SCARY ARTICLE about BETA BLOCKERS

Most of the people here are taking BETA BLOCKERS to slow heart rate.

This article was sent to me from Dr. Mercola's web site.

Please read it to stay informed. Perhaps someone here can explain it in plain language for all of us.

articles.mercola.com/sites/...

[Dawsonmackay]

First of all that article is really dated - 5.5 years old. Second, there are more than 800K people ingesting beta-blockers and I have not had any side effects. If you are going to post such an old article, it would be good to post a new one too.

[doodle68]

Hi Mrhermyl no worries here , I am happy to go on taking my beta-blockers to help to keep my blood pressure and heart rate down.

As far as I can see the article is none specific about actual conditions and seems to be concerned about BBs being prescribed for none cardiac operations ......

Quote ...

{If you DO have a pre-existing, life-threatening condition, beta-blockers appear to be helpful when you go into surgery. But if you DON'T, they appear to harm or even kill you. o, it’s important to realize that various studies address two very different scenarios:

People already taking beta blockers for serious heart conditions

People who are given beta blockers prior to surgery, even though their risk is negligible]

.....I should add the article appears to be from the USA not the UK where things are often done different anyway

[Hidden in reply to doodle68]

You are correct it is American.

[Hidden]

I just read thru it quickly. Sounds like betablockers for us with pre- existing heart issues isnt questioned. Apparently betablockers are used in surgery for nonheart patients. Im always suspect when a controversial doc like him has a book to sell.

[doodle68 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Hoski I always view with a degree of suspicion any article that ends with a statement like ...

''My New Book “EMF*D” Is Now Available for Preorder''

[Hidden in reply to doodle68]

Yes

[Hidden in reply to doodle68]

I agree.

[Auriculaire in reply to Hidden]

I read about this some time ago and recall that this practice was no longer used in Europe. I remember asking my surgeon about it before my colectomy.

[Hidden in reply to Auriculaire]

Thanks for sharing

[CDreamer]

Interesting article, even though dated to which I have the following comments:-

Dr M is a well known rather sensationalistic US doctor who is anti-vaccine, anti big Pharma. Nothing wrong with that but bear in mind that he will trawl for evidence to support his bias.

I think the only relevant para is

It’s really all about weighing the risk/benefit ratio. In order to be of potential benefit, the risks associated with heart disease must outweigh the heavy risk and side effects of the drug itself, which is a very limited target population.

It may be that people with fast AF, HF and/or high BP would better off on Beta-Blockers - but often they are used to reduce symptoms rather than have a therapeutic affect and many people suffer unwanted affects in Beta Blockers so over use may be a problem but I would need to read the original research which this article is based upon to make a considered opinion so my view is that this an alarmist article based upon known personal bias.

That being the case - everyone must take into consideration their own circumstances. Mine are that Beta-Blockers pose a high risk for me so I have a Red Alert on my medical file saying that I should never be given them.

Beta-blockers are not a very effective drug for lowering BP but they used to be also prescribed for panic attacks & high anxiety as they block adrenaline and it was this use that I have always questioned their use as I had encountered many clients in Beta-blockers which had been prescribed by GPs.

I would totally support the questioning of any prescription, know why it was prescribed, the possible side effects & challenge the use if you suffer any uncomfortable affects - but warning - some doctors do not like being challenged & I have several who won’t treat me - not that I would want them to now anyways.

Beware of alarmist articles - especially when the don’t give references to specific studies that you can check.

Best wishes CD

[Hidden]

Thank you CD for putting it in proper perspective. It is an alarmist article and yes one must weight the positives and negatives . Actually I just came back from my doctor and sure enough even though I present my case on typed paper point by point he will glance over things and miss 3/4 of my points and questions. I have to guide him along and press my argument . Sadly because of a family doctor shortage it is not easy to switch as many can't even find a GP that will serve them. MOST doctors don't like to be challenged or informed in any manner.

[beardy_chris in reply to Hidden]

On the whole, it is better NOT to challenge your doctors. They have a lot of training, education and experience. It is better to work with them: query them by all means; ask questions; flatter them (at times) but don't imply you know medicine better than them. You may know yourself better than them but it is unlikely you know the science better than them.

I expect you've seen the quote that goes along the lines of "Your 5 minutes on Google does not equal my medical doctorate and experience". You'll get better results by respecting them.

[Auriculaire in reply to beardy_chris]

Disagree totally. Many doctors do not have a very good training in pharmacology and have very limited knowledge of exactly how the drugs they are dishing out are affecting body systems other than the one they are prescribing it for. They are often woefully uninformed of the latest scientific ( NOTthe same as medical) physiological research and ignore new guidlines on prescribing sticking to what they have been doing for years. Science is not their preserve alone and it is not at all difficult if one is intelligent to inform oneself of the latest research. This is easier if one studied some sort of science at degree level.

[beardy_chris in reply to Auriculaire]

Fine. If you think you can get the best out of them by challenging them and minimising their life's work then carry on. I prefer to work with my medical team. I find they respond better and more helpfully.

[bantam12 in reply to beardy_chris]

Of course we would ideally trust and agree with our medical teams but unfortunately many in the medical profession are woefully out of date. Well informed patients must challenge Drs when things aren't going in the right direction and the majority of Drs respond better to patients who are knowledgeable with their health problems. If I hadn't "challenged" my Drs I would not have got a diagnosis and treatment plan.

[Hidden in reply to bantam12]

I agree.

[CDreamer in reply to bantam12]

Absolutely correct Bantam.

[Auriculaire in reply to beardy_chris]

That was not what I disagreed with. It was your notion that any doctor would necessarily know the science better. When I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism when still living in England I read widely on the thyroid on medical sites and my GP there said I knew more about the thyroid than she did. After being poisoned by Cipro here I took my GP scientific papers about the damage fluoroquinolone antibiotics could wreak ( every floxie wants to stop this happening to others) and he said later that he had changed his attitude to them. Doctors are not omniscient and iatrogenic disease is sadly not diminishing. What doctors are taught in medical school evolves and these days is far too influenced by Pharma. My GP here "jokes" that the best way to stay healthy is to stay away from the doctor!

[CDreamer in reply to beardy_chris]

I work with my doctors & by challenging I mean politely querying & asking what does that do, why is that important, are there alternatives etc etc. I always say that you are the expert on medicine so I want to listen to your advice but I am the expert on me & as it is my body - I reserve the right to have the final say. If they are in the least unhappy with that - then they shouldn’t be practicing IMHO.

Thankfully both my cardiologist & neuro are of the a similar view & ask me what I would like to happen now. Even my GP asked me that this morning when I was querying a persistent cough. We respect each other.

The other problem I’ve encountered- especially with co morbidities is that many drugs are really dangerous for me so I literally do need to know - because my cardiologist doesn’t have the expertise on my neurological condition & I find I have to educate the cardiology on what I have as most of the cardiology staff, paramedics & nurses have never heard of my disease, most have never encountered it and having the combination is not in the text books.

I think there are quite a lot of people like me who need to become experts in their own conditions.

[Hidden in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you.

[Hidden in reply to beardy_chris]

Know your medicine but keep it to yourself or release it gently as doctors keep grudges !

I have always been unconfrontational but with a smile got my point across along with actual gifts.

But, with one doctor It took me one year, lots of pain, risk to my life, and pushed for Xrays to get him to send me to a thoracic specialist to evaluate what turned out to be a rare grapefruit sized tumor next to my heart.

Incredibly even the radiologist missed it on the X rays.

[Ppiman]

I’ve never fully felt that I can trust the claims on the web site you mention. What do you think of it?

This seems to be a far more balanced report on the use of beta-blockers in peri-operative cardiac surgery:

academic.oup.com/eurheartj/...

Also, on Mercola himself, a search will reveal much of interest, e.g.

quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercol...

So, I remain sceptical but interested.

Steve

[Hidden in reply to Ppiman]

You are right. You can't trust anything, unfortunately!

Money is the big factor and the truth is elusive .

[Hidden in reply to Ppiman]

Thank you for these links to the articles. Everyone should read them. I have worked on both sides, Allopathic medicine in pharmaceuticals sales management and in alternative medicine as a graduate of Dominion Herbal (medicine) College. I can tell you there are positives and negatives on both sides. Medicine is a divided industry greatly affected by money and studies that are designed to promote and carry the flag of their team. The general public is in the middle bombarded by information that may be poorly proven or secretively manipulated to suit the objectives.

Money is the major motivator for both teams.

[Jmc43]

Thanks to Ppiman for sharing the links in his post. While we need to be careful about understanding the prescriptions recommended by our physicians, I think you can disregard any claims by Mercola. He is exactly what the second website name suggests, a quack, and a self interested one at that. My favorite claim — very minor compared to some of the serious errors — is that we ought to avoid the electromagnetic fields in things like electric razors. Oh oh...I think I’m finished 😳😅

[Hidden in reply to Jmc43]

The sad thing is the public is easily manipulated and has no one they can really trust.

The government agencies and the studies that are done are all affected by MONEY !

Money clean and dirty has a huge affect on the direction and truth of the facts.

[Hidden in reply to Jmc43]

The sad thing is the public is easily manipulated and has no one they can really trust.

The government agencies and the studies that are done are all affected by MONEY !

Money clean and dirty has a huge affect on the direction and truth of the facts.

[allserene]

My Doctor says ALL drugs are poison, and it's just whether the poison is less dangerous than the problem you are trying to solve.. Bit like marriage really...

[bantam12 in reply to allserene]

That's an odd attitude for a Dr to have 🤔

[allserene in reply to bantam12]

All drugs have bad side effects, so I suppose he was just trying to put that a different way... I am taking Vit D and Magnesium supplements, and zero prescription drugs... and I bet even those supplements have bad but mild side effects ....

[Auriculaire in reply to allserene]

Only if taken to excess whereas you can get all sorts of nasty "side" effects -rhabdomyolosis , Steven -Johnson syndrome , peripheral neuropathy , etc from various prescription drugs.

[allserene in reply to Auriculaire]

But what is to excess ..after all, the 'excess' boundaries are some human's assessment which may be totally overturned 5 years from now.........Then of course there are "silent" side effects which are not noticed, and may, in addition, contribute to 'bad' blood test results etc without us even knowing that....... I prefer to rely on my 3.5 BILLION years of evolution (not like the 8k in Oklahoma lol), and not take anything that isn't a response to a changed environment...eg I live in Wisconsin but I evolved in Africa...therefore Vitamin D for low winter sunlight seem reasonable..

[bantam12 in reply to allserene]

Not all drugs have bad side effects and it's rather dramatic to call all drugs poison, not helpful to people who cannot live without medication. I certainly wouldn't live very long without all my various tablets ! I can't tolerate VitD at any dose, everyone is different.

[allserene in reply to bantam12]

Indeed everyone is different to some degree... Scientific conclusions by professionals are not designed to make people feel good, or be helpful to their sense of everything being all right before and after death... I want the raw truth to the extent that it can be ascertained from time to time. I see too many ambulance chasing lawyers on TV to believe that the drugs people take today, will not be labeled poisons tomorrow.. Look at round up weedkiller which is now the subject of huge law suites when everyone has been using it for many decades......

[bantam12 in reply to allserene]

You are lucky not to need any prescription medication, I wish you continued good health.

[seasider18]

Dr Mercola seems to be anti many things in his articles. Someone on this forums is always quoting his old articles against the Watchman Device when anyone asks about it.

[tunybgur]

Mercola is mainly motivated to sell his books and supplements and to make a profit!

He is broadly against 'big pharma' and their promotion of unnecessary medication, I have some sympathy with him here, but his total dismissal of meds such as statins (which my cardiologist says definitely saves lives) is just wrong.

Treat everything he says with caution, remember it's your life he's potentially putting at risk!

Good luck

[Auriculaire in reply to tunybgur]

There are cardiologists who would argue that statins do not save lives to any significant degree , that the theory of cholesterol as a causal element in heart disease is without scientific foundation and that statins are a scam . They would recommend life style changes . I would be far more inclined to believe them as there is no money to be made in telling people to go out for walks and eat real food and get enough sleep .

[tunybgur in reply to Auriculaire]

I prefer not to get involved in a statin discussion, it's been beaten to death in several forums and entrenched opinions prevail.

[Hidden in reply to tunybgur]

Thank you for your comments. I agree.

[Hidden]

I can't take Beta Blockers. They drop my heart rate so low that I flip over into A FIB. Happened every single time, with every single dose. They quickly stopped that nonesense.

As for putting out a newer article, usually once they decide to change a standard of care, they rarely revisit the subject unless something drastic comes to light. Don't worry, if the drug companies figured out a way to spin this favorably with a new study, it would supercede this info.

This information was all over the US news media at the time and was also in the UK newspapers at the time Europe changed their standard of care.

Thankfully, it had never really gotten traction to use it with non-cardiac surgery patients in the US.

I remember back in the 1980's when my wife was in her early 30's. She went to the doctor and after 1 BP reading was put on Corgard, a Beta Blocker. She was pretty much non-functional. She was so fatigued she was unable to care for our young children, she rapidly gained weight, and was unable to drive due to diziness. I took her back to the doctor and demanded answers. Even on the Corgard, her BP was high at the doctor's office. The GP was at a loss as to what the problem was. Had he read the package insert he would have known. Too bad we did not have internet back then!

I took her to see my cardiologist. Same high BP reading, same symptoms etc. He took her off the Corgard and wanted to give it time to get out of her system before doing a 24 hour Holter Monitor. Turns out her BP was just fine, except when she went to the doctor. Diagnosis: White Coat Hypertension. Answer - Valium an hour before a doctor or dentist visit.

Fast forward to 2014 when we had to change doctors due to a change in insurance. Same issue. BP at the initial visit was through the roof. She explained about her previous diagnosis. The doctor excused herself and came back with a pill for her to take. It was Klonipin. After 10 minutes she returned and the BP was down 40 points.

Because it was still not 120/80 she put her on 10mg of Lisinopril for 3 weeks. She had to monitor her BP 3 times a day and save the readings. Then had to take the monitor in to be reviewed. There was only 1 instance when her BP was over 120/80 and that was when we were having a heated argument. Most of the time it was 113/70.

When she went back to the doctor it was once again high, even though she was on Lisinopril. No surprise there. She reported to the doctor that she was fatigued, had dizzy spells and was scared to drive. The doctor reviewed her monitor and told her to take her BP every morning and only take Lisinopril if it was 140/90 or higher. She has not had to take one pill in the past 6 years.

Every doctor and dentist visit we go through the high BP discussion ad nauseum. A review of her records shows she had the same issue as a kid. Turns out she was, and still is, scared to death of doctors. She was molested by the doctor giving physicals at her school when she was 13.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I have the same issue , white coat syndrome . Why? I have no idea. So I monitor at home and present it to the doctor who is aware of it.

[Lilypocket]

I think I have heard this before for diet etc being the culprit and in some cases it probably is. However I'm a non- smoking, non drinking vegetarian , no caffeine either and limited sugar ( yoghurt and honey for breakfast)

I have Paroxysmal Afib that is not provoked by anything so I take meds including beta blockers. I don't think this Dr can put every case into the same basket and say:"beta blockers kill you". It might influence fragile people who could stop their medication. As to " How did people manage before" ...They died younger.

Thanks for the info anyway 🙂

[Hidden in reply to Lilypocket]

I have even cut out honey .

[Lilypocket in reply to Hidden]

Yikes! After it's QoL for me so I shall continue my teaspoon of honey a day 😊