“Relationship between psychological f... - Atrial Fibrillati...

Atrial Fibrillation Support

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“Relationship between psychological factors and atrial fibrillation” - apparently not proven

8 Replies

It’s a wet and blustery East Yorkshire morning. Not yet ventured out to get the Telegraph for my wife who only wants it for the Diabolical Sudoku. Browsing obscure journals over coffee as one does, I came across this interesting study with what seemed to me rather surprising conclusions.

I have always assumed that the relationship was accepted. And as they say, lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. I have yet to read a study that sets out to prove that dropping a one ton boulder on a man’s head from a height of thirty feet will kill him [ok it probably wouldn’t get past the ethics committee]. Sometimes it’s just bleedin’ obvious.

In this case maybe it isn’t...

journals.lww.com/md-journal...

8 Replies
Peony4575 profile image
Peony4575

Wet and blustery north west also. I get The Telegraph online . On days like this a distinct advantage .Pleased with the conclusions of this study . The last thing depressed or anxious people with AF need to hear or feel is that “they brought it on themselves”. It’s easy to see that when AF is established anxiety and stress would make it worse ( don’t they make everything worse it would be hard to see how they improved anyone’s health or QOL). Too many people presenting with arrhythmia are dismissed as being caused by anxiety without proper investigation having AF added to that list would be detrimental to patients when no causal connection has been established .

An interesting nugget as always Badger thank you for sharing

in reply to Peony4575

My presentation with AFib was complicated by the fact that my GP at the time (Oxford trained) didn’t take me seriously. In fairness, I had a ten year history of anxiety managed all that time with an SSRI. So I bought an Omron HCG-811 a forerunner of the Kardia and printed out the evidence. He lacked the good grace to apologise.My experience of many GPs, particularly the older ones, was that they often couldn’t see past an established psychiatric diagnosis, and tended to dismiss physical symptoms as functional.

The medics I know appear to have received little training in psychiatry. I believe that functional illness is a diagnosis of exclusion. There’s an old adage that 90% + of patients initially given a label of functional illness, eventually receive a correct, and physical diagnosis. This may reflect the ignorance, arrogance, incompetence or a combination, of the doctor.

By the way, does the online Telegraph have a user friendly Sudoku tab, can you put the number in in pencil first....

Peony4575 profile image
Peony4575 in reply to

Don’t do Sudoku Badger more of a crossword puzzle person myself . Am afraid your pencil wouldn’t work but they do give you unlimited access to thousands of sudoku puzzles online as part of your subscription . My episode of AF was caused by an electrolyte imbalance caused by NSAIDs my state of mind was completely irrelevant and I was never asked about it when I was sent to A&E as I was calm . I completely agree that functional disorder should be a diagnosis of exclusion but as you rightly say if anyone presents with a history of anxiety with gut pain, headache, palpitations etc they have an uphill battle to be investigated properly in the first instance. An old saying from medical school is “ if you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras” which I actually say to myself when I get symptoms it helps calm things down , but I think a lot of doctors think anxiety before disease if a patient suffers with anxiety

in reply to

Forgive me for butting in but the answer is Yes. You can put all the possible numbers in a square.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50

The connection between AF and the mind, that's an interesting fact which we've discussed many times on this forum Badger. It's good that you've brought the subject up again as it will be nice to hear some new opinions.

I know that my mind can set my AF off, that's why I've decided not to check what my pulse is doing and to give my AF as little attention as possible. It's taken me almost 16 years to have the confidence to be able to do this.

Now some people will say they were just sat relaxing, watching t.v. or at their PC when their AF started and they weren't stressed in the slightest, but my question to them would be were they breathing in a shallow manner - which I believe is another cause that will set AF off. Lack of drinking enough fluids can be another trigger as is stress.

Many times when I had an appointment coming up with my EP I would wonder if I needed to see him, as I'd been feeling so well. If a dared change it to a later date then my AF would start almost the next day. Sometimes I'd go to see him, say how great I felt and then again a few days later off it would go. Mentioning this on this forum, others agreed with me that they'd experienced the same thing. Also in the early days of my AF when I'd go off to A&E with a bad bout, my heart would often return to normal sinus rhythm very soon afterwards. Was that because I felt secure and looked after?

I look forward to the answers you get here. Must admit I quickly scanned through your link above and hope I haven't got the gist of it wrong.

Jean

in reply to jeanjeannie50

Great reply Jean, you made me chuckle. I have always remembered your advice to BREATHE DAMMIT [my words🙂]. I think that I probably go for 15 minutes without taking a deep breath, though that is unconscious so debatable.

For me, with permanent AFib, the advice is particularly useful when I am going up stairs or slopes. A bit of hyperventilation has to be blowing off some CO2 and increasing oxygen levels, well whatever, it helps me.

Having said that I vaguely remember a 1970 paper on that from a [now defunct] obscure journal published in a country the name of which eludes me. I could probably dig that out if anybody’s interested...

secondtry profile image
secondtry

My thoughts are if anybody is ever to make some serious groundbreaking progress on AF it is going to come from the new growing breed of Functional Medicinal Practitioners i.e. it is not in many cases just a heart or mind function. I think, subject to any emergencies, I have probably reached as far as I can go with medics operating/only allowed within their silos and post Covid will be on the hunt for a FMP.PS Brought up on a wet and blustery farm just outside Bridlington, miss the beach walks.

in reply to secondtry

“ silos” - an apposite analogy, made me laugh, thanks..

definition of silo “an underground chamber in which a guided missile is kept ready for firing”

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