OK this one has hit me. Do I regret having it - no way. Make sure you have someone to drive you as it can affect you. It has with me - do I regret it ??? Nope not at all. Get stuck in asap. 24 hours were I might feel a little poorly but that's better than covid.
Rest up after having it (third one) and you will be ok. So sleeply after this one a good nights sleep awaits. No HR problems just tired and feel 'not with it'. I think people thought I was drunk afterwards - that's the effect it had with me. Found it hard to walk.
Don't let that put you off. Get stuck in and make sure you have a day afterwards when you can relax. Don't worry and go for it
Paul
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Sure Jean. It was the Pfizer - I should have stayed a little longer in the place after I received it. It's a one off and I don't want it to put others going because of my post. I feel fine now - just sleepy. I'm sure I'll be 100% fine after a good nights sleep.
I'll report back in the morning - however I may take the post down after then as I don't want it to put others off. It could have just been my afib kicking in - who knows ? I did feel really poorly though. Still I'm really pleased I had it done.
Don't let put you off Tom. Honest I'm 100% fine now - just rest up for an hour after. The chances are you'll be 100 % fine so don't worry. Nothing to it.
The one thing I don't want is for people to be put off. If I get a few more requests to take the post down I'll do so.
Thing is there's no need. You'll be fine so don't worry. I don't want it to put people off though - HR fine and back to normal service.
Useful post, Paul - please leave it as we are better informed that way. Sorry you feel bad but, hopefully it'll pass quickly. I had AZ for the first two - was fine but my Moderna booster made me feel woozy for a day or so.
Sure John - I'll let it run. I don't want people to read it though and not get jabbed because of a forum post. That's why. I'm not a medic and there is much crap on the internet - this was my experience though. It doen't mean others will have the same. That's the reason why I said I could take the post down - still might. I don't want people to read things online that might not apply to them.
We need to know the good bad and ugly and no matter what anyone here has to say I shall make up my own mind about the booster. Knowledge is power and just because some get off scot free that's fantastic, others aren't so lucky and it's not about spreading mis information but fact, like this really happened. Let's listen to what everyone has to say and make up our own mind.
Wrong. You can't make up your own mind and thereby draw a meaningful conclusion. You will exhibit confirmation bias in any conclusion you draw. Let the scientists do their job and they will tell you what has the highest confidence limits of being correct.
I'm sure the confidence limits of the scientists are a huge comfort to those individuals who have been badly damaged by by the vaccines- or any other medical intervention for that matter. Having been damaged by an antibiotic that the manufacturers say is safe and efficacious it is of no comfort to me whatsover if doctors say such damage is very rare. As for the vaccines the phase III clinical trials excluded lots of categories of people and others were very poorly represented. So where do the stats come from for those people?
Exactly. But Wonkyheart seems to think we can't choose meaningfully for ourselves. In the end we have to follow our gut feelings. I didn't . I got vaccinated against my gut feeling.
Correct, the confidence limits that have been determined should be of great comfort to those who have suffered side effects. They show that far more good than harm is done to the population overall.
You have had an adverse, very rare (your words), reaction. It happens you need to deal with it, accept it and not wallow in self-pity. Antibiotics have and continue to save millions of lives.
Well actually it is not that rare . My words were that doctors tell you that. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people who suffer from Fluoroquinolone toxicity syndrome for which there is no cure. That's what happens when powerful antibiotics which were developed for serious conditions like anthrax and plague are dished out like sweeties by lazy doctors for sinusitis and as a prophylactic for travellers diarrhoea. You see there's no money in anthrax or plague . Antibiotics have been life savers. But only an idiot these days would not concede that they have been overused both for humans and livestock. Research has shown that in a great deal of cases where antibiotics are given they are not needed at all or the wrong antibiotic is used. We are constantly being warned that the day is coming soon when antibiotics will no longer be saving millions of lives due to resistance. Today even after the new guidelines from the FDA and the EMA Fluoroquinolones are still being prescribed for minor conditions before a safer antibiotic is used. As for dealing with it what do you suggest? I find the tone of your post appalling and totally lacking in compassion. I do not wallow in self pity. I get on with my life as best I can despite being in a great deal of pain from cartilage degeneration. As for those who suffer side effects from the vaccines a look at Pfizer's 6 month data for the phase III clinical trial would not comfort them that much. They show that more people died in the vaccine arm than the placebo arm.
So you took antibiotics for a condition that didn't need it, you deserve everything you get then. As you correctly say, they are overused.
When doctors say a side effect is 'very rare' it has a defined quantified meaning - 1 in 10000. No debate, fact.
I suggest you deal with it by understanding you were the one in 10000, accepting that and not scaremongering others by shutting up.
DO NOT try to draw me me into a discussion about the government vaccine. That is banned on the forum, for exactly the reason stated above, morons scaremongering and harming the health of the public.
I was prescribed my first course of Cipro 30 years ago for sinusitis. This was long before doctors were nagged about antibiotic resistance. I suspect now the sinusitis was caused by the air pollution in Birmingham as I had just moved there. The antibiotics prescribed by the doctor did no good. They did provoke Achilles heel tendonitis. At that time many of the side effects for which Fluoroquinolones have now got black box warnings in America were not on the patient info leaflet despite the signaling from some French doctors that they were causing cartilage problems. I only discovered this forum because my last exposure to Cipro provoked afib. Given that the incidences of side effects are those indicated by the manufacturers who have every motive to underestimate them they are unlikely to be accurate. This is compounded by underreporting by doctors and patients to pharmacovigilance bodies. Floxies like myself will certainly not shut up about the danger of Fluoroquinolone antibiotics. The change in guidelines for their use by the FDA and EMA show that they have been used inappropriately . They conceded that the risk /benefit profile does not justify their use in all but the most serious conditions or where another antibiotic cannot be used. They are still being used inappropriately as damaged people are seeking help on forums after having being prescribed them ( without another antibiotic being tried first) for the conditions the FDA and EMA warned they should not be used for. I don't give a toss if you call that scaremongering. Since when is discussion of the vaccines banned on the forum ? Please point out the post from admin that says this.
So what? You have said nothing which changes fact that you are refusing to take ownership of your situation and continue to wallow in learned helplessness playing the victim. As stated above, you must accept your condition and stop trying dangerously influence others by spreading misinformation.
You are a nasty piece of work who obviously knows nothing about Fluoroquinolone toxicity and has no compassion for those who have been damaged by medications. Telling people they deserve all they get because they trusted their doctor and took a prescribed medication. I bet you would not say that to someone with a vaccine injury. A young person with no comorbities who had very little risk from covid but ended up with myocarditis from the vaccine for instance. Warning people about the dangers of certain medications is not spreading misinformation. These dangers are real. Or perhaps you belong to the "it's all in your head " brigade. What right have you to accuse people of "wallowing in learned helplessness playing the victim" . I suspect you are a Pharma troll.
Having compassion and your personal view of me has nothing to do with the facts of the benefits to society of medication and the danger of morons trying to undermine this.
I would happily and gladly say that to one of the very small predicted minority who had a severe reaction, telling them, or their relatives if they had died, that what they had done was the correct thing to do and statistically the safest.
I have no connection now or at any time with the pharmaceutical industry. This assertion just shows the level of paranoia.
You certainly chose the right pseudo. Also you are a nitwit if you think all medication is of benefit to society. You seem to view this subject in black and white . Never heard of Vioxx , Avandia , Mediator , Trovan etc etc? Medication is assessed in terms of benefit and risk and some drugs turn out to have more of the latter than the former. That's why they are withdrawn from the market. It's often people who are damaged bringing this to the regulators or some brave doctor speaking out (as in the case of Mediator) that starts off this process. But of course they should keep their mouths shut and too bad if thousands more are damaged.
Yes, anyone that has a suspected adverse reaction they should keep their 'mouths shut' and report it through the correct channels for proper scientific evaluation.
I make up my own mind by listening to the scientists, there are so many different directions we all could have taken by listening to them, in a couple of years we will really know the way to go. What I'm saying, be confident in what you are doing and go for it.
"there are so many different directions we all could have taken by listening to them"
My point exactly, if the general public listen to the debate not the outcome they get confused as they do not understand the scientific process. They cannot help but let their biases and prejudice influence their decisions.
There are those among the public who do understand the scientific process and can understand that when a trial is described as "observer blind" that this is not the same as "double blind" . Some are capable of understanding the difference between "relative" and "absolute" risk and some are even capable of understanding studies conducted by scientists that go against the orthodoxy of the moment . Above all there are those who understand that science is NEVER settled , that true science thrives on doubt and controversy . Otherwise as far as medical science is concerned we would still be poisoning patients with mercury and arsenic and (as was orthodox in the 50s ) insisting on strict bed rest for 6 weeks after a heart attack.
The terms you have used are used in scientific discussion, not process. Unless you understand the process, based on statistics and mathematical modeling you cannot and should not take part in the discussion. This understanding only comes with a solid education and many years of application. Again the take home message is shut up and stop spreading nonsense to the detriment of the health of society.
like Imperial's mathematical modelling ? As far as clinical studies are concerned whether it is observer blind, double blind , observational is part of the process of how the trial is conducted. So what about the people who have had the years of solid education and come to different conclusions about what is best for the health of society? Because there are such people.
You are trying to use generalised words and language to make scientific arguments. You have just demonstrated the fact stated above that the general public cannot and must not get involved.
To further prove this point you enquire about people who draw different conclusions. These would be labeled as wrong by science. Sadly the misguided public listen to people (those which suit their prejudice and world view ) and not science, which is the output of of those working in the area.
I see . So maybe you could explain how science can label what some scientists say as "right" and what other scientists with equally good credentials say as "wrong". Because science is not some disembodied concept like God but the sum of what scientists have dicovered using the scientific method. It is progressing and conclusions are changing all the time .The people I am referring to are scientists. Virologists ,molecular geneticists , infectious disease specialists , biochemists. Only more information and time will show who is wrong. Oh and while we are at it what makes you the arbiter of what is information and misinformation? Also I would suggest you write to the BMJ and castigate them for spreading misinformation re the letter published on the 13 th from 20+ doctors working in the NHS ( including 2 professors) supporting the House of Lords committee that warned against making the covid vaccines mandatory for health care workers. Actually your response is rubbish. You are obviously one of these "the science is settled " people who does not understand what science is.
As you say, science is the sum of the results generated using sound methods. These results will lead to a conclusion. Any scientists that refute this conclusion are wrong. Very few will though, but in this Internet age they get disproportionate air time due to those that use their output to support their own narrative.
The letter you describe relates to politics, not science. You obviously have trouble distinguishing between the two. Science will give the probability of the effects of vaccinating a workforce. Politicians look at the risk /benefit and decide what to do. These unelected medical professionals have no place to meddle in politics in the same way the public must not enter into scientific debate.
Not that it is any if your business, but FYI I have a PhD from Durham in a classical science and was a research scientist for over 20 years. At no point have I said or implied science is 'settled'.
I see . So it is politicians who work for the FDA or EMA and decide whether of not drugs or medical devices should be licensed or withdrawn. Funny -I thought it was scientists who analysed the risk / benefit profiles of such things . Politicians have scientific advisors to help them make these decisions . They often decide what to do on assessing the risk /benefit of them remaining in power or satisfying troublsome elements within their party rather than what is to the public's benefit. If you really think that the conduct of the response to this pandemic has been decided by science rather than politics you are living in cloud cuckoo land. The two have become hopelessly muddled. Nor do you seem to pay any heed to the depth of corruption of medical science by money. These doctors have every right to express their doubts about the safety and efficacy of these vaccines in a letter to a medical journal . You have not answered the point about whether their letter was "misinformation" . Or what makes you the arbiter of what is "misinformation". Having a PhD in a classical science and being a research scientist for twenty years simply means that you know a great deal about your own subject. Can you honestly say that "sound methods " are actually being used in other branches of science? As far as current medical science is concerned former editors of the BMJ and the NEJM would not. They maintain that most of what is published in the medical journals is unreliable .
Please apply some logic and consistency to your discussion to avoid talking nonsense.
The letter you referred to was stating that all front line staff should not be compulsory vaccinated this has nothing to do with FDA/EMA approval etc process you subsequently mention.
I have at no time passed comment on the politics of the pandemic or any other issues. Again your lack of any logic demonstrates how you exemplify the fact I have consistently stated that the public cannot and should not attempt to interpret scientific subjects as they will inevitably follow your example and spread misinformation.
If you feel there is corruption in medical science or any other institution you have a duty to report it to the appropriate authorities to action.
Auriculaire and Wonky heart. Please could take this to PM rather than pitching your tent on my thread. Thank you for that and I wish you both a Happy Christmas.
Paul
Edit - admin will just take it down. Let's hear about members experience about the jab and if it had an effect on their afib. That was the whole idea.
Really sorry to have upset you Paul. I just got a bit carried away. It is difficult not to respond when somebody who knows nothing about your life accuses you of wallowing in self pity and learned helplessness and playing the victim. Finishing up by saying you are emotionally stunted! Hope you are still feeling 100% and have a great Christmas. Auri.
Sigh - I know that . It was your suggestion that politicians analyse the risk benefit of courses of action informed ( or not) by science that provoked me into making that facetious comment - that you took at face value. By your logic they are no more competent than the rest of the public to meddle in these affairs. Again exactly what misinformation am I spreading? You seem to be very reluctant to specify this and simply keep throwing out this accusation over and over .What is " misinformation" in what I have said about FQ toxicity and the new guidelines given by the regulatory bodies in Europe and America. Why is pointing out that there is not total consensus about the safety and efficacy of the vaccines spreading "misinformation" . As for your last sentence . Get real. If the former editors of the two most prestigious medical journals on the planet feel they can do nothing against the corruption of the medical press other than state it is going on what chance does an ordinary member of the public have? But I don't actually expect you to answer my questions.
You are just repeating the same irrelevant points over and over and over, to try and 'win'. As a true scientist I have just repeatedly stated facts and do not get drawn in 'answering questions'.This emotionaly stunted behavior you exhibit is yet another reason the likes of you must not attempt to impose your dangerous, incorrect rants on the public. Now do just that, as politely asked by the original poster and stop.
Good for you Paul! It seems you got side effects almost immediately. I had mine 12 days ago with no side effects and yes very glad I did it too! Take care x
Hope you are tip-top, Paul. I was scared to get the booster. I had no side effects with the original Pfizer vaccinations. But the booster kicked my ***. Not as fast as you, in fact, it took an entire day. I ran a high fever & felt poorly, but the scary part was my armed swelled up like Popeye and I had an itchy painful rash next to the injection site. I finally called the pharmacist. She said many people called with this problem. She said to use a cold compress. I wish I had been doing that since the beginning because it worked, except I still have remnants of it & it's been almost 2 weeks. But it's way better than getting Covid.
Hope you feel better soon Paul. SO right what you say - you have no idea how terrible COVID makes you feel, even without serious consequences.
Just as a matter of interest - did the person giving the injection aspirate the needle prior to insertion or did you bleed after the jab? I had a small bead of blood after my jab which indicated that the needle hit a capillary in which case a tiny amount of the vaccine could have got directly into the blood stream. I felt rough for about 36 hours.
I had my booster 35 days after I developed COVID - do wish it had been the other way around. Take care.
I have read that they so not have to aspirate the needle these days, so I am wondering if that is what generally happens now, and why so many people are getting swollen arms.
Paul, my son-in-law and 7-year-old grandson are all recovering from COVID. The adults were triple vaccinated and my son-in-law was quite unwell for a few days only, my daughter has had worse colds, and my grandson had a high temperature but was still playing with his little brother (who remains clear). Recently the nurse treating me said she had pericarditis after the booster and was still having to take it easy. But she told me she had already had COVID early in the pandemic and raised her eyebrows and said 'I didn't want THAT again'. For me that said it all.
Hi Paul……Actually had my 1st Ablation on 6th December, so am really resting up as per AFA fact sheet.So far, just getting migraine aura’s most mornings, but hope they cease soon. Also, of course, feeling really tired.
I had mine last Tuesday. Only thing it was put into a nerve.. ouch stingy.
Site problem. On Doxycycline for 8cm red spot, itchy, sore and hot. With solid lump under.
Otherwise fine. Took BP and pulse working well balanced.
We might be the only population left in this world. I'm 72 and got continual unfelt A.F through undiagnosed thyroid cancer. Stroke happened when a scan ner spotted a shadow on my thyroid. Caught in time.
Its good to be alive folks. I'm a mother. nana and great nana.
Happy festive season for all 4 SURE!
Son has again reopened CHOPS a pub restaurant in upmarket spot.
Good to hear people getting their boosters! Like you I was hit hard by one of the shots, but since I’m on immunosuppressive meds, I was glad my immune system responded and fought back. Had several antibody tests, the 3rd shot really amped up my levels. The first doses didn’t do much. In the US, ppl on immune meds are getting 3 full doses plus the half-dose booster. Had my 4th/booster last week. No heart rhythm problems w any of them.
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