2 months ago I got diagnosed via the Holter Monitor with HEART FLUTTERS ontop of my AFIB. Frankly I feel lousy and being new to the whole thing I really can't tell which is causing what. Is it the Bisoprolol the Apixaban, the Afib or the Flutters.
I have watched video after video to get a better understanding but it is all starting to become a big blurr. I have read posts and articles. I have a basic idea as to what this whole affair means as to how one feels, but the doctor(s) sure seem to cloud things further.
My cardiologist said Flutters are quite rare. They are?? Not according to what I read on here.
So I ask you kind people, HOW DO YOU DEAL with flutters and the combo of having AFIB as well? Are there many here with Flutters?
Do you take any meds for the Flutters? Any medical intervention you tried?
I developed AFib and then AFlutter - many people find it is the other way around. AFlutter made me feel a lot, lot worse than AFib and that is because your heart beats much, much faster with AFlutter and like any muscle, it makes you very tired. With AFib (left atria) the rhythm is irregular and if fast, not all of the signals are passed through to the ventricles so you can have people in AFib with a HR under 100. Not so in AFlutter as there is a formula as how it is converted into heart beat (can’t remember it offhand) and the result is your right atria beats at something like 250-400 beats a minute so no wonder you get tired and chest pain from angina more common in people with frequent AFl, which is results in a regular pulse so for some people it is difficult to distinguish between AFlutter (saw tooth pattern on an ECG) and Tachycardia or AFib with Rapid Ventricular Response. They all make you feel rough - but I found AFlutter was exceptional!
The good news is that it is usually much easier to treat with ablation - treatment is similar to AFib - drugs (to control fast heart rate first), cardioversion and then ablation - with AFlutter - the sooner the better if episodes are frequent.
The sooner that you have treatment which will ensure AFlutter doesn’t return, the better and I think ablation is probably the best option if drugs are not controlling episodes.
It’s only when you are not in AFib/AFlutter that you can tell what causes what symptoms - Bisoprolol does make some people feel rotten anyway but after I stopped Biso - I still felt rotten because I was having ever more frequent episodes. I awoke after 1st ablation feeling so different and it soon became obvious to me that at that stage, it had been the AFib/AFlutter which made me feel so rotten.
Very, very unlikely to be Apixaban.
Hope that helps - my sympathies it is SUCH a miserable way to feel.
CDreamer, thank you so much for a good explaination and advice. I got Afib first and Flutter second like you. It sure is terrible. Trying to work my way around the kitchen and it's torture.
The ablation scares me as a friend had non stop bleeding from the cut. I've had all sorts of procedures over the years but the use of that catheder to thread the wire gives me the creeps.
Frankly the whole idea of an ablation gives me the creeps but I’ve had one and it was worth ‘feeling the fear and doing it anyway’. I had AF first, then flutter added - actually I didn’t know I had flutter until I got the ablation report and found I’d had an ablation for it! As well as AF.
Thank you for your contribution. Reading everyone's experiences it seems that it is not cut and dry but sprinkled with lots of disappointments and fails in order to hopefully eventually get to success.
This is a very interesting post - how many ablations have you had please and were they successful? I have had persistent flutter since July. I’m on Bisoprolol and Riveroxoban.
I had 2 - 1st made things worse, 2nd 3 months later left me AF free for 3 years. It returned but wasn’t as severe for another 2 years ie: very occasional, not very symptomatic. It got a lot worse then & I had Pacemaker implant - 2 mild episodes since then - Oct 2018. I was unable to take any drugs to mitigate episodes after 2014.
Bad luck, you, eh? Life can be a real trial. I had atrial flutter last year until my ablation for it in June, after which I had a single bad attack of fibrillation. While I had the flutter, I was very pretty much incapacitated by it.
My cardiologist told me that flutter is the worst arrhythmia of the two in terms of symptoms and coping with it, and that it is by far the most difficult to control with drugs. I was told that it isn't as common as fibrillation but was the better one to have since it can nearly always be cured by catheter ablation. The only drug that helped me until I had the ablation was digoxin, taken on top of bisoprolol (various doses dropping from 10mg down to 1.75mg). It didn't stop the flutter, but it did slow the tachycardia. If I hadn't had the ablation, I was being considered for amiodarone, which does, apparently, help stop flutter, but at the cost of side effects and potential toxicity.
Flutter was actually induced by being taken off bisoprolol ( rate control ) when I was put on flecanide for rythym control.
Flutter forms a racing circuit in the top right of your heart, and is regular and fast ,whereas Fib can spark off randomly in the top left of your heart ,and also from the four pulmonary veins in there .Often fast but highly irregular. Mine isn't usually fast though !
So I take flec to keep fib settled and bisoprolol to keep rate settled.
Every now and then I have to take extra of either depending on which one if I get breakthrough episodes ,them back to maintainance daily dose.
For example recently I had to increase bisoprolol,but will be dropping back to my normal dose ,slowly ,beginning tomorrow.
I cannot tolerate more than 1.25 mg a day of it.
I am on waiting list for double ablation . The flutter is much better treated by ablation,with 95% success rate .
Fib also has decent success rates ranging from 70-85% I'm told. Fib can be treated by drugs such as Flec for considerable time ( years for many people)
Of course all drugs have effects which we don't want fir many people ,and another benefit of ablation is that the idea is to get off these ,except for anti coagulation for most people.
In terms of practical things I've learned to avoid stress as a major trigger for me. If unavoidable I try to robustly reduce impact with various relaxation techniques.
Many people, including me,look at lifestyle with good results.
Keep notes if you can ,which help both track what's going on for you and any health professionals .
My electrophysiologist (EP) did my ablation for AFlutter which is normally the right atria and Afib which is normally the left atria in one ablation. That was almost 3 years ago and I have been symptom free and drug free since. If your quality of life is unacceptable, I would look for the best EP and get his or her advice. Good luck
My EP , who is very experienced with ablations, goes thru the groin which I think is more common. I requested and was put to sleep prior to going into surgery. The surgery took a few hours I believe. I went to sleep and woke up in recovery. There is some groin pain afterwards but it is not significant. Bleeding and clots were not an issue. There was also some chest pain. The worst part was just staying overnight in the hospital.
It depends on what your quality of life is like now. Mine was not good and getting worse. I would have had the ablation much sooner if I had known how good the results would be. Everyone is different. Every EP is different. My life has been good for the last 3 years with no symptoms. Since I have no symptoms, my cardiologist took me off of all drugs. If the Afib/Aflutter come back, I will have another ablation. Good luck to you
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