Is this Afib or Normal Palpations?

[RemiTravillian]

For awhile, I’ve been feeling skipped/extra beats sometimes induced by anxiety and sometimes after I eat. The ones I experience after I eat are the most intense, usually flip flopping and my anxiety increases it even more. My immediate thought was if this was Afib and I immediately panicked. Received an holter monitor and they said it was occasional pcvs and rare pacs, that’s it. Though the day I worn it, it wasn’t as bad as other days. So does this mean it was just an episode of Etopics/Normal palpitations and not Afib? Can that happen? Does food trigger normal palpitations? Please respond. I’m 19 years old.

[etheral]

Occasional PVCs are normal. Afib is completely different and perhaps someone else on the forum can direct you to specific articles explaining it. I would Google Atrial fibrillation to start. Meals with caffeine or alcohol could trigger increased ectopic beats. Certainly anxiety would make you more aware of them.

[RemiTravillian in reply to etheral]

I don’t drink alcohol or caffeine. Is there any other foods or stuff in food that trigger them?

[CDreamer in reply to RemiTravillian]

Yes many and individual to each person. Those who experience anxiety and are sensitive to certain foods often have an over sensitive autonomic nervous system - as the name suggests it’s the automatic part of the nervous system you might have heard of Fight and Flight? One of the main nerves of this nervous system is the Vagus nerve and it runs adjacent to both heart and stomach so often, when you eat or drink something it can irritate the nerve which then irritates the heart which then misfires. Then you feel something and get even more anxious which then becomes a downward spiral.

Your worry thoughts then hype everything up even further and panic sets in because that’s the alarm system going off saying something is wrong - only sometimes the alarm system is misfiring and there really isn’t an emergency.

It really, really helps if you can get some help and support on managing your stress and worry thoughts - Deep, long and slow breaths in and out.

Keeping a food/drink/symptom diary will help you identify particular food triggers - for me this was all carbs - bread, pasta, rice, potatoes so I had to just stop eating them. Cold, fizzy drinks, caffeine, sugar, artificial sweetners are all prime suspects - and you may find that you don’t have any because there sometimes is no rhyme nor reason to these palpitations.

AF is a sustained irregular, sometimes very fast, sometimes slow, heart beat so if you beat the rhythm out on a desk there would be no repeating rhythm. Skipped beats or ectopic beats are extra beats before the beat should come and are not thought to be harmful but can make you feel dreadful. Actually I thought ectopic beats worse than having AF!

Hope that helps.

[Ppiman]

These will surely be palpitations, and they are something that a very large study showed everyone of all ages having to some degree. The most common is the "PVC" with the less common being the "PAC". When I was tested for these, the cardiologist told me that he had hundreds more per day than I was suffering, and he expected to live to a ripe old age! It is said that in a prone individuals PACs can spark off atrial fibrillation and, judging from your use of the phrase "flip-flopping", I'm guessing you've read (maybe American) websites that use this term for sufferers of afib. Your tests show you don't you; and the chances are sky high that you won't.

Anxiety is hard to defeat and can overtake your thoughts easily. Tell me about it... But there's no need to become anxious about palpitations.

Steve

[RemiTravillian in reply to Ppiman]

“It is said that in a prone individuals PACs can spark off atrial fibrillation”. Hey can you further clarify this? Are you saying people who are at risk for AFib will most likely develop it if they have PACs? I’m getting tested for sleep apnea and I heard that’s a risk factor for AFib 😬

[Ppiman in reply to RemiTravillian]

Hi - my cardiologist told me this after he picked up a particularly heavy ectopic beat while listening to my heart. He said that a major source of these (PACs) is in the myocardial lining of the pulmonary veins as they enter the left atrium and it’s thought that they can precipitate fibrillation in prone individuals. Clearly it doesn’t follow that having ectopic beats means you will get fibrillation since most people get them. If you don’t mind medical jargon, you’ll find some information about this here:

academic.oup.com/cardiovasc...

Steve

[Hidden]

Hi RemiTravillian,

Yeah, look, I go along with all CD has said. I've even 'liked' her post too.

Thought I'd add a different dimension to CD's post though as it may help - my experience back in the day when I experienced AF was that in my chest it was like a squadron of butterflies in a dog fight or - AND much more likely, far more likely, a big plastic bag of worms wriggling away in heavy wet/damp soil in my chest. That was how I visualised the physical feeling I had of AF. Generally as time went on I found if my breathing was light n' easy I was normal, if my breathing was heavy and very laboured I was in AF. However, there is anecdotal evidence to suggest these could also be signs of Atrial Flutter. When I was first diagnosed I was admitted to hospital with A. Flutter, which shortly later in my stay converted itself into full blown Atrial Fibrillation.

Food was my trigger ... and here my food experience was different to the food stuff CD listed. I went gluten free, wheat free, oats free but as time went on the list grew to include a wide range of stuff like lettuce, tomatoes, onion ( but spring onion was fine), soft cheese ( hard cheese was OK), yoghurt, baked beans, eggs - fried eggs were worse than poached, fer instance, duck, pork with crackling ( butterfly pork was OK) ...... also included in this are foods with just traces of some ingredients in it), chocolate coated wheatmeal biscuits fer instance. Also, some greens, runner beans were a problem as generally were pulses, strawberries were better than raspberries is something else. I went added salt free at least 20 years ago and have been added sugar free for .... dunno, maybe 5 years now.

My personal mantra is, to calm the vagal nerve, is to have a calm heart. Thing is AF is all things to all people as you'll discover as you read through many of the posts on here. The one thing I have noticed over the last 11 years since I came on to this forum is that the ages of AF sufferers seems to be falling, sufferers are getting younger.

There ya go ... just sayin'.

John

[BobD Volunteer]

Just to be clear, "palpitations" just means that you are aware of your own heart. Anxiety and stress exacerbate this very often so as others have suggested you need to find a way to control your fears. It won't kill you for sure but it can be distresssing. Slow deep breathing usually helps.

Ectopic just means out of place but applies to PVCand PAC. What happens is that either the atrium (top chamber ) or ventricle (bottom one) fire too early so the heart gets out of phase with itself and what you feel is a thump when it sorts itself out. EVERYBODY has ectopic beats every day regardless of any other heart issues. It is a normal function of a healthy heart. Problem is that once you notice one you start to focus on them which is bad. Stay busy and relaxed and they usually fade away.

[KMRobbo]

If they are PVCs or PACs and your medics have advised they are normal and don't worry, then don't worry! In my experience worrying about them makes them worse! Worry is stress, stress releases adrenaline, adrenaline is part of your " fight or flight " response. When you were a caveman you either fought the wolf or ran away from it. You can't run away from your own heart, neither can you fight it! So IMO you get into to a self generating loop. More worry more ectopics. I am not medically trained. However I have had an ablation for afib, and an ablation for flutter. I no longer have either but do have a lot of ectopics from time to time. My EP was not worried about them , and having noticed them for 3 years with no ill effects i am almost totally unconcerned. At my worst when I had Afib i could hear my heartbeats. I was listening for afib, it certainly did not assist a good nights sleep! If you are permanently listening to your heart I suggest you try to reduce this

Post ablation it took me a year or to get out of that bad habit of listening for problems!

I cannot remember having ectopics prior to my afib, but then I was not sensitive to my heart beat at the time.

If you are concerned about what you have take your pulse.

Best place is the left side of your neck about one inch below the back corner of your jaw. You can feel your pulse really well here. use your fingers NOT your thumb. Count the beats between the "missed" beat. ( reset count after the missed beat) .

Are they regular? If so they are most likely not afib. The "missed" beat will not be regular in timing it may be the 20th , the 9th, the 39th beat, but you are monitoring the normal beats not the missed one. Afib in contrast is totally chaotic. Every beat has different timings . Mine was high rate and uncountable .

Note that your heart racing is not afib if the beats are regular. If this is stressing you your heart may be racing owing to the adrenaline. Take deep slow breaths and try to calm down.

Also note, the " Missing" beats in PACs PVCs are not missing.! They are caused by an extra beat, not generated by your sinus node. Sometimes the timing of the extra beat is such that it has emptied your heart so there is no blood to pump when you get the normal sinus beat, so you don't feel a pulse. Hence they only seem to be missing. I also understand the "empty" beat is the source of the irritating fluttery feeling if you get that symptom. I assume you must.

The more frequent the extra beats, the more irritating the fluttery feeling. I find I can now ignore anything if they are less than one in 20 quite easily. If they are more frequent it is more difficult . But they do not stop me doing anything.

You may also find if you go for a brisk walk or even a run that the ectopics disappear.

Best wishes.

[RemiTravillian in reply to KMRobbo]

Hi is it possible that my pulse can have an extra beat that makes it seem like it’s a missing beat? If so, how can I not mistake that for Afib?

[KMRobbo in reply to RemiTravillian]

Yes, that's how it works it only seems like you are missing a beat. In contrast AFib beats are very chaotic, irregular. The time between beats is almost random. I am not the biggest expert on slow rate AFib as I got a fluttery feeling for less than 10 seconds and then my heart rate went straight up to 130 to 195 bpm, sort of bouncing around the 165 bpm level, so I never got much of a chance to feel my pulse! At 165 in AFib you cannot count your beats , its too fast and also too chaotic. as the atria is fibrillating (quivering) rather than pumping the full volume from the atria. However if you have ectopics (PACS /PVCs) then I would expect your pulse will be regular until the "missed" beat, so if you take your pulse in the left neck as I described earlier you will be able to count your pulse as regular until that point. as I say the timing of the "missed" beat may be random, but all the other beats are equally spaced (assuming you are sat still as you take your pulse).

[tunybgur]

Stress is the biggest trigger for many types of arrhythmias, the more you worry about these things the worse they can get, try and ignore them and hopefully they will go away.

[TracyAdmin Partner]

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[Ablation7]

Great advice from my EP - “I worry for my patients so they don’t have to”. Loved that, and I let him, as he knows more about AF (and my heart) than I ever will. Good luck!

[jwsonoma]

My doctor happened to be listening to my heart when I had a skipped and rapid beat. He just said "Theres one" and it was normal. For me the palpitations almost felt like a soft rolling in my chest for a couple of seconds. I get them after I eat and was told the full stomach pushes on the vegal nerve.

Unfortunatley once you are aware of them you seem to notice them for a long time. But like airplane turblance your mind will eventually come to realize it won't kill you and you will become less and less aware and concerned.

For me a-fib was a regular - irregular beat pattern. In stead of "Beat..Beat..Beat.." I would feel beat.beat..pause..BEAT..beat.beat..pause..BEAT.. and it would go on for hours. My HR would go from 60 to 80-140bpm and my blood pressure would go up 20 pts top and bottom.

If you are really concerned you can get a mobile EKG taht works with your phone for about $80 that detects afib. That way you can capture the event and e-mail it to your doctor.

Prices have come down a lot. Several people on this forum have bought Alivecor.

amazon.com/Alivecor®-Kardia...

I was very worried like you when it first happened to me and just like your first really turblant flight why wouldn't you be?

This forum got me through it.

[jwsonoma]

My doctor happened to be listening to my heart when I had a skipped and rapid beat. He just said "Theres one" and it was normal. For me the palpitations almost felt like a soft rolling in my chest for a couple of seconds. I get them after I eat and was told the full stomach pushes on the vegal nerve.

Unfortunatley once you are aware of them you seem to notice them for a long time. But like airplane turblance your mind will eventually come to realize it won't kill you and you will become less and less aware and concerned.

For me a-fib was a regular - irregular beat pattern. In stead of "Beat..Beat..Beat.." I would feel beat.beat..pause..BEAT..beat.beat..pause..BEAT.. and it would go on for hours. My HR would go from 60 to 80-140bpm and my blood pressure would go up 20 pts top and bottom.

If you are really concerned you can get a mobile EKG taht works with your phone for about $80 that detects afib. That way you can capture the event and e-mail it to your doctor.

Prices have come down a lot. Several people on this forum have bought Alivecor.

amazon.com/Alivecor®-Kardia...

I was very worried like you when it first happened to me and just like your first really turblant flight why wouldn't you be?

This forum got me through it.

[saewyer]

It sounds like it is just PVCs and PACs. If it was AF, it would definitely show up.