I have persistent AFib and the only symptom is reduced energy. Since the beginning of the month I have been on a weight-loss regime - my BMI was over 28 - a heart-healthy diet and tincture of Hawthorn (Cretaegus). It's early days but I'm feeling more energy. There are claims that cretaegus restores NSR. I understand that if cardioversion restores NSR it does so instantly, my main question refers to any restoration of NSR through drugs, 'natural' or other. Is this normally a gradual process? Following from this are there degrees of irregularity? and can someone with persistent AFib expect irregularities to be greater at some times than other, depending on whether they have been resting or active. I am monitoring my pulse and would like more understanding on what to look for. Information from anyone who has used prescribed drugs rather than natural may be relevant. Thank you.
Restoring Hearth Rhythm through drugs... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Restoring Hearth Rhythm through drugs - is it a gradual process?
Hi. I have taken Hawthorn in the past to reduce my blood pressure and it was very effective. I should stress that this was when I was under care of a nutritionist and had support of my GP. I don’t take it at all now since I have been diagnosed with AF ( paroxysmal). This is because it can interact with a lot of heart medication including beta blockers and some other blood pressure medication. If you are on any other meds I would strongly advise you to check with your doctor or pharmacist for any potential interactions. For me, hawthorn will trigger an AF episode (I think due to interaction with Bisoprolol) so not worth risking despite the BP benefits of this herb. That said, I do wish you luck with your search for natural alternatives to some of the dreadful drugs we get prescribed for this condition!! Liz
Thanks, My blood pressure is satisfactory and I don't take any other medication. Your experience confirms that of others that it has an effect, whether desired or otherwise. I am planning to consult my GP and also the consultant at the hospital, though I am not expecting the hospital to be helpful on this.
To the best of my knowledge you will either be in afib or not. There aren`t really different degrees of afib like having a headache for example. You are either in it or your heart beats normally.
Regarding med`s and afib. Again this is just my understanding - maybe different people respond in different ways. For me med`s aren`t gradual in restoring sinus. If they restore you to normal sinus it`s pretty fast acting. What they will do is help you stay in sinus after a CV.
This is my personal take on what I have found for myself.
Best,
Paul
Thanks. 'pretty fast acting' isn't quite the same as 'instant' though.
Sure Ivan - there is no 'instant fix' except for a CV - if it works of course. Flec used as a pill in the pocket can convert some people (assuming it does) in an hour or so - it can be pretty quick acting.
Enjoy your day.
Best,
Paul
Certainly wouldn't mind taking Flec as a one-off, but I have persistent AFib.
I tried hawthorn when I had AF and it didn't work. I didn't find anything that did, natural or drugs. Only an ablation sorted it.
Hawthorn seems to have an effect on me, whether a wholly good one I'm not entirely sure. I find a considerable variation between Brands, the best I know is by Voegel.
I don't take Crategus but have considered taking homeopathically. As it is I'm feeling worse and worse each day - more tired and even less energy. This has been a recent decline but I hesitate to go to my GP because she may alter my prescribed drugs without consultation with a specialist.
I am sorry to hear this, but can't you ask to see the specialist. You don't have to follow the GPs recommendations, they are not necessarily experts on this. One GP in my practice told me very firmly I had to take Rivaroxaban, but the lead GP told me I didn't need to take it for now.
As I understand it, arrhythmias are either on or off but their impact on the body (and mind) are variable. Certainly, in flutter, for example, the heart loses 15% of its pumping function because the atria are no longer contracting, and this loss isn't always compensated by increased ventricular function. Also, the heart muscle itself can be variable in its efficiency at pumping blood around the body. The lungs, too, need to be efficient at providing oxygenated blood to the heart, and the micro-circulation needs to be efficient at distributing oxygenated blood and clearing lactic acid and so on from the muscles. The reduced cardiac output will more or less affect blood pressure, too, having variable effects.
All of this means that the effects of arrhythmia will differ widely on individuals. Some can continue life much as usual, as you manage to do, whereas others are forced to suffer a much reduced lifestyle - which was my case.
I find it difficult to believe that persistent arrhythmia could suddenly go off. I find it a bit more believable that it could become intermittent with the frequency of episodes diminishing.
I’m sure you’re right, which might be why anticoagulants are a lifelong requirement if you have an attack of afib after ablation, for example - which happened to me on Friday, ten days after a successful permanent flutter ablation.
I certainly want to avoid anticoagulants as long as possible. There are many natural substances which are said to have the same effect. Of course the medical profession say there is no conclusive evidence for this whilst at the same time advising people to avoid these substances if they are on anticoagulants. However your case is rather different to mine and I don't want to encourage you in any risky direction.
It’s the existence in foods of “vitamin k” type chemicals that causes them to have effects on blood coagulation. This is how warfarin works and why it has so many potential interactions with foods. The newer anticoagulants work differently and have no interactions of that kind. In that respect, they are a useful advance over warfarin and vitamin k products as well as being more convenient.
Natural substances are - to the body - chemicals rather than anything else. They are not standardised do occur in different quantities and their bioavailability depends upon so many aspects that, again, can’t be controlled.
We aren’t born with any ability to differentiate chemical sources. Chemicals from unprocessed natural food sources tend to be absorbed erratically and often more slowly because they are inside cell walls. This means, for example, that they are absorbed in different places in the stomach and small intestine.
My experience over many years of trying with “natural” products hasn’t been very successful, sadly.
My instinct to go for 'natural' remedies may be tested over the coming years. Obviously people of a religious inclination may be attracted to the idea that God has placed cures in the natural world but there may be some reasons behind that which an aetheist could accept. Our bodies have evolved to interact with the natural world where powerful chemicals do not exist in isolation. Drugs which are extracts from natural substances or which have been synthesised in the laboratory frequently have side effects, that I suspect may often be because of the powr and there are no accompanying substances to buffer them. The disadvantage of natural remedies may be that dosage cannot be so easily controlled but if they are taken over a period of time this may even itself out. I'd certainly rather try natural remedies first, my worry is that by so doing I'll waste valuable time and the AFib will get worse. However that is not the same degreee of risk as if I had a potentially fatal cancer and was trying natural remedies first.
I enjoyed reading your post - thank you. As for supernatural explanations of the natural... well, I’ll choose rationality and the scientific method! 😉 The risk of arrhythmia is in its potential to weaken the heart and to create conditions for thrombus formation with the potential for stroke. That certainly is enough to convince me to stick with science.
I'm not sure I got my point across. If herbal remedies work there is nothing 'supernatural' about it. It may be that in extracting the most active ingredient from a herbal remedy other substances which protect against side-effects are left behind. And there may be evolutionary reasons why the most active ingredient is found together with other substances.
Hi - my fault. It's not been the best of days and my mind was elsewhere. I did get and appreciate your point, sorry.
It was your comment about God that led me to my own comment. I agree that pharmaceuticals are very different from natural medicines in the sense of being isolated, pure and, thus, "concentrated". I doubt we have evolved to use "natural" medicines, though, myself. I'm all for science and the scientific method. The major problem we face is the profit involved and the propensity for pharma companies to "oversell" their wares.
I take nattokinase & cut my finger the other day & I bled like a pig lol
My shorts were covered & when I finally got to the house & washed it an hr later, I couldn’t believe how small the cut was, only conclusion I could come up with was the nattokinase?
I once read that it’s normaly old people that are asymptotic because the atria part of the heart has already weakened due to age & when afib happens you don’t notice much of a change but if your young & that part is strong & then afib kicks in you really feel the difference?
That’s interesting. I’m 65 but “young”, yet I’ve truly been incapacitated by, first, persistent atrial flutter, then a bout of afib last week (following my ablation). I have read of athletes coping well with afib, though.
When I read of some people living with this condition, and “breezing” through the ablation, I’ve come to realise that there are wildly different responses to those two arrhythmias.
Yep, I’m a young 63 & I’m very symptomatic when I’m in afib, very debilitating but it’s marvelous how the heart adapts, I went over 4 months with a heart rate between 140/160 & at first a small hill would wear me out but day before my CV I did 15 miles
and I'm 64, soon to be 65, and am certainly considering if I can live with AF rather than let the hospital push me down the CV and Ablation route.
I never did feel pushed into making any decisions - but I did feel very poorly indeed. To the best of my ability, I weighed up the information I could glean, listened to experts trained well beyond my own knowledge, and then chose ablation and anticoagulation. I now hope it all proves worthwhile
I hope it goes well for you.
Getting your BMI down to 25 or lower will have a very beneficial impact on your AF numerous studies have shown that, personally I would take magnesium over hawthorn! Good luck !
I'm on the way and thanks for the encouragement.
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