another 3 weeks later, when off Warfarin, to remove the 4 polyps found in the diagnostic one, (1 pedunculate and 3 sessile). 3 years later, in 2022, I had another colonoscopy, having come off Warfarin, and that showed I had a colon free of polyps. I am not scheduled to have any more colonoscopies. I believe this is based on thee "fact" that polyps don't become cancerous until they are 10 years old. Of course I could still be around in 2032, and would be seeking intervention before then. I am currently 77.
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What to do? Advice needed please.
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