Have I cured myself if AFib?

[Goose33483]

I’m a 69 year old female. Two years ago I was diagnosed with AFib. It came and went and I took Eliquise and Flicanade. I hate the medication. I took myself off of it last November. Six months no problems. Has anyone heard of just getting better? I take a baby aspirin every day.

[Paulbounce]

"I took myself off of it last November"

And

"Has anyone heard of just getting better"

Goose - don't just take yourself off these med's without talking to your doctor - it's a bad idea. You are more at risk of stroke and other complications. You don't just 'get better' with afib. It can come and go without rhyme or reason and a baby aspirin won't help.

I don't like taking med's either - however it's a better alternative to a stroke or heart failure.

Speak to your doctor.

Paul

[Goose33483 in reply to Paulbounce]

Thank you Paul. I did tell my doctor. He didn’t say it was a good idea but honestly didn’t say it would put me at more risk. Even though I’ve heard repeatedly quitting is not an option. I plan on going back on the medication. Thank you for your kind input. Be safe.

[Paulbounce in reply to Goose33483]

Hi Goose. I'll just add one more thing - GP's do an amazing job but aren't always as 'in the know' about afib as your cardiologist will be (fair enough - GP's can't be expected to be experts about every condition). I'll bet your cardio put you on the med's as opposed to your GP. I suggest trying to contact him / her to double check what you are doing is the right thing to do. I think you need to check for example that just stopping, and then starting flec at the same dose is the right thing to do for you. I don't know - I'm not a medic. For me Flec was started at 100mg a day then increased to 200mg a day to give my body time to adjust.

Play safe and either double check with your doctor (at least) or try and make contact with your cardio.

Keep well and I hope you enjoy your bank holiday Monday.

Paul

[6TIMES]

There's no cure only living with it the best way you can with the prescribed meds that work the best for you,

[jeanjeannie50]

I've taken myself off of some of my AF pills in the past and been fine for many months, probably 7 to 8 months may have been the longest, but never ever would I stop taking my anticoagulant. Having worked at a nursing home, a stroke is the thing I dread most of all. Some patients would sit, unable to speak, eat or move and were fed by a tube though their stomachs. It was like a living death and there's no way I'd risk ending up like that. My AF always did come back too and then the AF nurses would tell me off.

Please continue with your anticoagulant. I told an old work colleague who was early 60's that he should be taking an anticoagulant and not a baby aspirin, he answered politely that he would go with the doctors advice (who could blame him). Well, he had a massive brain haemorrhage, needed an urgent operation , ended up in a wheelchair and will never be his normal self again,

My younger sister had a few years of bouts of PAF in her early 40's and it disappeared. Did return briefly about 5 years ago after a lung operation and when in hospital, but she's not had it since and is now aged 60.

Jean

[Melchet in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Hi Jean,

Perhaps I misunderstood what you said about your old work colleague? A NOAC such as Apixiban/Eliquis is a double-edged sword which would have made his haemorrhagic stroke even more likely. However, it would have protected him from TIAs and ischemic strokes which occur in ~90% of all cases due to blockage.

My mother-in-law was put on Apixiban at age 88 following a heart valve replacement and suffered a haemorrhagic stroke some 6 weeks later. Brain vessel weakness due to vascular dementia was said to be a contributory factor.

[Buffafly in reply to Melchet]

Aspirin - which has a cumulative effect - is far more dangerous in respect of all types of haemorrhage than a DOAC at the correct dose but if you are susceptible to a brain haemorrhage then the difference may be between 'big' and 'massive'?

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Melchet]

We all have different stories and theories to tell and who knows which ones are right. Not me, I'm no medical expert!

I can understand how you feel about Apixiban after your mother-in-law suffered a stroke shortly after starting to take it and certainly value and take note of any information, such as yours, that is shared on this forum. I take Warfarin and have done so for many years.

Jean

[Melchet in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Hello Jean,

The point I was trying to make is that NOACS reduce the risk of an ischaemic stroke but they make a haemorrhagic stroke or a bleed elsewhere more likely.

I don’t know whether Buffafly is medicalLy qualified, but from what I’ve read, it is debatable whether a daily 75mg dose of Aspirin dissolved in water and taken with food is ‘far more dangerous’ than a DOAC.

Having said that, I switched from Aspirin to Apixiban in preparation for a cryoablation in Aug 2018. Despite a cardiac registrar suggesting I should stop Apixiban, I successfully argued to continue taking it!

Thankfully the NHS removes the financial burden faced by others on this forum, who are aware that 1 week‘s supply of NOACS costs more than 50x that of Aspirin.

Keep well!

[Alessa69 in reply to Melchet]

I would always prefer to take medical advise re anti- coagulation therapy from my Cardiologist . People may be well meaning, but advice can cause mixed messages , ergo can do harm

[Buffafly in reply to Melchet]

I take your point about the medical qualifications though you don't need qualifications to understand what doctors have said. The effect of aspirin lasts in the body for up to two weeks (info from my dentist) so should you have a bleed for any reason the effect remains strong whereas a DOAC wears off over the day and wears off completely in a few days. Aspirin actually prevents clotting whereas DOACs slow it down. Aspirin has a tendency to cause stomach ulcers and it is a systemic effect as much as irritation locally. There is a lot more to it but if interested the Mayo Clinic is a good source of information.

[Melchet in reply to Buffafly]

Thanks for your further explanation regarding Aspirin. This interminable lockdown period will perhaps encourage me to do some browsing on the Mayo Clinic!

My post was intended to remind folk that ischemic and hemorrhagic strokes require very different treatment. I'm not a fan of verbal inexactitudes and too many posts on this forum advise AF sufferers to take anticoagulants "to avoid a stroke". The catch-all word 'stroke' should be used with caution.

I would commend another member of this forum who has found it necessary to wage war against misleading 'blood-thinner' terminology.

Keep well!

[Julia7 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Hi Jean,

You’ve given me sensible advice and reassurance before. I’m 45, fit and healthy and have had two episodes of Afib in a year after too much caffeine. I’m on 2.5mg of Bis but not a blood thinner as the nurse says I don’t need one. I’m worried now you’ve said about stroke victims....should I be on a thinner? Did your sister take them? Your sisters Afib situation sounds a bit like mine.

Julia

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Julia7]

Hi Julia

I think anticoagulants only become absolutely necessary as we grow older. From something like age 60 onward, but of course people of any age can suffer a stroke, though they're considered to be less likely the younger you are. No, my sister didn't take any pills whatsoever for her AF, but her attacks were quite short, I would guess under an hour in duration.

AF usually comes on gradually, like one attack a year then gradually builds up to more and more. At one time mine came regularly every 4-6 weeks. Changing my diet was the best think I ever did and I know that artificial additives were a sure trigger.

Jean

[fallingtopieces]

You say you were diagnosed with AF, does that mean you were having it regularly? Did you know you were having it?

I had one 90 minute episode of AF almost 8 years ago and none since. 🤞🏻 Only very short svt runs on occasion and a few odd ectopics.

I do take magnesium though, which I credit with keeping it at bay.

Pat

[Elaine1951 in reply to fallingtopieces]

Me too Pat. I take magnesium and Hawthorne like clockwork. No other meds. I credit magnesium for the AF vanishing but recognise that the body is v complex and I’m very wary to any heart bump. I also think thyroid has big part to play too

[Hidden]

Just to echo what others have said, please dont risk coming off your anticoagulant at least until you speak to your consultant, anticoagulants reduce stroke risk massively, over 70 % risk reduction in many studies. Aspirin is pretty useless maybe about a quarter of that at most. Dont take unnecessary risks, yoo can have AF and not be aware, during sleep for example. Stay on it until you know its safe not to.

Andy

[Barb1]

Please, please go on an anti coagulant.

[jerseygirl49]

Just repeating what the others on this forum have said, please take your anti-coagulant. My mum suffered a massive stroke and then had to live in hell for 5 and a half years. Please, please don't risk it. Stay safe and wishing you well.

[secondtry]

Life is a grey area! The problem for me with this age old argument over taking meds or not is 1) no definitive stats on the risk e.g re anti-coags x5 more likely to have a stroke ( serious or mild) is one quote but if that results in 1 in 1000 I am happy without 2) No stats I have seen on how many have a stroke or serious bleed or other complication whilst on anti-coags 2) Stroke stats don't differentiate between those with Lone PAF no comorbidities, improved lifestyle & taking supplements and others - those figures would be more helpful 3) some cardiologists don't openly acknowledge there are triggers, the role of the Vagus Nerve or recognised beneficial supplements - their role is to be knowledgeable on drugs from information supplied by Big Pharma - quite a narrow focus given the holistic nature of AF. 4) I consulted a Naturopath who treats all his AF patients just with a Magnesium compound and Co Q10 supplements, so I am on that as well 5) Flecainide can evidently cause flutter/other complications

So in summary, I am not suggesting you come off your meds (indeed I am myself still on Flecainide after 6 years) but I suggest you take an overview of your personal whole situation before taking the decision.

My personal approach has been: turned down two offers of an ablation, used Flecainide to buy me time to change lifestyle and learn/take other beneficial action, on CHADS score 1 I have postponed anticoags until I review at age 67.

Parting shot: currently with the Virus I am making no changes in case I add to the NHS burden. Good luck!

[Auriculaire]

I have gone more than 18 months between afib attacks that I know about. I have had 2 that have started when I was asleep and for all I know others that have started and ended whilst asleep that I am unaware of. I had a TIA six months after one attack. I do not like taking Apixaban but after the TIA am too scared of having a stroke not to. Your afib could come back at any time. Taking yourself off the meds is highly unlikely to have cured it.

[Buffafly]

I had a holter monitor for a week, was disappointed I didn't have any episodes during the time - result came back as frequent episodes of AF! I hadn't noticed a thing. So I repeat - go back on the anticoagulant 💜

[CDreamer]

Taking a baby aspirin (which is antiplatelet) carries more risk with no protection against AF stroke. All the reading I have done would indicate that you would be safer all round taking Eliquis rather than nothing.

Best wishes CD

[S11m]

My AF was cured mostly by two catheter ablations - but I think that losing 5 stone and avoiding triggers might have helped.

The ECG function on my Apple Watch helps me identify triggers, e.g. shellfish and gluten.

[Goose33483 in reply to S11m]

That’s wonderful. I don’t know why my episodes have gotten better. I got scared by one of my reply’s here and have gone back on the medicine. I hate it. I bruise when I barely do anything. I know red wine and gluten are a trigger. I have a extremely sensitive stomach. I have to watch exactly what i eat and even then it doesn’t matter. Thanks for taking time to share.

[Morzine]

I don’t think six months is very long as this beast goes quiet and comes back , I’m saying this from what I’ve gleaned from this forum.....I’d not stop the elequis, it’s a great little protection and we’re lucky it’s around .....why Stop when it offers so much?....perhaps see the cardio and see what he says,

Sue

[Robinson1]

Hi Goose, I'm a 56 year old female and my AFIB shows it's ugly face every 6 months or so (that I know of). I'm on Flecainide and the blood thinner Xaralto. I don't like taking these meds either, but my cardiologist says they greatly reduce the chance of a stroke. You could be having Afib while you're asleep and/or little runs during the day that you don't even notice. At a minimum please take care of yourself and get back on the Eliquise. Hugs!

[Harrythmia in reply to Robinson1]

Hi Robinson, like you I’m on Flecainide 100mg p/d and was also on Xaralto Rivaroxiban 20mg. But then my GP surgery wrote to me saying that based on latest NICE advice my Rivaroxiban was being automatically switched to one called Edoxaban 60mg. Has this happened to you or anyone else?

Can’t get to the bottom of why my anticoagulant was swapped and why dosage went up from mid range 20mg to max range 60mg?

Any info appreciated

[Nanamac3 in reply to Harrythmia]

Hello

Like you I was switched from Rivaroxaban to Edoxaban, which was explained as a cost saving measure. My dose is also 60 mg. My GP told me that the 60mg of Edoxaban has the same efficacy as 20mg. Rivaroxaban.

I have not noticed any difference.

[Alessa69]

Please, please get medical advice from your Cardiologist !

I am 67, have PAF diagnosed 2 years ago , when I was having EP studies for SVT . I take Xarelto& Flecaineide when needed, but was taken off Aspirin once AF diagnosed . Pretty sure that the CARDIOLOGIST’s don’t like Aspirin in that mix , please don’t take the Stroke Risk by “taking yourself off prescribed meds “ Life is far too precious !!!

[bmand]

We all want to know the answer to that!

[Heart1234Wisconsin]

Aspirin is not a recommended drug any more. Please take an anticoagulant to reduce stroke risk. Pay attention to your electrophysiologist, not a GP, or even a basic cardiologist. Afib is about electrical system. A basic cardiologist is about the pump. An EP asked me if I would call a plumber if I had a broken circuit breaker.. His point was taken.

[MaxfieldP]

Hi Goose.

Yes, I think you may be cured of your AFIB and I believe I am cured of mine. I had paroxistic Afib during 6 years. I have a lot of 30 sec. (more than 500) ECG to prove. I took a lot of drugs: antiarrhythmics, beta-blockers and blood thinner (Xarelto). After a lot of observations and testes I finally discovered: I have a kind of "allergy" for beer. It is not the alcohol. It is a chemical preservative. Some brands are worse, some better. But I quit completely beer and afib is gone. I can have distilled liquors: whiskey, gin, vodka etc. Makes no harm. But a glass of beer triggers afib. Since December 2019 I don't take beta-blocker, blood thinner or antiarrhythmic. and no more beer.

I had a bad experience with beta blockers. The cardiologists I saw didn't help. Beta-blockers transformed one problem into another problem. My afib was transformed into a lot of PVC. Possibly caused by slowing heart beat (bradycardia). Anyway, today I do not have afib anymore. My heart is back to normal. Since I quit blood thinner, I began biking, one hour, everyday. With beta-blocker I couldn't sleep on left side. Today I can, because my heart is normal again. I am 73 and I am back to a life without afib, without beta-blockers and without blood thinner. Good luck and best wishes

[Singwell]

Hello Goose. I agree with all that's said here, especially about requesting an appointment with cardiologist. You can ask for a remote appointment. The critical factor is your BP. Do you know what your readings are typically? Our BP tends to get higher with ageing even in relatively fit people. The combination of higher BP and AF is what puts us in the running for a stroke. That's what the anticoagulants are for. There's a risk factor test that your GP and cardiologist will have used called CHADVAS-2. I'll post the link here. Sad to say you get extra points on this score if you are female and over 65. If that's you then you definitely should stay on the anticoagulants unless medically advised otherwise. Here's the link to do the score

clincalc.com/Cardiology/Str...