I walk about 4 miles at a decent pace about 3 times a week I never get a flutter other times I can watch tv or go to bed and I get a flutter
Any reason why it happens this way around
AF exercise : I walk about 4 miles at a... - Atrial Fibrillati...
AF exercise
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NLGA
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BobDVolunteer
You have AF. It is a mongrel.
sorry BobD not fully understanding do you mean like it goes it’s own thing
Everybody is different. AF is not consistent and no two people experience it the same in general. What affects one doesn't another and so on. Some people find exercise causes their AF, others that it stops it. Some may find certain foods do it, others a cold drink. You think of it and somebody says it starts their AF.
You have AF so you will have AF. How often or how limiting is another unknown. All treatment be it drugs or ablation is for quality of life (QOL) as it is not life threatening, just life changing. And very annoying !
hi John
It is a little low around 55-60
I am guilty of eating late around 8 830 due to my work do you could be in to something
Just Sunday I had a lovely lovely walk around the cliffs. No problems. Went down street. Into a shop AF kicked in. I can stand at my work finish go home sit down AF kicks in. Never makes sense to me either.
👍
Yes, definitely eat earlier and lighter in the evening. Also suggest changing walking to half the distance and twice as often ie daily if poss. Avoid late night TV crime thrillers.
Back in the day (and with the same HR as you) my AF (nb not had flutter) would start when I sat down in the evening or, due to it being influenced by the Vagus Nerve or sleep apnoea, when I went to bed.
As BobD says AF is mongrel and never consistent between two people. To me given we are all a bit different in our bodies and lifestyles and the fact that AF involves (via the Vagus Nerve) our 3 biggest centres the heart, brain and gastric area this comes as no real surprise!
What it does mean is that you have to address many areas for any measure of success. Personal view again I am afraid but I believe AF/Flutter is caused by a build up of poor lifestyle choices in the majority of people, so when AF is triggered (analogy: the straw that breaks the camel's back) could be any one of a number of circumstances, hence the confusion of what causes it. To address this, I looked at all parts of my lifestyle.
I would accept it is a journey to better QOL not a destination. Start making changes (accepting it will be trial and error) today however small and keep doing them.
To finish on a positive note, AF doesn't ruin your life it changes it and whereas I would like to get the monster off my back for good, I will be forever grateful to it for the many changes it has forced.
Firstly, when you say flutter, do you mean Atrial Flutter rather than Atrial Fibrillation? They are very different beasts.
Vagal AF is stimulated either by exercise or by lying prone or by another stimuli such as food or drink. Most of my AF was nocturnal but changes of position such as bending down or being very active - pushing a lawn mower for me was a cert - could also trigger AF. My HR used to drop also as did my BP. Some of these changes were explained by sleep apnea so although AF is a mongrel condition, there are certain known factors which contribute to your individual pattern. I have never accepted that it is just a mongrel condition and to treat everyone in the same way.
Apart from finding the right treatment for you, there are lifestyle hacks, as secondtry outlined which certainly help reduce, if not stop, AF - such as smaller, lighter meals and having a clear 3 hours of not eating before lying prone. Intermittent fasting has also shown to be helpful, learning breath control - most of us breath shallow and fast, managing stress levels and anxiety, if you have low BP - raise head of bed slightly, sleep patterns - getting up at the same time each morning - morning light controls hormone levels obviously difficult if you are a shift worker but there are other hacks for that,
Experiment with the suggestions you have and see if any help.
Drugs did not work for me at all, ablations did for a while, change of lifestyle had the biggest impact and I felt more in control rather than AF/AFl controlling my life but the two most helpful factors were CPAP for sleep apnea and pacemaker.
Best wishes
Interesting that you mention lying prone - does this mean lying on your front? For many years I have been unable to sit comfortably for very long due to a dodgy back, so when I am not moving around or at table I lie down. Up till a few years ago I could lie on my back or my side immediately after eating with no bother or discomfort. Since dealing with afib I can't. But I can lie on my stomach as long as I prop myself up on my elbows. I usually sit at the table for about 15 mins after my dinner then finish the washing up before lying down . I have to lie propped on my elbows for about an hour and then turn onto my left side. I have found that I am more likely to go into afib at any time lying on my right side. Whilst lying on my front I practise the deep breathing. This seems to work for me. I am sure for me the stress caused by the pain of sitting for 3 hours after a meal would be worse for provoking afib!
to be honest since June I have been a lot better on what I eat but I take your point
It was explained to me that sitting and laying down brings the heart into physical contact with other organs; this can cause ectopic beats and those can start AF.
Steve
Hi NLGA,
I am one of those vagal Afibbers where Afib kicks in as soon as I lie down.
For the last 2 weeks or so I have been trialing something new with my Vagal Afib. I bought a unit that connects to my road bicycle so it now like an exercise bike.
10 minutes before bedtime I get my heart rate up to 115bpm on the bike, which takes about 4 minutes.
I then go to bed and don't have Afib, during the night my Afib burden is now much lower than it was before I started this regime. ie perhaps 20 seconds of Afib picked up by my monitor whilst asleep.
When we go away for a weekend I just jog on the spot on the bathroom mat to get up to 115bpm, not as enjoyable as on the bike.
Would you be interested in also trialing this to see if it lowers your Afib burden?
Iv undertaken strenuous heavy jobs on the house over the years, EG demolished a small out building by hand then filled skips with the rubble and afib never showed at all.
But yet I have been sat with a cup of tea reading then for no reason gone into afib😡
I must agree with bob, afib is definitely a mongrel.
That's definitely me. Just up till diagnosis 2 months ago I never knew what it was though.
Hi
Interesting.
My late husband worked Mon - Sat and was home shortly after midday on Sat. He would read the paper on the floor after lunch and fall asleep on the floor.
He suffered migraines maybe once a month. Sunday wake up but staying in bed all day.
Seemed to happen at the 'relaxing time".
cheri. JOY
ves it’s very strange isn’t it.!! I will never understand it.? Iv nearly sent myself mad over the years trying to work out what may trigger a episode etc.!!!
Hi
No alternative supplement to sugar?
Just thinking.
I have no triggers as the thyroid cancer and hyper was the factor.
Could be a genes thing but USA's survey make 1 in 5 if I remember rightly have AF. That makes it a 'ordinary' occurrence.
But mine H/R is unusual with rapid and persistent Day and Low (47) night.
I dont feel it but I conk out of energy when I use my energy more like elevation walking up hills or just simply carrying or bending alot.
Just keep guessing without anxiety, Jetcat. I'm trying to visualize a cat in a jet or a cat as a jet.
Cheri Ha ha. JOY
My dog I named Jaz and then I think Jazi. Jazamadaz!
no I don’t take it. Weird as it is I don’t like sweet stuff. I can eat anything sweet but do not enjoy it all so I leave it. This came about when I was around 18 years old. I could eat them as a child but seem to go off the taste as I got older.😳
My little old cat is jet black, and I call her jetcat.👍She follows me everywhere and waits for me on the garden wall coming home from work to greet her. She follows me into town when I go shopping and even sits with me in my garage when I’m working. I made her a pallet wood bed complete with fluffy blankets for her to lay in while she sleeps her chicken breast dinner off.👍 that’s why my name is jetcat.😁x
Hi
Well I give up Jetcat.
May be you are allergic to RELAXATION ha ha!
cheri JOY
I’m not.😂 I love a lay down with the TV. I tend not to do anything too strenuous this last couple of years. Normal walking or a little ride on cycle and that’s it.! I leave any building work to builders etc as I can’t be bothered anymore.😂
HI
i'm retired now for a long while and enjoy reading, a little gardening, choir, walking and camper fun.
Nothing wrong with that. 3 years since the stroke,AF and Thyroid Cancer.
RELAXATION after exertion I have to.
I live for me, kids, grandchildren and now great grandchildren.
Monday I spent some time in our Farmers shop buying 2 toys with 1 at half price. Clothes for the girls and a shirt for son. However carrying them weighed me down.
I've never been a sweet tooth eater. Lemon is my favourite. Sour liquorice I find interesting.
My father had diabetic leaning from WarII volunteer call up as an Engineer. No sugar in tea or coffee.
You will live a long life on cat stroking, less sugar, relaxing etc Jetcat.
cheri JOY
you’ve got a lovely carry on joy it sounds great.👍x
hey Jetcat
You are very welcome!
I can hear your purry cat PURRING!
cheri JOY
😂👍x
I think it's simply the case that under moderate exercise the heart is under stress and beating faster so the effort tends to overwhelm the missing beats. I walk three times a day and include a few steep slopes. I feel terrible but on balance it strengthens my cardiac system and doctors say it is good as long as you have no fundamental myopathy or heart failure. I have permanent AF but like you it manifests in other activities causing mental stress or when relaxing.
mental stress could be a factor
it’s very weird sometimes is our afib. A pain in the butt too especially when you throw the anxiety part of it in too.?😡
there
I am also in rapid persistent AF.
The Auckland top cardiac Dr asked me "do you do any 'heart under pressure exercise". I said walking up my road but in the other side of SH10 I have a steep climb often with a bunch of bananas.
He was happy and intrigued. "good" he said.
Even walking with a bag full on the flat is "working out".
I think it is because I have an enlarged left chamber.
Some strenuous is apparently "good" for you.
Cheri JOY
mine comes on every three weeks. Within the three weeks I can do pretty much anything but as soon as I hit the three week mark it just slips into it. Walking can sometimes get rid of it but not until it’s been going about 12 hours. I too have a very slow heart rate in the 30’s in the night, so that may play a part
That's almost identical to me except my HR is around 60 or just below at night. It hits me soon after I go to bed. I hardly notice it but am aware I an in AF. It's often so mild that I don't notice it go back into NSR and have to check my pulse to be certain.
What great suggestions you've been given. My pennyworth is could it be caused by sitting in a slouched way or by lying in bed with your knees bent, both can compress our inner organs towards the heart. Also as CDreamer has suggested could breathing in a shallow manner be the cause.
Please let us know if any of the suggestions recommended in your post work.
Jean
good suggestions amd thank you but I kind of follow most of them other than eating early which is not possible . I do think way I lay may be part of it but I don’t really understand why it starts just say in a chair
No matter how how hard I try I end up slouching in a chair. Same standing. Missus get on constantly about it.
Try eating your largest meal at lunch time and soon after your evening meal make sure to walk around the house a little. Do small tasks such as clearing up. It sounds like it might be a blood sugar response - a bit of a high and then a dip. If you just sit down after your main meal your body doesn't cope so well with the blood sugar response. This was definitely a thing with me.
Good advice for everyone, especially after evening meal when most people’s blood sugar clearance becomes less efficient.
I only found out because I had access to a blood sugar monitor for a couple of weeks, due to participating in the Zoe Nutrition Programme. Had quite a nasty hypo one evening and had to have a hasty milk with honey stirred in! I then looked back and saw that several of my apparently random AF episodes were likely due to blood sugar swings. I'm not diabetic or even pre diabetic but my body doesn't process glucose very efficiently.
Did you find that you metabolised glucose better earlier in the day and that higher BG levels were more evident in the evening? I have declined the Zoe programme because it would only resurrect my orthorexic/health anxiety tendencies and it’s only this year that I’ve only really restored my weight from being previously borderline underweight/clinical underweight for several years. I once did something similar with fingerprick tests but I didn’t think it was psychologically healthy (for me) to be micromanaging my diet. Ideally I’d like to eat earlier in the evening but can’t because my husband wouldn’t be home from work, but I also learned recently that melatonin levels, which start to increase in the evening, tend to increase BG levels or slow down its disposal, so it’s better not to eat when melatonin starts to rise. So that might be another way of managing the increased BG levels in the evenings.
Hi. I totally get your point re health anxiety and micromanagement as I definitely suffered from that when I'd just been diagnosed with AF and the pandemic hit. I wasn't overweight in the first place but became so obsessive that I was eating half my normal amount in the evenings and lost weight too fast. Am fine now but it was a lesson. I don't really know the answer to your question re morning over evening times, though the point about melatonin IS something I've read, and it makes good sense. My sister - who got herself back from a prediabetic state - told me to be careful about eating high GI foods in the morning as it sets off a glucose response that might then impact on how you feel and consequently eat for the rest of the day. Let's face it, a lot of British breakfast cereals are high GI and many people don't understand which plant milks are OK yo use on that front. It was only through the Zoe Programme monitoring that I found out my BS was spiking after breakfast due to my.having organic, no added sugar rice milk. It has a high GI - oat milk also. I kept wondering why my HR would spike mid morning. That's all stopped since I changed the rice milk. And I nearly always go for a 20-30 minute brisk walk in the morning, which also helps.
Rice milk is overpoweringly sweet I find, and I’ve heard similar about oat milk from people who have done Zoe, that it spikes their glucose levels. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Prof Rob Thomas who is an oncologist. He’s not so much a charismatic high profile personality like Prof T Spector but he is a big believer in lifestyle changes in his own patients — but at the same time he is honest enough to say that although some people do well with lifestyle, there are others for whom it makes no difference, just as there are responders and non responders to ‘conventional’ treatments. He says to avoid added sugar on an empty stomach in the mornings, so for me that means unsweetened soya milk, unsweetened soya yogurt, plain kefir etc. He’s been interviewed on a few podcasts when his book came out but he’s a working oncologist rather than a science/health communicator so he doesn’t have much of a profile. I’ve mostly eaten porridge for decades but I always made it with water, as that’s how we had it at home and I especially like the pinhead/coarse oatmeal variety cooked in water with a little twist of salt. I’d always have fruit, yogurt and nuts too as porridge alone wouldn’t sustain me. Since the overnight oats craze I’ve departed from that quite considerably but I only ever use half a banana to sweeten, plus adding in chia seeds, nuts, cacao etc. I don’t add maple syrup or anything like that. Half a banana is plenty for me.
Thanks for sharing. I'd got into the habit of rice milk + half banana + 1 dried fig... I think the combo was my downfall so to speak. Funnily enough I didn't 'taste' the sugar in the rice milk but I certainly noticed it when I swapped. Took me weeks to get over that one. Now plotting reintroducing a half banana. It's cold after all now and like you - the porridge on it's own isn't enough. Have you tried putting in a few chia seeds? You need to soak them overnight but I always soak my porridge or bircher oats anyway.
Yes, chia seeds all the way plus ground flaxseed and often camelina seeds too. Some days a spinkle of ground hemp hearts on top. Definitely need to soak pinhead oats but the regular oats I’m 50:50 about soaking. I know people have this thing and phytates etc but I don’t consider it a problem especially as I’m an iron overloader but TBH it doesn’t prevent my iron levels from going up, but whether that’s just me or the so-called ‘anti nutritient’ hype is exaggerated by people trying to sell the next fad, who knows? But people can choose, especially if they are strictly vegan and perhaps are at greater risk of deficiencies. I do soak rye, barley and wheat/spelt flakes as they don’t take so long to cook.
That’s interesting that you have high iron, as I too have an unexplained high iron level. I have my bloods done privately a couple of times a year and was told to “stop the supplements”. Only trouble was I wasn’t taking any! I backed off red meat for a while and it eventually dropped down below the dangerous level. Curious eh?!?
I have hereditary haemochromatosis, so not unexplained in my case but many people are undiagnosed, so worth getting a proper “iron panel” done, not just ferritin.
Generally, Exercise is good for you while sitting in a chair isn’t.
To add to your analogy, when you put cheap contaminated fuel in the tank, it misfires, but use good wholesome petrol and there are fewer problems! 
Hi
Just a thought please have your TSH Thyroid tested.
I used to have palpations in my 30s. I was stressed.
Now at 70s had a stroke, with AF and diagnosed 4 days later
with the slow moving Papillary Thyroid cancer whilst having a scan for my carotid arteries. They were all clear.
A embolic clot stuck in my left frontal lobe whereas they thought the clot would be found at the back of my head.
Are you stressed them when it happens?
cheri. JOY. 73. (NZ)
Same for me, I have no AF with stress or exercise, only when relaxed or sleeping. I woke up a few weeks ago at 3am with a heart rate pushing 200, bouncing all over the place. I can do intense cardio exercise without a care in the afternoon each day, perfect NSR.
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