A fib and stomach gurgles

[Janau]

Hi. My husband has paroxysmal a fib. On digoxin rivaoxaban and perindropil. I have noticed a lot of the time especially late evening his stomach sounds like an emptying sink! Has anyone else found this and why?. I take a probiotic once a day does anyone know if this would help him and be ok to take alongside his medications? His a fib dosent affect him thankfully we only know he has an episode by using the kardia mobile. Hes given up alchohol and gone go decaf tea. One cup of coffee in the evening. Fit and healthy otherwise. Hasnt had contact with cardiologist for months due to covid. Had another 48 hour test in august hasnt heard anything from them. Thanks

[Hidden]

Hiya Janau,Quite some months after I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF I found food tended to trigger an AF event, frequently !

I had a range of odd symptoms at the time ( well over 9 years ago now), massive, massive and painful bloating, intestinal gurgling, burping and diarrhea. Went to my GP who carried out blood tests for IBS and Coeliac Disease - all clear. I then consulted a Nutritionist who put me on a course of Probiotics, and then recommended a diet plan ...... gluten free, wheat free ... and it all expanded from there .... oats free, yoghurt free, no soft cheeses but hard cheeses are Ok and so on and so on ! Its a minefield ! However, along with medication for blood pressure and heart rate control this has whipped my AF although, a bit like your husband I can be asymptomatic. I have had a few isolated events over the years but the last aggressive bout was in February 2018, prior to that April 2015. ( I was diagnosed in Jan 2010).

So, like your husband, life jogs along, and so long as I don't do anything stupid with food I stay OK and am still working. Any form of drink doesn't affect me.

The very worst was the bloating I just described ... that alone would be enough to trip me into AF. My gut would visibly inflate as if I was on an airline at a garage pumping up my car tyres.

The common denominator is the vagal nerve - very briefly put - a nerve in the central nervous system which acts like an information superhighway between the brain and any number of organs BUT particularly the heart and digestive system. so I worked on the basis of calm the vagal nerve, calm the heart and I still take probiotics for short periods of time if I am stupid with food or accidently eat food which has an unexpected reaction on my gut.

There are many others on this forum who are much better informed about all this than me and I hope they see your post and are able to contribute a reply with their take on things.

John

[Janau in reply to Hidden]

Hi JohnThanks such for your lovely reply. Yes I'm sure certain foods set him off too. Seems to be cheese and any oils I have found. But it is hit and miss. Sometimes it does sometimes it dosent. He dosent get the bloat but the stomach noises are crazy! That's why I take probiotics too. If I eat bread I look like I'm expecting twins! I assume they are ok to take with his other tablets. Keep well 😊

[secondtry]

Pretty sure it is digestion related. First try reducing gluten by 80% and less food in the evening. I am afraid the route to success is probably trial and error.

[Janau in reply to secondtry]

Hi! Yes you're right it is trial and error. I think I've found a trigger for him and then it proves me wrong! Thanks for your reply 😊

[Desanthony]

I would try decaff coffee too - though it doesn't seem that he has a problem with coffee. One of the peoople I met at my local AF group had an episode on a Friday just after he treated himself to his one and only coffee a cappuccino at breaktime. Because we like strong coffee with a good taste we go for a more costly one - Kenco we find tastes best but like you we only drink one or two a day and if we use the espresso machine we use lavazza decaff I was already using decaff drinks well before AF due to bladder problems so wouldn't think it was a trigger. I can't tell you whether or not AF causes the stomach problems or the other way around as it seems a lot of the time stomach or bowel can seem to bring on an AF event. I was told under the direction of a dietician and gastroenterologist to use a probiotic for a short period of time to see if it could point the way to solving a problem I had - it didn't but that does mean that you can take a probiotic with an anticoagulant and bisoprolol. Best thing is to ask your pharmacist they are the far better with things like this than GPs

[Janau in reply to Desanthony]

Hi! Thank you for the reply. Yes I'm not sure of the decaf link either but hes a right teapot all day so I switched just in case. We use Lavazza too. The pods. I will try him on decaff too. Thank you! 😊

[Desanthony in reply to Janau]

The only trigger I have found is exerting myself - when I first went into AF we were packing up our house and I thought I was twenty years younger and started taking out the old utility room and that's when I went into AF. 11 months after my first successful cardioversion I was moving a box of books - I asked my wife to help but she had flip flops on so said just a minute till I get shoes on - well did I wait no picked it up and back in AF. You can't teach a grumpy old man how old he is. I saw a joke on fb a few months ago saying that most accidents happen to old men doing things that only younger men should do!

[Janau in reply to Desanthony]

Yes I'm always nagging him about the same sort of thing 😆

[CDreamer]

I don’t think taking probiotics do much. Prebiotics and taking enzymes have been shown to be more effective. I personally prefer kefir but I make my own water kefir as I am sensitive to dairy but without knowing exactly what is causing the noises (which may not be all bad!) it is difficult to say.

Good gut health comes from eating well and good nutrition, which maybe very personal so best advised by a nutritionist, as John suggests. Nutrition and food as medicine is now being much more mainstream but today’s doctors had very little training. Tomorrow’s doctors will know a lot more.

Cytoplan have excellent research and I really like their products. I take my water kefir everyday, eat plenty of vegetables as brassicas, especially broccoli sprouts, are stuffed with excellent nutrients and the biggest of all - AVOID SUGAR of any sort including that in cereals, cakes, biscuits but also drinks, sweets etc and any processed foods.

Sugar, more than any other food will cause inflammation.

[Janau in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you! Interesting. A lot of old style doctors just look at one thing dont they, dont look at the body as a "whole". Yes I've upped his greens a lot 😊

[RoyMacDonald in reply to CDreamer]

Prokey make a water Kefir drink if you get bored of making it yourself. Kudos for making it yourself though. 👍

[CDreamer in reply to RoyMacDonald]

It’s so easy to do yourself & costs nothing but 10 mis of your time once or twice a week. I add lemon & ginger to 2nd fermentation.

[Ecki in reply to CDreamer]

Hi CDreamer, how do you make water kefir? I don't drink milk so can't have normal kefir, thanks.

[CDreamer in reply to Ecki]

I’ve sent you a PM.

[CDreamer]

blog.cytoplan.co.uk/gut-flo... - specifically the bit that asks Do probiotics help?

[Spinners]

Hello JanauI took digoxin when my AF first became permanent, and had such a lot of discomfort in my intestines that the doctor sent me for bowel cancer tests. They were negative, fortunately, and I stopped the dioxin and haven't taken it since. All the digestive problems stopped.

But everyone reacts differently to different medicines. I think prebiotic are fine with the medication. I have taken them for years with all the different medications I have taken. If not sure, ask your doctor or pharmacy.

Best wishes

Louise

[Janau in reply to Spinners]

Hi Louise. Thank you! Yes that's the trouble isnt it. Pills always have some side effects. Thankfully we know his bowels are ok as he had a Ct scan back last year as they found a small cyst on his lung when they routinely x rated his chest. Thankfully it was nothing. He says his toilet habits are not as regular as they were before digoxin seems to go more so I reckon you are right. Thanks! 😊

[Kevwray]

So .... my cardiologist looks at me like i have 2 heads when discussing this after 2 ablations & still having issues..... but vagally mediated AFib is very real & there is a direct link between heart & gut.I noticed that after 7 weeks working from home I was not experiencing any issues & this was down to a change in diet with gluten removal the key.

I also noted that my afib always occurs in the evening & approx 1 hr after eating - this is a direct corrolation & when afib is brewing I get the tell tale 'slow gut' syndrome.

This may also sound crazy - but get your husband to track his Afib & gut issues because mine relate directly to the moon cycles. I know what you are thinking but its absolutely aligned to the full moon & dark moon phases & there is a lot of research on line that supports this.

My own take is that for me a 3rd ablation will not help as the denervation of nerve plexi in the heart does not resolve the fundmental issue that my vagal function is defective & this alone is the root to improving but not curing my condition.

[Janau in reply to Kevwray]

Hi! Very interesting thanks! Ah you're talking to the right person here I grew up in the 70s and am a hippy at heart so I totally agree with the moon connection 😊 We had a dog with severe epilepsy and she always had an episode every full moon. Will google that many thanks x

[CDreamer]

You are the only other person I know who mentioned moon cycle - my AF was always worse at full moon & sleep markedly declines 3 days prior to full moon whereas best sleep is 2nd quarter.

I posted once about this & only got werewolf analogies but one evening my husband had to call paramedics & they were saying just how busy they were & commented that it was full moon which always meant they were extra busy.

I had ANS dysfunction with hyper mobility, low BP & PoTS. I take an acetylcholine eterase drug Pyridostigmine for autoimmune condition which was exacerbated as a result of taking heart drugs & ablation. The PoTS, low BP & tachycardia all stabilized after taking this drug - has other down sides but at least no more syncope. The AF persisted though but pacemaker seems to have been the answer for me & final piece in the jigsaw.

[Janau in reply to CDreamer]

Hi! How long did you have to wait until you got a pacemaker fitted? Last time hubby saw his consultant was last December and he said he would probably end up with a pacemaker. His heart rate can be very Erratic. In a fib it can go up to about 150. Most days resting it is as low as 53. One extreme to the other. Thankfully none of it seems to affect him. I can tell know if he is about to go into a fib as he is up in the night every hour and a half for a wee. X