Almost AF, followed by wind and bloating....?

[DaveT81]

So, a few hours earlier I was sitting by the couch when I felt that fairly familiar quivering in my chest. My heart gave a short run of ectopics, quivered again and then was just beating fast (for me, resting HR is 60-ish) at about 90 for about 15 mins after. It was probably as much the surprise as anything but the experience is always unsettling, regardless of when it happens.

Anyway, within about 10 seconds of this I felt gassy and bloated and have done ever since. Its been about 2-3 hours since.

I'm very aware of the link between vagus nerve, stomach, AF and I know for certain that my AF is vagally triggered, amongst other things I'd say but could my heart really sort of.. I don't know, pre-empt the discomfort and bloating in my stomach that way? Could it be that the gas and bloating was building up and has irritated my heart, so the little 'almost-afib' feeling is quickly followed by the gastro discomfort?

It certainly isn't the first time it's happened but it's been happening more frequently lately. Particularly as I've suddenly become hugely intolerant to gluten and dairy since last year. But the handful of occurrences lately have really stressed me. I'm almost waiting for the full blown AF to kick in.

Not really after answers, but happy to hear any suggestions. More so just wondering if anybody else ever experienced similar?

[Drounding]

I always feel bloated when I'm pre or in af. I'm not allergic to wheat and dairy but I do find that drastically reducing them both from my diet helps. So you're not alone with your symptoms.

[secondtry]

Hi Dave, I think you have a combination of a gastro side which needs sorting out (to prevent AF and to keep healthy) and the thought of imminent AF is exacerbating the issue causing more wind/bloating.

Back 4 years and I couldn't sit down to relax in the evening after a busy day as almost every time I felt that quivering so had to get up and do some light household chores to get rid of it. The reason I believe was that I was too close to the AF threshold already and with Vagal AF (an imbalance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems bright on by personal and work stress) you have to wind down very slowly towards evening and bedtime otherwise it kicks in either before or during sleep.

All of us can only relate our story and leave it to you to pick out the bits for you. So this is how it went for me....I needed urgent stability so went onto Flecainide, still didn't feel well so saw a Naturopath (for Mg and CoQ10 supplements) and a Nutrionist (for food/gastro). Don't expect the medics to go with you on this journey, my cardiologist has been good but when I told him I had Vagal AF and it was the stomach and head I was working on, he just shrugged his shoulders. So 4 years later, my QOL is excellent I have reduced gluten by 90% and sugar by 70%, minimal processed supermarket food and spending double the amount on high quality food direct from the farmer nb many are intolerant to commercial dairy but not raw dairy from a quality source. Also, reducing gluten means finding a quality bread not the supermarket stuff which is gluten free but comes with a lot of unhealthy ingredients.

Sorry gone on too long but it is a big subject.

[CDreamer in reply to secondtry]

I now only make my own bread using sourdough - for some reason this mitigates the gluten reaction I have - bloating - and as long as I restrict it to one small loaf between 2 of us per week - all is well.

The other big difference is leaving water in a jug for several hours before drinking so the chlorine evaporates. This has also made a much larger difference than I ever expected.

[secondtry in reply to CDreamer]

Like the water tip! I drink a mixture of tap,bottled still and filtered deliberately. Just a tip I picked up from my nutrionist, who brings broad experience - she works on the chinese theory of don't extinguish the cooking pot in your stomach with cold liquids. I find this helpful not least because I can drink 3 times as much warm water than I can cold. My gastro side after a long time is pretty much sorted thanks to this and other changes.

[DaveT81 in reply to secondtry]

Yeah, I've found improving/changing my diet had initially reduces these symptoms (I'd changed my diet a year ago due to heart irritation which was seemingly caused by newfound gastro problems!). It worked to begin with, for the most part but now I seem to have the gas, bloaty feeling and a I'm uncomfortable fullness in my stomach and chest most nights, regardless of what I've eaten!

I am entirely gluten and wheat free, I've also cut down on dairy to the point where I haven't eaten anything dairy for at least a few weeks.

I do but a lot of my GF foods from supermarkets though. I'm not a big meat eater but I do like the odd beef chili, burger, sausages but not all that regularly.

Its really, quite clearly causing my heart serious irritation lately though.

I'm seeing a private Dr who had originally prescribed me Omeprazole but I wasn't convinced this was helping so I gradually stopped taking it. He had be back on it again now, but again.. I'm not too keen. I'll try anything at the moment but only for a limited time, as I'm having multiple other symptoms, of which the gastro and AF problems are just a couple.

Also, not sure if I mentioned but I had a successful ablation in June 2017 and I've not been in AF since, apart from a short 2 hour episode a week after it.

My wife keeps telling me that I'm safe for 5 years at least, because that's what the Dr said but it's hard to explain to somebody that doesn't experience it that that's just a rough estimate and you could have a breakthrough at any time.

[Auriculaire in reply to DaveT81]

Sometimes digestive problems are due to microbiome disturbance. I have this and find that any antibiotics even a "natural" one such as oregano oil cause this. Also I get it with colonoscopy prep. The surgeon who did my bowel op said it strips away the good bacteria. I find that trying to too rapidly correct it with probiotics makes it worse, but taking the probiotics once or twice a week to start off with then very gradually increasing them works . It is now 6 months since my last colonoscapy and gradually my digestion is approaching normal. It is also nearly 5 months since my last afib attack and the three I had last year have all been connected to this issue- the 1st after the op , the second one week after the post op colonoscopy and the last after taking oregano oil for a UTI. I would never contemplate a PPI. They are nothing but sticking plasters and stop the absorption of magnesium and B12.

[Elaine1951 in reply to Auriculaire]

Can you tell me more about oregano oil please.

[Auriculaire in reply to Elaine1951]

Oregano oil can be used as a natural antibiotic. It also has anti fungal and anti viral properties. I buy capsules at my local chemist. In the UK they might be available at Holland and Barrett. I have used it successfully to get rid of a UTI and post cold coughs. The essential oil can also be used in steaming for coughs. It is important to get a quality oil with a high carvedicol ( not sure I've spelt that right!) content. You are not supposed to take it for longer than a week possibly 10 days I have read on some websites but the info on my capsules from the chemist said you could for small doses. I don't know if it is contraindicated with anticoagulants . Unlike garlic which is also a natural antibiotic it does affect the good bacteria of the microbiome but as yet bacteria have not developed resistance to it. There is lots of info online about it. If you put in a search for natural antibiotics it is usually included along with other stuff. Some people put the oil under their tongue but admit it tastes horrible.

[CDreamer]

My experiences mirror the two already expressed.

[Kellyjelly]

I could have written your post! I have had the exact same symptoms you describe on and off for years but recently they are happening daily and the bloating and burping with elevated heart rate can go on for hours. My heart feels incredibly excitable when the bloating happens and like any false move and I will tip into full afib.

I wish I knew why this happens or how to stop it but nothing has really worked so far although a few things do help.

I do feel generally better if I limit my carbohydrates and avoid bread and wheat. Gaviscon lessens the length of the time it lasts for sometimes. Walking around helps me to burp and stops me feeling like something is literally pressing on my heart.

I absolutely hate the feeling when this happens and wound love to get to the bottom of it too.

[DaveT81 in reply to Kellyjelly]

Hi Kellyjelly,

Its hard to deal with at times, isn't it? I started on a GF, wheat and dairy free diet this time last year and gradually took more and more out of my diet. It helped to begin with but I seem to have the bloating and discomfort now more than ever, doesn't even matter what I eat.

As you said, it feels like one wrong move could tip it over the edge so it probably makes it worse as you're stressing about it and waiting for it to happen.

What makes it worse is that, prior to ablation I rarely experienced ectopics. I had an occasional PAC but I only knew I had afib after 2 proper episodes. Since the ablation I've suffered with ectopics regularly and daily since my stomach issues began.

[Auriculaire in reply to DaveT81]

I do not know whether they give a prophylactic antibiotic for an ablation as they do with operations but if they do this might have disturbed the gut bacteria.

[Kellyjelly in reply to DaveT81]

Exactly like you I have cut things out of my diet and sometimes it has helped but ultimately it always comes back and some days it’s just relentless. I had a week of feeling nearly normal when I was prescribed omeprazole recently but then it came back.

Have you had any investigations done on your tummy? I’m seeing my doctor at the end of the month and I’m going to ask for some tests to be done. A few people have mentioned hiatus hernia to me on here, it might be worth going back to your doctor and focusing on the stomach problems to see if they can find any reason for it.

If I get any answers I will let you know !

[DaveT81 in reply to Kellyjelly]

Yeah, that's where it gets weird - had gastroscopy, menometry and a 24 hour acidity monitor. Didn't show anything significant.

My doctor has put me on omeprazole again. Didn't really do much for me the first time but I'll try them again.

I'd seriously considered a hernia too but I've had 2 x rays and a CT scan, none of which showed anything. Its almost as if my symptoms aren't happening! Which is why my NHS GP started banging the anxiety drum so early on.

I've changed GPs now though, so I am hoping we can get things moving again. I'm also going to go with what some of the guys here have said and look into seeing a nutritionist.

[smwdorset]

Hi I had AF on and off for 16 years before having an ablation ( two years ago and no attacks since - yay!) in my case for the first 15 years the attacks were always preceded by gastric disturbance often by not always involving vomiting. My EP told me it was a classic trigger!!! Since the ablation I have tried hard to avoid overeating, cut down on alcohol and also watched out for acidic foods.

And touch wood no attacks. Could be a coincidence but I’m not going to revert to my former diet!

[DaveT81 in reply to smwdorset]

Same here - since my diagnosis at 35 in Feb 2017 I cut down on alcohol, changed my diet and tried to reduce my weight.

It helped greatly. Sadly, I've found that my ectopic beats/heart activity has increased post-ablation, but I haven't been in AF in around 20 months. It's like I've traded one for the other haha.

[Hidden]

Dave,

All I can say is yeah, yeah, yeah ditto, ditto. Except, with the exception of a 5 hour burst of AF on 15 Feb 2018, I have been AF free since 15 April 2015. This one off burst occurred when I had been sleeping on my left side.

I consulted a Nutritionist and followed her advice rather than rely on my GP or my cardiac consultant.

John

[DaveT81 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks John. Another suggesting a nutritionist. I'm definitely going to look into it and see what help I can get in that area now.

[Hidden in reply to DaveT81]

Dave, if you are in Britain go to the BANT website for guidance to a nutritionist near where you live.

John

[Raceg]

I have the same symptoms also on flecanaide with no break through--just occasionally pvc's. Don't understand why my cardiologist and endocrinologist never mentioned it--frustrating. I am becoming more sensitive and gastric symptoms are being more frequent. Will definitely try dietary changes. Does AF foundation agree with correlation?

[DaveT81 in reply to Raceg]

Yeah I am too.

My gastro problems have worsened a great deal in 12 months and my heart was the main reason I changed my diet.

It's so frustrating as I can't do anything - seemingly - without it impacting my heart somehow.

[planetiowa]

I occasionally have and feel the same thing. Sometimes if I've gone too long between meals, my heart gets very jumpy. Burping usually relives it, but only for a short time. One thing that usually calms it down for me is to take an H2-blocker (such as Zantac).

[DaveT81 in reply to planetiowa]

That's very very interesting that you say that. As I've noticed I have those issues if I have periods that are longer than usual between meals. In fact, I ate this morning around 08:30 and didn't have my lunch until around 13:30 and my heart gave a few hiccups about 45 minutes ago.

[Elaine1951]

Agree with so many of these posts. Fascinating and mirroring my experiences