Natural alternative to blood thinners

[Electricblue1]

I’m interested to know if anyone takes anything natural to thin blood rather than blood thinners to the strength that a tablet would be. Let me know .

[BobD Volunteer]

This is a common question but it must be clearly understood that so called natural anticogulants are unquantifiable as far as efficacy is concerned and equivalent to playing Russian roulette. Not reccomended!

[Auriculaire in reply to BobD]

Not true. There has been plenty of research done on nattokinase by Japanese and Chinese researchers. It has both anti coagulant and anti aggregant properties as well as being antihypertensive and neuroprotective. So an all round very useful substance. It is not because the efficacy is unquantifiable that we have no concrete dosing advice but because the large scale trials that would be necessary for this have not been and will not be done . The only people with the resources to do this are large drug companies and there is no way they will assist testing a substance that cannot be patented and that might be a serious rival for a whole bunch of their present moneyspinners.

[bayonnejoe1 in reply to Auriculaire]

Please provide links to the studies you've mentioned. Thank you.

[Auriculaire in reply to bayonnejoe1]

I'm useless at links. Look it up . Put in a search . Like I did.

[bayonnejoe1 in reply to Auriculaire]

I did. There hasn't been "plenty of research done on nattokinase by Japanese and Chinese researchers" and it's "anti coagulant" properties as you claim. Suggesting nattokinase as an alternative to standard anti-coagulant in addressing AF stroke risk is dangerous and lacks evidence based research. Invoking "big pharma conspiracy" hysteria doesn't change that reality. And ignoring the money made by "natural remedy" pill pushers, which itself runs in the billions, offers little solace when it comes to the propensity of greed as a motivator in both industries. Sticking to the best science available remains the best path imho.

[Auriculaire in reply to bayonnejoe1]

I did not suggest it. I said that what Bob said about it not being possible to quantify efficacy was not true. I said that the research had shown various properties including anticoagulation.Efficacy for" natural " substances can be quantified using the same methodolgy as is used for pharmaceuticals. There has been research done on nattokinase comparing it as a clot buster against standard clotbusting drugs used in ischaemic stroke. There is no scientific reason why trials could not be done to see if it has a use in afib. The research done by Japanese, Chinese and Korean researchers into the properties of nattokinase has been limited to small trials. Large trials will not be done for the reasons I gave. No drug company is going to trial a substance that cannot be patented and which might rival their own products. This is not a conspiracy - simply good business practice on their part . Without large scale clinical trials dosing requirments cannot be determined. Natto has been eaten in Japan for hundreds of years. The Japanese had very low levels of cardiovascular disease including ischaemic stroke until very recently- when western dietary habits started to gain some ground. As far as the best science available is concerned there is no long term safety profile for any DOACas they have not been on the market long enough. What is more they are not without side effects .

[LaceyLady in reply to bayonnejoe1]

Have you read the lists if side effects on scientifically tested drugs! They companies are not interested in improving those.

[bigphil1951 in reply to bayonnejoe1]

goggle search PMC6043915

[LaceyLady in reply to Auriculaire]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Auriculaire in reply to LaceyLady]

Thank you for posting this. I came across an article by one of the authors with an easy to digest summary of some of the info in it.

[Tomred]

i take nattokinase , but hasten to add someone on here awhile back said they had a stroke whilst taking it .

[Auriculaire in reply to Tomred]

I had a TIA but I was taking a very small dose. That is the problem. So far there is no concrete research for how much you need to take to avoid clot formation in afib. One of the benefits of nattokinase is that it not only has anticoagulent properties it is also a clot buster. It's clot busting capacity has been tested against other clot busters used for ischaemic stroke and it has performed well. What dose do you take?

[Tomred in reply to Auriculaire]

hi ,ive only been taking 2000 fu per day along with garlic and omega 3s, there seems to be less info on the web these days.

[Sustainedvtach270]

Cod liver oil. But cannot be taken with some type of blood thinners.

[philologus]

Red blood cells are produced in the flat bones and to escape into the bloodstream they shed their nucleus. This makes them smaller, lighter and more flexible which is what is needed for them to pass through the narrowest channels.

If they kept their nucleus they would be too big, wouldn't be able to be squashed to shape and would be much heavier so would require a LOT more effort from the heart to get them round the system.

A healthy, properly charged, red blood cell has a negative charge round its entire outer surface.

This means that red blood cells that are properly charged will repel each other naturally (opposites attract - similar repels). This reduces clumping/clotting and could, therefore, be classed as a natural 'blood thinner'.

I have often put comments on here about this under the umbrella of 'Earthing/Grounding' in the context of reducing the number of 'rogue' electrical signals that the heart gets.

There is a lot of evidence that our body's electrical systems are disrupted by the electric 'smog' that we have produced and we have reduced our contact with 'Mother Earth' to the point where we don't Earth ourselves much at all. (We insulate ourselves by having man-made soles on our shoes, carpets, vinyl, etc)

Until recently (sold out now) I sold Earthing mats on Ebay and I have been using one myself for about three years now and no longer have problems with ectopics and have managed to reduce my heart Failure from level 4 to level 1.

Sorry for the long post but I felt it was important that we realise that we really do benefit from Earthing/Grounding ourselves.

[Auriculaire in reply to philologus]

Interesting. I was reading an article in my email box today about how wearing sunglasses and staying indoors too much is harming our health. The lack of natural sunlight entering our eyes has a wide ranging effect on bodily systems other than visual. There is an epidemic of myopia eapecially in younger people and some research points to lack of sunlight being a factor.

[philologus in reply to Auriculaire]

Jacob Liberman's book 'Light. Medicine of the future' is an interesting read. He gets a bit evangelical about it towards the end of the book but there's a lot of food for thought in there.

I researched this a few years ago and I now use a lamp designed by a friend and myself.

It has LEDs with various wavelengths from blue at 415 wavelength to near infra red (non-heating) at 940 .

The blue light sets the body clock for the day and then it knows when to release the various chemicals it produces. The infra red does the opposite - it tells us when it's time to shut down.

It has helped me a lot. I also use it to make my own 'structured water'. If this is of interest google 'The 4th phase of water' there's lots of Ted talks etc on this and it is worth looking into.

There's also some very interesting research being done on the effects of infra red on dementia. I think that is 1070 wavelength but I'd have to check.

The free version of Earthing is always available. Just kick off your shoes and socks and stand on the ground - grass, earth, sand, etc for twenty minutes before bed and see how much better you sleep. Take a chair out and sit with your feet on the Earth while you have a nice cuppa.

Try it - it's free!

Best wishes,

George

[Auriculaire in reply to philologus]

I'm always worried about ticks in our garden!

[JuliaJa]

I was on Nattokinase and had a blood clot in my femoral artery.

[MarkS]

Warfarin is a natural anticoagulant. It is derived from mouldy clover. It has the advantage that clinical trials have shown it is very effective and its effectiveness can be monitored and optimised.

[LaceyLady in reply to MarkS]

Rat poison 😜

[Tickerprobs in reply to LaceyLady]

And Lacey…Have you noticed that rats never complain about hair loss‼️‼️. Just thought I’d mention it for the benefit of ‘the hair loss conspirators’. 🤪

[LaceyLady in reply to Tickerprobs]

It is NOT a conspiracy, I have found article on a NH site confirming they can cause hair loss.

[riffjack846]

I tried taking a combination alternative of (ginger, ginko, turmeric, and grapeseed extract) but it didn't stop me from having a mini stroke last year. The cardiologist at the ER said there is no real good substitute for a pharmaceutical blood thinner for people that have PAF. I will probably be on Eliquis for life even though I have been AF episode free for over a year. Beware.

[riffjack846 in reply to riffjack846]

I was also taking Natto and Serrapeptase as well. Hope this helps.

[Auriculaire in reply to riffjack846]

A friend in the UK had a pulmonary embolism on Apixaban.

[riffjack846 in reply to Auriculaire]

Oh great, something else to worry about. AF strives on stress.

[secondtry]

I take daily Krill oil and 2 pieces of garlic. Over the weekend fruitflowplus.com/a-powerfu... was also recommended to me.

Equally important, I am very active: walking briskly 2 miles per day plus other hobbies. Drinking plenty of water and reducing heavy meals and sugar.

Avoid Risks any build up of sedentary factors e.g. a lazy time plus a long car ride without breaks.