Mowgli

[Mowgli44]

I have intermittent AF. I thought it would be helpful to take Q10 but my GP advised not to as it would affect the Edoxaban. Any comments?

[CDreamer]

First I’ve ever heard of that. What was the reasoning?

My cardiologists have always recommended it. CoQ10 is made by the body & helps mitrocondria to produce energy. As we age we produce less, especially if you take statins.

I’ve taken both for the last 8 years so I’m either missing something important or you GP is🤷‍♂️

I just checked on drugs.com = no known interactions. Often Pharmacists are more informed & can check in more depth than GPs.

[Mowgli44 in reply to CDreamer]

thanks for replying promptly. I spoke to the pharmacist first and he said to speak to GP. Didn’t actually speak to GP of course but the receptionist sent her an email. Definitely said she’d prefer me not to take because of Edoxaban. What can you do? I’d researched it myself and it seems there is a very small study that says it make’s anticoagulants less effective. I’m not over happy about it as I’ve taken statins for years. Also told my brother in law and he checked with his GP (he takes clopidigrel) and he told him the same.

[Auriculaire in reply to Mowgli44]

This is true for Warfarin but that does not necessarily hold for a DOAC. Does the study specifically mention DOACs?

[Mowgli44 in reply to Auriculaire]

they say it should be ok but the final decision is with your GP

[Auriculaire in reply to Mowgli44]

Since most GPs know zilch about supplements and some people here have been recommended to take this by their cardiologists I am not impressed by that . I would say that if you take a statin taking co enzyme Q 10 is essential as the statin diminishes severely it's natural production by the liver. I would also bet most GPs have no idea about this or for that matter what metabolic pathway in the liver statins act upon and what other substances our bodies naturally produce that statins inhibit the production of. Along with many others here I have taken co enzyme Q 10 for donkey's years both with and without anticoagulant.

[Mowgli44 in reply to Auriculaire]

I agree with you totally and others who have replied. I’m still scared though to go against my GP - sorry

[Hidden in reply to Mowgli44]

I'm even more scared in the post CoVid NHS to listen to anything my GP has to say, assuming she'll even agree to talk to me anyway.

[Auriculaire in reply to Mowgli44]

Just don't tell them. They are not gods and most are not trained in nutrition. Some are absolutely crap. I have had GPs who have prescribed unnecessary antibiotics which have poisoned me compromising my health for 30+ years , and another who completely failed to diagnose my hypothyroidism for 7 years despite test results that showed it should have been being monitored. Often they just push pills and know very little about the side effects . We have to take responsibility for our own health especialy in the present climate.

[Quilter43 in reply to Mowgli44]

I was told if on a blood thinner not to take what is sold in health food stores.

[JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply to Quilter43]

Hi

What a lot of rot.

I take B12 supplement SOLGAR. It was checked by Dr to

change ny deficiency in B12.

I had to stop it for an operation though.

The blanket cover your Dr has given you is outrageous, Talk to your chemist.

I need more energy but I think it is the oxygen moving on EXERTION and its affects on my AF.

cheri jOY 74. (NZ)

[Mowgli44 in reply to CDreamer]

I really respect this group and the last thing I want to do is to set off negative thoughts.

[CDreamer in reply to Mowgli44]

No problems - I think you have a valid point. Only your GP will know your full medical history so we can generalise but your GP's advice maybe specific to you so do bear that in mind. What we often encounter judging from various posts is contradictory information from different GPs. I know there are several forum members who take this supplement - all on different anticoagulants.

Your choice really because CoQ10 is a supplement and some GPs are very cautious about supplements and/or misunderstand the difference between Coumadin and the DOACs. Add to that if GPs have not received nutritional training, which most have not, they will often err on the side of caution. It is a very complex area with little good, comprehensive research. The GP and Pharmacist are passing the buck here aren't they?

The only thing I could find was this from A-Fib.com

a-fib.com/faqs-minerals-sup...

[Mowgli44 in reply to CDreamer]

yes i agree they are passing the buck. Initially when I spoke to the pharmacist he asked if I had liver or kidney problems. I said not to my knowledge. He then said not to put too fine a point on it it’s your age (I’m 78). Then he said speak to your GP. I had a similar reply from my GP when I asked about magnesium tourate! GP’s don’t seem to like supplements do they?

[JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply to Mowgli44]

Hi

Have you another GP in your clinic who could give you a second opinion?

What does the Google search on the subject?

cheri jOY. 74. (NZ)

[Mowgli44 in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

no she is a partner and it wouldn’t be appropriate. Mixed reports from google. Thanks

[BobD Volunteer]

I think you need to change your GP.

Many many of us here have been taking Q 10 (myself for 20+ years) with zero issues.

[Mowgli44 in reply to BobD]

thanks

[Twosticks in reply to BobD]

Correct Bob

[Jonathan_C]

Note to self: restock with Q10.

[LizLancashire]

Pleased you asked this question Mowgli. I bought some Q10 a few months ago but have been too nervous to take it - I'm on Edoxaban. Very helpful replies as usual.

[Mowgli44 in reply to LizLancashire]

I think the link above that CDreamer wrote is useful

[Swimsyroke in reply to LizLancashire]

I take Bisopropol Edoxaban Coq10 magnesium glycinate and taurine in powder form and unless I overexert myself I feel great. I have persistent afib now and am aged 77. I have not been asked by my GP what supplements I take. As far as I'm concerned everything is working and that is the main thing.

[JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply to Swimsyroke]

Hi

Interesting.

I'm missing energy with exertion. Perhaps I should try 1 by 1 your supplements.

But I take only PRADAXA 110mg x twice day.

I'll look into that.

A friend had a mild stroke 3 weeks ago. She had run out of her PRADAXA 110mg twice a day. She missed the twice in a 24 hr period.

I dont eat broccoli, cabbage, lettuce - greens but I've been told in moderation OK.

cheri JOY

I eat celery, beans, not soy for my contra with thyroxin.

[secondtry]

Maybe ask the technical dept of a respectable supplement supplier. I use lambertshealthcare.co.uk/ and I understand from others they have a good reputation.

[meg4u]

I specifically asked my Dr if I could take 300 mg of Q10 he said it wouldn't affect it at all and can take Magnesium I also asked the Pharmascist and he said its fine

[Ppiman]

I have read that COQ10 is not recommended with traditional drug such as warfarin but that there are no reports of its affecting DOAC drugs such as apixaban. I am guessing that your GP is rightly paying safe. I always follow a doctor's advice, myself.

Steve

[Tapanac]

I’m a bit confused as you said gp preferred you not to take q10 because of the edoxaban, but then later on saying you are disappointed because you have taken statins for years. Edoxaban is an anticoagulant and statins are for cholesterol?!?! Maybe I’ve missed something

[Mowgli44 in reply to Tapanac]

sorry to confuse you. I think it is well known that people on statins take Q10. I never took the plunge myself. It is only now I have Afib that I’ve seriously thought of it again as I know many people on here take it for heart health. I’m afraid it’s too late for me now on GP’s advice. Who knows perhaps if I’d taken it years ago?

[Tapanac in reply to Mowgli44]

aah thankyou. Yes topbiscuit explained too

[Hidden in reply to Tapanac]

A lot of people who take statins take a CoQ10 supplement because statines can decrease the naturally occuring CoQ10 in the body.

Mowgli's GP didn't want them to take CoQ10 because of some possible interaction with Edoxaban.

[Mowgli44 in reply to Hidden]

thank you topbiscuit. You’ve got it right

[Tapanac in reply to Hidden]

Aaah thank you x

[Ellie-Ann]

I take Apixaban and have no problem with 100mg dose of Q10.

[Bloodredroses]

I used to take Q10 in

My 30 s 40 s long before APS . Diagnosis or developed it from Hepatitis C anti viral treatment . Swings roundabouts.

It made me speedy , not eat much . I did develop afib at that time ( related or. It , who knows , genetic. Now would not dare, although very APS fatigued and 70 . On Rivaroxaban . It’s a Powerful supplement . Did your Haematologist say no? I guess if blood is thinner , supplements and drugs will absorb more? I would love to take it again, but too scared . Plus af fib.

[Mowgli44 in reply to Bloodredroses]

thanks for your response. I’m erring on the cautious side.

[Hidden]

Don't take any of this new stuff ............. I stay with tried and true Warfarin and take 1 x 100mg capsule of BioCoQ10 a day. No problems.

[SEA1945]

Hi, I've read the variety of comments regarding your question. I'm a retired registered nurse/midwife (which gives me no advantage other than close contact with doctors over my 35 year career). I am in entire agreement with the group here that point out that GPs and medics generally often know little about supplements, if anything at all. The problems regarding litigation (which govern everything they do these days) means that they will never give any advice that will not be well within their remit, and they will actively discourage supplements or other unfamiliar complementary steps patients might take which might improve their wellbeing, because they know nothing about the effects. Pharmacists are in the same situation. That is not to criticise the medical profession, many of whom I know very well and would trust with my life, and to whom I owe my life. Since retiring I've had a mastectomy in 2017 (well recovered), clotting problems now well controlled and likely due to a reaction to my oral chemotherapy, and major life saving abdominal surgery in 2019 due to my diverticulitis causing a perforated gut. I have well controlled AF and hypertension (both now well controlled). I take Apixaban (which presumably is the same or similar to Endoxaban, as well as Bisoprolol and Candesartan for the AF and hypertension. I've given details of my problems as an indicator that someone with what many would consider multiple problems and possible vulnerabilities is thriving on CoQ10.

I have used supplements to help augment my wellbeing during many busy years at work, so I'm used to researching for myself and making my own decisions. I've taken CoQ10 for around 20 years. Presently take 400mg daily, split into two doses. I increased to this higher dose due to extra pressure recovering from my major surgery in late 2019 followed on by Covid in early 2020, plus an unpleasant reaction to the AZ vaccine. Never had any problems from the higher dose, though I am reducing down again now to 300mg at the age of 77 years. I have found the higher dose more effective as I age. If you considered taking CoQ10 I would suggest you start with 30mg once daily and increase to 100mgs after a couple of months if you felt you wanted to try the higher dose. You will not likely feel terrifically different as you are replacing what you don't manufacture as you get older, though you may find you get fewer episodes or less noticeable interludes of AF and increased energy levels.

Stephen Sinatra was an American cardiologist (died in 2022) who has done much work with CoQ10, and you can find his book "The Coenzyme Q10 Phenomenon" as a new paperback, plus second hand copies, on Amazon. That book is not available as a Kindle, though others which look more specifically at his heart work are. You might like to look at all his books and read the reviews, some of which are quite detailed.

Finally I did a brief trawl on drug interactions. Sources I encountered indicated there were no contra indications with Eliquis, which is the manufacturer's name for Apixaban. I also found a shortish general article by Stephen Sinatra's son, Drew who is also a doctor, which talks specifically about interactions with the various types of anticoagulants which give Eliquis the all clear. At the end of the day one has to research oneself and make a personal decision, our doctors will generally not take the plunge to endorse that decision, but neither will they condemn you for acting independently on good personal research, and the pharmaceutical companies will never endorse something they cannot make millions out of. Sorry this is an extended read, but I hope it helps your decision.

healthydirections.com/artic...

drugs.com/drug-interactions...

[Auriculaire in reply to SEA1945]

Since doubling my Q10 dose to 200mg last autumn I have had fewer episodes of afib. I also doubled taurine to 1000mg and upped magnesium to 400mg so hard to know which of these has helped or the combo of all 3 . I am wondering about increasing the Q10 again .

[SEA1945 in reply to Auriculaire]

I cannot comment on the taurine, I'm afraid, as no experience of it. My knowledge of supplements has been gleaned from widespread reading over the years for health conditions generally, and from a variety of nutritional websites which I have grown to trust, such as Dr Sarah Brewer and Dr Axe (I note Dr Axe has a page on taurine). I do take 400mgs magnesium as a general supplement with other minerals to avoid osteoporosis and as a good general supporter, and 400mg seems to be the optimal dose. If you have found Q10 200mg has helped with your AF episodes it makes sense to try 300mg for a couple of months and see what happens. I have just been browsing Stephen Sinatra's books, and this one gets enthusiastic reviews on Amazon as a specific for improved heart health "Reverse Heart Disease Now", which I'm considering for myself, along with British GP Malcolm Kendrick's "The Clot Thickens" which has been on my list for a few months.

[Mowgli44 in reply to SEA1945]

I’ve just ordered the co enzyme Q10 Phenomenon from Amazon. Thank you

[SEA1945 in reply to Mowgli44]

👍

[Nandini66 in reply to SEA1945]

To SEA 1945– a very good year! 😉 Excellent information. I agree. On Eliquis but have been taking CoQ10 100 for 30 years when began 5 mg Crestor ( Rosuvastatin). Recently upped to 200mg CoQ10. Will check out Stephen Sinatra. Thanks.

[SEA1945 in reply to Nandini66]

Thanks for the comment. You're welcome, and best wishes.

[Mowgli44]

thank you so much for your comprehensive and detailed reply which I really appreciate, AF is relatively new to me so I’m just adjusting to it. I follow on YouTube a cardiologist called Dr Sanjay Gupta. He recommends magnesium tourate and also vitamin C for AF. Sadly he hasn’t mentioned Q10 so far. I shall have a re think now and make the decision myself. Thank you for replying

[SEA1945 in reply to Mowgli44]

All messages received. Best wishes.

[Mowgli44]

sorry my reply above is intended for SEA1945

[SEA1945 in reply to Mowgli44]

You're very welcome. 🙂

[kocoach]

I had the exact same question about "apixaban" and called my VA Hospital. Anticoag dept transferred me to cardiology and the Dr. I spoke with about coq10 and anticoagulant. He put me on hold and said he was going to ask his other colleagues and when came back he said there was no problem's at 200mg or less and he even read to me from research done on this subject saying any dosage of coq10 over 200mg was of no use, just a waste of money, as I was taking 600mg a day, he also said the study done that he was reading to me from was done using 200mg. Hope this helps. Have a Blessed Day

[Mowgli44 in reply to kocoach]

thank you!