HELP

[Cavalierrubie]

Hello all. Need some advice please. Have been trying many medications for AF - the newer anticoagulants, and had bad side effects. Now trying Warfarin. Been on it for 6 days and feeling nauseous. Will this get better with time? I don't mind battling on if it will, but at the moment it is horrible. I have not vomited and can eat ok. Thanks in advance.

[Hidden]

Sorry to hear that you have experienced side effect problems with anticoagulants particularly as they a crucial element in treatment for AF. It might help if you could elaborate on which medication caused what side effects because we are all different and therefore react differently to medication. Considering how many members there now are on the forum and making the assumption that the majority take some form of anticoagulant, we do not get that many issues raised but some talk about digestive problems, aching joints, nose bleeds and occasionally loss of hair. Of course, many of us take various different types of medication therefore it can sometimes be difficult to establish which is causing what side effect. Also, as you mention, it can take a while for the body to adjust to changes in medication but one thing is for sure, if anyone is prescribed an anticoagulant they should not make any changes without consulting their doctor as the consequences can be life changing......

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Hidden]

I have been under the hospital for changes in drugs supervised by an Arrythmia Nurse so it has all been kosha! The side effects were awful, the main ones being vertigo and feeling generally unwell to the point that I became a couch potatoe. Quality of life nil. It was very necessary to change. The drugs I tried were Xralto and Apixaban (think I spelt it correctly). I have always had a problem with any kind of pills. My body always seems to reject medications, and I think this is because many years ago, my then Dr. ,got me hooked on Valium. I got myself off these - took me years and was very difficult. My nervous system has been left sensitive hence............. but the medical profession would never coment on this because they made a big error with (mother's little helper pills) Been lots problems. I have to take an anticoagulant, as we all do, choice is not an option so I am hoping and praying these will be OK. I am quite scared and worried.

[Hidden in reply to Cavalierrubie]

Obviously hope they work for you too. I took Warfarin initially with no problems other than maintaining a stable INR. I have been taking Apixaban now for well over three year with no problems that I’m aware of. We generally get good comments about Edoxaban. Xarelto, known here as Rivaroxaban can cause upset stomach if not taken WITH food.

Best of luck......

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Hidden]

Thanks. Seeing my Cardiologist for 1st time on 5th August so perhaps they will reassure me on things. Not heard of the other medication you mentioned. but at least there is another option if this fails. Thanks for taking time to speak.

[BobD Volunteer]

I have been on warfarin for fifteen years and apart from brittle nails have never had any side effects of which I have been aware. Caveat, we are all different!

[Cavalierrubie in reply to BobD]

Thanks for reply. From what I have read it seems to be well tolerated, and I was glad to be put on it last week. It seems to be taking a long time for me to get sorted out but hope to get better in time. When I was diagnosed with this horror, little did I know that these medications, for me, are worse than the condition. Its been going on since end May and have not been well since so getting more anxious and worried. I am, however, grateful that it is not life threatening which is a big compensation. I am so glad I came on here to meet you. Great place to come, when nowhere else to turn to. Thanks.

[jeanjeannie50]

I've taken Warfarin for many years, I take it in the morning mid breakfast. Gives me a sore stomach otherwise.

Jean

[Maisiemay13]

I am on Apixaban have to say for two weeks felt awful but now it’s ok,hope you get it sorted x

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Maisiemay13]

Yes, I hope with perseverence this may come right like yourself. It must be a relief when you finally get settled and can carry on with life. This has given me panic attacks now as its gone on so long. keep well.

[Enaa56 in reply to Maisiemay13]

How did it make you feel awful? I started on Saturday with Apixaban and now experiencing stomach cramps!

[Maisiemay13 in reply to Enaa56]

Hi just very tired and nauseous

[Vanna-C]

I have been taking Rivaroxaban for about 5 years now, and I have to say that after the original panic about having to take them, I have been absolutely fine.

I have changed when I take it, I would prefer to take it in the evening, but each time I have been in hospital, they change it to the mornings.

Always take it with food, usually yogurt, and no problems at all!

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Vanna-C]

Thanks for reply

[President2012]

I have been on warfarin for almost 19 years and have had no problems. Best of luck!

[Cavalierrubie in reply to President2012]

Thanks for encouragement.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to President2012]

thanks for telling me that Mr President. Great inspiration. Take care.

[Auriculaire]

I have been on Apixaban since mid March. It gives me indigestion but not as badly as Pradaxa did. Try ginger for the nausea. It works well but you need to check if large amounts will affect INR.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Auriculaire]

Yes, I have bought some ginger tea, but having blood test tomorrow so will ask nurse. Thanks for tip. keep well.

[Bowcat]

Sorry to hear you have been feeling sick. I have been taking Rivaroxaban for over 3 years now and the only side affect has been indegestion but now take Ranitidine for that so all is OK now.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Bowcat]

Thanks for message.

[Barb1]

There are alternatives for people who cannot tolerate anticoagulants such as the Watchman.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Barb1]

What is the Watchman please?

[Barb1 in reply to Cavalierrubie]

It's like a sieve that is put into the left atrial appendage to help prevent the formation of clots. Someone on this site has had it done. I recommend you use the search engine.

[allserene]

I am going to bite the bullet and say something that might make you angry. If I said it my wife I would get a bust nose for sure. Do you think your problems with pills of all kinds are psychological ? You said you had issues with Valium back then, and perhaps that has prejudiced you against all pills of any kind. . It seems Eliquis (Apixaban) is tolerated by almost everyone with zero side-effects, so I suspect this may have a psychological root ...

[Auriculaire in reply to allserene]

Just not true. Tolerance of medicines is dependant on many factors including genetics. There has been recent research which shows that women do not metabolise some drugs as men do and that the recommended dose for many older drugs are wrong for women as they were tested in an era when all the guinea pigs (even the animals) were male. Quite a few people on this forum have reported side effects with Apixaban and nausea and digestive problems have come up. I get mild indigestion since being on it . This improves considerably if I halve the dose. Obviously I cannot do that permanently so I just have to put up with the indigestion.

[allserene in reply to Auriculaire]

My point is that her physical tolerance might be just fine , but psychologically she may think its not tolerated... Its like seeing a mouse in your kitchen..same mouse, same zero danger, but some people react psychologically in very different manner... Given the bad history of Valium use, a psychological cause should not be discounted.. Apixaban is a coated pill and should not be cut in half.. Beta blockers aren't and can.

[bayonnejoe1 in reply to allserene]

Your point is well taken regards the psychological dimension of side effects. The placebo effect is well substantiated, that it can cut both ways, is not always acknowledged. That said, making sure meds are taken with food, and the occasional Rantidine 300mg has been very helpful for me in coping with the occasional real, or imagined, med induced upset stomach in my own life.

[allserene in reply to bayonnejoe1]

I use ranitidine too on occasion. This week I had a colonsoscopy and the prep effects were awful and went on for days. Gurgling and bumping etc... I took an Imodium which did 50% of the job, and the ranitidine which got me back to normal in a few hours... Armed with those two pills and beta blockers, I feel invincible lol....

[Cavalierrubie in reply to allserene]

I don't think so.

[Auriculaire in reply to allserene]

You are wrong about the Apixaban. The manufacturers themselves conducted trials in which they crushed the tablets into a coarse powder and mixed them with either applesauce or water. This was done to see if absorption was equivalent for people who could not swallow pills or if they could be introduced into a naso gastric feeding tube. They found that the absorption in water was equivalent to taking the whole pill and that with the applesauce slightly less but not significantly so . Please do your research before coming out with such blanket statements. I realise this might be a bit difficult for you.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Auriculaire]

Sorry but it is true. I could tell you lots of awful stories but not suitable to print on here.

[Auriculaire in reply to Cavalierrubie]

I have read some awful accounts from people who have had to wean themselves off benzos. The problem with many prescription drugs is that they affect all sorts of systems in the body not just what they are supposed to - effectively poisoning us. Having been poisoned by Cipro myself I can see ways in which my body reacts differently. I can no longer tolerate caffeine.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Auriculaire]

Thank you. Unless you have experience of these drugs you will not understand how they affect the body - hence you are immediately thought of as a "nut case". I was not given them for any mental issues my Dr. misdiagnosed that I had Glandular Fever when I was younger and I ended up in hospital. They were given out to people like smarties at the time. Having researched how they affect the body. there has been a complete denial and cover up. I have never been the same. Thanks for your time. Keep well.

[Auriculaire in reply to Cavalierrubie]

I'm afraid denial and cover up are all too par for the course. Modern medicine has become thoroughly corrupted by the money and power of the Pharmaceutical companies and anybody who denies this is simply naive. Even former editors of prestigious medical journals have admitted that what they publish is influenced by considerations of advertising revenue. The billions in fines that Pharma has had to pay for jiggery pokery shows that their main concern is making money and they don't give a stuff who they hurt or kill with their products as long as the money comes rolling in. The medical profession is largely complicit in this out of ignorance , cupidity or in many cases these days fear that if they speak out their livlihoods will be damaged. This is also happening with scientific researchers who are not medical doctors too but whose research affects medicine. I do hooe you are able to get your anticogulant issues sorted out. Having had a TIA I am resigned to putting up with the mild indigestion from Apixaban and hope it settles down. I understand how you feel as being floxed ( poisoned by a fluoroquinolone antibiotic ) often means that drugs and even foods that could be consumed without problem before now are not tolerated by the body. It is appalling that you were given a benzo because you were in hospital.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Auriculaire]

Very interesting reading. You are a person of my own heart. I totally agree with everything you say. I find because of my lack of faith in the NHS I check everything I am prescribed. Its my life and my choice. I want to know what is going in my mouth. I wish you well with Apixaban. I think that is the best one and seems to suit many. I wish I could have taken it. Bless you and keep well.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to allserene]

No I have many contacts who have been adddicted and they are exactly same. If the body is clean its worse.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to allserene]

Absolutely not.

[Hidden in reply to allserene]

When people say this type of thing, typically it being men saying this to women, as in "it's all in your head, honey!".....after rolling my eyes because it's not worth it and bad for my heart to get angry, my response is that "psychological response" can and most definitely has been impacted directly by the drugs in my experience. That's actually the whole point! The physiology impacts the psychology with many of the drugs. That has definitely been my experience.

Case in point, hallucinations with Flecainide. My now former cardio's response was "Nightmares can happen for a variety of reasons, but maybe it is because of the Flecainide." Nope, doc, it was a hallucination. I know the difference. Guess what? Once I quit taking daily Flec, the hallucinations stopped. All in my head? I think not.

To anyone who responds with a version of "it's all in your head, honey," I encourage you to listen more carefully to what's being described and have an open mind. And to encourage the person expressing concerns to listen to herself and trust herself.

In my case, my relentless research and insistence on trusting myself and following my intuition have led me to 2 interesting results so far. The supplements I'm taking for treatment of an underlying have vastly improved my psychological well being because my immune system has been given an enormous boost, so I am not constantly being stressed. And, I've found my way to an EP who actually really listened to me and came to the conclusion, "I'm not going to fill you up with medication." Ha!

Given the state of health care (in the US anyway), with its overpowering at times prescribing of meds with no concern about the side effects, I feel it's important to support people who speak up about these challenges. Let's keep insisting on being heard, that our concerns matter. It's the only way to make change. We all respond differently to meds; docs need to understand this.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

oops... that's underlying *condition*....my brain was going faster than my fingers could type!

[allserene in reply to Hidden]

Psychological responses can affect both men and women... I understand that both resent the suggestion almost automatically...

[Hidden in reply to allserene]

I can only speak for this person and not all people. I don't find it terribly helpful to speak for all men and women. "Resenting" your comment is not what I have done; I have given you my opinion and have spoken from my own experience.

We'd all be healthier if we were supported in trusting our own bodies and what's going on with them instead of deferring to what others tell us are going on.

I'm also never fond of people psychoanalyzing complete strangers on online forums, with no knowledge of the details of their experiences. Or of being told what my own feelings are. I'm not sure if you have a blind spot about that and its impact or if you aren't concerned. Either way, it's not terribly helpful.

[allserene in reply to Hidden]

I raised the possibility of a psychological component in a general sense and not being specific about this person who I will never meet. I find that the power of the resentment to anyone suggesting such a possibility, is in direct proportion to its likely applicability. The percentage of afibers with emotional issues is the same as the population at large, and that percentage is not insignificant.

[Hidden in reply to allserene]

My final comment to you in this conversation is this....

Speaking in generalities as you have done, with the apparent level of certainty you convey, is actually rather off-putting. I've really not read any expression of actual empathy or attempt to understand either of those who have responded.

If people disagree with your point of view or choice in expressing yourself, what comes across is that you then to continue to decide that you know better, that you know how they are feeling and what they are experiencing.

Which you don't. And which is the entire point. With all respect, I think that you really don't get it

Normally, I wouldn't respond to this type of situation, but every now and again, I feel the need to speak up in case the person cares to take some feedback and possibly learn something.

A big challenge many patients face in dealing with doctors, and that women have faced for eons, is being dismissed. Is having their concerns, feelings, experience, questions, you name it, dismissed. It's not helpful. I wonder if you noticed that you have basically dismissed everything I shared about my own experience in the interest of correcting me.

The fact that you don't seem to get it isn't a surprise because a lot of people have that particular blindspot. Analyze, theorize, and diagnose, tell a person her experience rather than listen, really listen, maybe learn something, and see what's going on.

That's all for me now! 😂

[allserene in reply to Hidden]

I spoke in generalities so I don't have to express empathy with any particular person on the forum or in the world. What I posted is entirely sensible and every Doctor is used to the scenario where some patients report effects that are not clinically demonstrable, and are more rooted in the patient's emotional state. Denying that is futile. Seems you have a lot of pent-up resentments concerning males, and I know that is incurable.. Bye

[Auriculaire in reply to allserene]

I think your mention in your first post about your wife busting your nose says it all.

[allserene in reply to Auriculaire]

Most people's wives are female, so that doesn't imply a criticism of females as a whole, unless you have some issue going on that makes it so in your thinking... If that is the case, then any of the drugs mentioned so far on this forum, indeed any other drugs, will not help you.

[Hidden in reply to Auriculaire]

😹🤣😂

You took the words right out of my mouth, Auriculaire! 🥰

[Auriculaire in reply to Hidden]

Yes and his reply to me says he does not really understand what I was getting at! Also see his know it all reply about not breaking coated tablets in half. This might be true as a general rule but the manufacturers of Apixaban conducted tests to see if crushed up tablets had absorption problems. I found this study within 15mins of searching on the web. But he prefers to sound off without having bothered to do any research. His wife must be very tolerant.

[Hidden in reply to Auriculaire]

I still haven't quite gotten over "...so I don't have to express empathy with any particular person on the forum or in the world."

On a forum that is fundamentally concerned with the human heart....

On a thread entitled, "HELP."

I think that goal or intention, or whatever it is says it all.