Vitamin C To Treat AF?: Very interesting... - AF Association

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Vitamin C To Treat AF?

Barny12 profile image
Barny12

Very interesting video from our favourite cardiologist on the evidence for supplementing with vitamin C.

youtube.com/watch?v=pKBOAMm...

Spoiler alert: some promising research....but more testing needed.

42 Replies
Hidden profile image
Hidden

Thank you. What a good speaker Dr Gupta is. I would have thought that the majority of us can get all the vitamin C we need from what we eat. Being on a low FODMAPS diet, I do take vitamin C. Also because large doses are said to boost immunity and have an antioxidant effect, though I’m not sure what the evidence is for that. My wife says I take supplements because I am a hypochondriac, but what does she know, she’s only a psychiatrist.

xxxxxxxx

“Is scurvy making a comeback?”

bbc.co.uk/news/health-35380716

Barny12 profile image
Barny12 in reply to Hidden

You can check your vitamin/mineral etc levels on Cronometer:

cronometer.com/

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to Barny12

Does the company offer blood tests?

Barny12 profile image
Barny12 in reply to Hidden

No blood tests - just enter the foods you have eaten on that day and it does a breakdown of the macro and micronutrients, calories etc.

dexter8479 profile image
dexter8479 in reply to Barny12

Thank you very much for that App advice. It’s terrific, and I’d never heard of it. Really grateful for your post.

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to Barny12

That app is invaluable for me. Amazing how hard it can be to reach targets even when you think you've been eating loads of something it can easily fall short. I realised I don't get enough iron any day even when I was having eggs for breakfast and meat for dinner I still wasn't reaching my goal. Real eye opener.

dexter8479 profile image
dexter8479 in reply to Hidden

This is very interesting. On Barny12’s recommendation I downloaded the Cronometer App, and mapped all my food today. Based on the obvious fruits and veg, included in my meals I had cherries, beetroot, lettuce, sweet potato, tinned tomatoes and a fruit salad with satsuma, melon, apple, mango, and coconut water, and a blueberry yogurt. I thought this is would be ample, but my Vitamin C level only reached 90% of my daily requirement. So I wonder if my diet runs at a constant deficiency of Vit C? Time for an experiment!

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Hidden in reply to dexter8479

That’s strange. This article attached claims that one red bell pepper has twice the required daily amount of Vit C.

self.com/gallery/10-foods-t...

dexter8479 profile image
dexter8479 in reply to Hidden

Yes, that’s true. It’s now clear to me that it’s all about the types of fruit/veg you’re choosing. Oranges, for example, have 50-70mg, a red pepper 130mg. Recommended daily intake is 65-90mg daily, not exceeding 2000mg. I was thinking that I ate quite of lot of fruit daily, certainly compared to some people, and would be getting all I need from food. I need to think of adding some higher value stuff, not just relying on quantity. If it has any effect on my AFib, it’s certainly worth a try, even to thinking of supplementing. However, a red pepper a day will not be on my agenda!

Barny12 profile image
Barny12 in reply to dexter8479

It's a great app, isn't it. Very handy for keeping an eye on potassium/magnesium levels, too.

dexter8479 profile image
dexter8479 in reply to Barny12

Yes, many thanks again. Completely agree. I had a bout of gastroenteritis a while back, I was so depleted of potassium that I went into AFib, ended up in hospital on a drip to replenish. I’m now careful to take some potassium-rich stuff, eg coconut water, but the app now means I can monitor it daily, and know where I stand. Game-changer. 👍👍👍

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Hidden in reply to Hidden

It depends what you mean "need" only a small amount is needed to stave off scurvy and the RDA is based on that. Just enough to stop you getting actually scurvy. If you actually want to give your body all of what it can use rather than the minimum then that's gonna be more or less depending on how much your body is using. Individuals will differ and a stressful day can up your need for that day. I try to get 1000mg from food but that's nearly impossible. And I eat a lot of fruit and veg usually... A glass of oj has about 100 mg so I'd need to eat ten glasses of oj...to get 1000 mg. That's why the nine fruit and veg portions is important but I find that difficult. I can take about 2000 mg but more than that I will have a reaction. Building up slowly is good too as your body will use and absorb more if it has a consistent supply. If you just occasionally bomb a dose in it can just go straight through you. I don't know but my family growing up didn't have much vitamin c ...orange juice was not an every day thing...nor raw veg or fresh fruit. So a lot of people I'd say barely get the RDA let alone an ample amount.

I just came here to post this video myself but you beat me to it..

When i was first diagnosed with Dilated Cardiomyopathy back in around 2002 Sanjay was my Cardiologist, he was a registrar at Wythenshawe Hospital in Manchester at the time. I also did a clinical trial under him. He is the most genuine, caring, empathetic human being I have ever met, he is totally dedicated to his job and his patients and I trust him implicitly.

The wonderful thing here is Vit C is harmless within reason and it certainly won't hurt to give it a go.

Gladstone001 profile image
Gladstone001 in reply to xr1450

Vit C like any supplement may be harmful in large doses. See other posts in this chain about serum ferritin blood levels.

xr1450 profile image
xr1450 in reply to Gladstone001

Yeah, I'll just repeat what I said..."Vit C is harmless WITHIN REASON"

and 100mg (1 Gram) per day is safe as houses. Vit C can enhance iron absorption, so the clue is reduce your iron intake and or keep n eye on it. I know I would rather do that than forgo a possible treatment for the monster that is AF..

After reading Linus Pauling's books in the '80's, I've been taking 2-5 grams Vitamin C per day for at least 25+ years; sometimes up to 8 grams/day if I am feeling very under the weather. I have not suffered any identifiable side effects.My ferritin level has been mostly within normal limits, especially since I began giving blood again three years ago. There may be something to the ancient multi-cultural folk medicine remedy of bloodletting. Too much iron causes widespread oxidative stress throughout the body, and there are very few ways to get rid of excess iron besides phlebotomy.

Thank you for posting this Barny.

After a blood test a month or so ago, I was told that my serum ferritin levels were a bit high. Searching online why this could be I discovered that taking vitamin C could be the cause. I was taking a slow release daily dose of 1000mg. I stopped taking it right away and am now confused as to what the right thing to do would be. Perhaps I should take half a tablet? I must admit I've been more aware of my heart bumping around recently, not that it's been a problem, but I'd rather not be aware of the beat.

Jean

I take 1000mg Vit C per day during the winter flu/colds season. I had a serum ferritin blood test (for other reasons - nosebleeds, which is another story...) and was also found to be very high, way outside limits. I also stopped Vit C straight away and have not yet had another blood test. Still havent decided what I do about Vit C in the future...regards

I had a serious nosebleed last year, it poured with blood for hours and wouldn't stop. Paramedics were called and they couldn't stop it and I ended up being taken to A&E,. Cauterisation wouldn't stem the flow and I had to have a bung thing up my nose and being admitted to hospital for two days. Tell me about the connection with vitamn C please?

Jean

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Hidden in reply to Gladstone001

This is useful for me as I have low iron and can't stomach the iron tablets at all. ... So I just got some 1000 mg vitamin c and hope it helps in the way it didn't help yourself. I can only eat so much black pudding and meat and things with iron in and even when I do eat meat my chronometer says I haven't readied my goal! Ever. Not one day except when I eat black pudding or liver... And I just can't eat that much of those things!! Thanks for sharing!

Interesting Jean & Gladstone. This is where I think we cannot rely upon generalised studies which use herd statistics and that everyone has individual needs so until we have personalised medicine I think we are shooting in the dark.

I have the opposite problem and ferritin always on the low side of the normal range.

Do you take vitamin C?

I do, 1000mg of slow release daily, upping to 2000mg if I feel I have a virus lurking.

My situation though is slightly different as that’s not what makes me prone to anaemia, the meds I am on tend to destroy hemoglobin so I always have a lower than normal count, despite ferritin being normal.

Camelia23 profile image
Camelia23 in reply to CDreamer

Do ferritin levels come up in annual blood test I have for meds related to af or is it a separate one?

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to Camelia23

I have ferritin tested. I think it’s dependant upon your GP.

Camelia23 profile image
Camelia23 in reply to CDreamer

Thank you. I will ask when they're not so busy!

I've read that vitamin C helps with arrhythmia. But some have to be careful about taking too much.

Thanks for that Barny. I wonder how much Vit C is considered best? 500mgs twice a day seems very little.....

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to RajaRua

Taking enough is enough... Taking more isn't nessiarily better... 1 mg is reasonably low but its over the RDA which I can't remember not but the RDA is v low. And it depends...because you use more vitamin c when you're stressed etc..so everyone is different... But its a reasonable amount. Taking vast quantities isn't going to give you extra goodness.... You need what you need and beyond that you can't use it. Your body just pisses a lot away.

RajaRua profile image
RajaRua in reply to Hidden

Thanks gona make it! Do you mean 1000mgs in your reply to me? You put 1mg.....

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Hidden in reply to RajaRua

Oops sorry meant 1 gram ...my brain always gets confused with milligrams micrograms grams kilograms iu etc... Just sent the last while decoding the vitamin d my mom was taking she was taking 10,000 iu!! Which is really high she only meant to be taking 1000 and then her doctor gave her something which is 1000 iu but has .25 weird u g which is micrograms...so confusing especially for elderly like my mom Christ!! I wish they would just use a standard and stick to it for ease of figuring things out. Anyway rant over lol!

RajaRua profile image
RajaRua in reply to Hidden

with Vit D I hear that 3000iu is best per day

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to RajaRua

It depends ...if you're not taking vitamin k as well or eating a load of natto to get it from your diet that amount could cause calcium to leech out of your bones... I was taking about that and I think it didn't help my situation with the low magnesium...and hypercalcemia and low magnesium together can cause issues...so I've stopped taking mine until I can get a vitamin k...I ordered it ages ago and its still not arrived...I bought natto too but its very difficult to eat much of it. But it is true that its better to get it daily than to take a high dose every month.

RajaRua profile image
RajaRua in reply to Hidden

I haven't heard about cqalcium leaching from the bones if you take Vit D without Vit K. Is it K2 or K3? Also haven't heard of Natto..What's that? Thank you for great info. Wer'e all Gonnamakit! 😛

FancyPants54 profile image
FancyPants54 in reply to RajaRua

Natto is a fermented food, can't remember what it's made from. Some sort of Japanese bean I think. My husband has made it in the past.

It is important to take vitamin K2 with D3. If you want to know more hop over to the thyroid patients board on Health Unlocked and search on it. We hypos have to supplements D3 most of the time and so the K2 element is often discussed.

RajaRua profile image
RajaRua in reply to FancyPants54

Thank you Fancy Pants!! Great name!

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to FancyPants54

Yes its the soy bean ..you can sue other beans with the bacteria...baccilus subtalis... Its the highest source of food k2 ....!

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to RajaRua

Yeah I didn't really click it till last week. My aunt has osteoporosis so I knew high vitamin d levels could cause that and that vitamin k helped keep calcium in the bones but I had been taking about 3000 iu for a while and I didn't make the connection between it coming out of bones and therefore raising it in the blood and tissues...so I just copped that last week and I mean I'm just theorizing here because I can't afford 400$ for the magnesium tests but if I do have low mag I know calcium has given me terrible muscle spasms when i took it and heart being a muscle and all.. I was also having twitches in my chest ribs torso when I was having the worst heart flutters so maybe I caused it to myself by overdosing on the vitamin d and not taking magnesium along with it and imbalanced my cal mag. Its a lot of guessing and patching things together trying to make sense of it...but sp far so good since taking the magnesium everything has settled down. So maybe I don't need to test ...I certianly can't afford it tbh.

FancyPants54 profile image
FancyPants54 in reply to Hidden

Magnesium tests aren't that reliable and we are mostly running on empty for it these days as ground is short of it so we don't get it from vegetables enough. Just supplement it. It can make a positive difference to the heart.

Hidden profile image
Hidden in reply to FancyPants54

Absolutely. It stopped my fluttering within hours of taking four tabs and since then I've kept taking it ..a few days after I started I stopped and the flutter returned so I said jaysus just don't stop. And the reliable test you have to get done by private nutritionists who want a lotta money. I'm delighted with what it has done for me so far. My brain fog and memory are even better...I mean better than before not tip top. But I'll need to do a lot more changes to really look after myself. Having more fun and less worry has been huge as well. Just realising I can't do everything for everybody all the time and that that's OK. It sucks. And its sad but its also OK. Thanks!! Fancy!! Super fancy!!🦄!

Thank you for posting Dr Gupta’s video on Vitamin C and AF.He beautifully sumerises the trials on Vitamin C and AF.As he indicated,more controlled trials should be done on Vitamin C and AF.The lack of funding for trials with Vitamin C is the major obstacle.As is well recognised Vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin,and you get rid of vitamin C in your urine.It could be useful to observe if by adding a vitamin C supplement to your diet,if you notice any effects on your AF. I do appreciate that you can get enough Vitamin C from your diet,as I am sure all the patients in the trials did,but the supplementation of Vitamin C did appear to reduce AF. Vitamin C is generally a safe supplement to take,and is excreted unchanged in the urine.Perhaps,even eating a few oranges a day may help.It would be useful to hear the effects of vitamin C supplements or a few oranges on AF from the group over the next month,if you are prepared to try.This is not a controlled trial,but the observations positive,neutral or negative would be most helpful.Perhaps if you are unsure whether to participate,you should ask your doctor.

Thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff.

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