Please help atrial flutter

[Lotty321]

Sorry guys I’m having a bit of panic day today!! After reading a lot of your posts I have seen that sometimes cardioversion works and sometimes it doesn’t!! Does this mean that if I go into atrial flutter again and a Cardioversion doesn’t work will it then become dangerous. Any help on this or experiences would be great x

[jedimasterlincoln]

Like AF, on its own flutter is rarely dangerous.

Obviously having a prolonged fast HR or irregular rhythm isn't good.... and presents a stroke risk but this can be negated depending on your "score" and taking of anticoagulants.

[CDreamer]

Panic = anxiety = stress on the body = more likely to have Arrythmia. Address your concerns and the stress that accompanies them as worrying is the worst thing you can do. Avoid fixating on the ‘what ifs,,,,,’ or at least turn it into a positive - ‘What if a Cardioversion worked for you.’

May I suggest you go to the Arrythmia Alliance page and read up on Flutter and what to expect - which will then help you to understand your treatment options which will then help you to talk to your doctors about what is possible for you.

Speculation leads to rumination which leads anxiety which gets us all worked up which leads to faster heartbeats and more Arrythmia. Keeping calm is really important.

Anxiety is common reaction to Arrythmias and I think we have all been there and that it is important to learn ways of calming yourself. AF & AFl can make you feel very unwell but they aren’t generally considered immediately life threatening. Many of us on this site live with various arrythmias which make life a little more complicated as we may not be able to do things we used to do but we adapt. My first Arrythmia episode was in 2006 and I haven’t died yet,

There are lots of ways you can help yourself - light exercise, meditation, yoga, CBT, seeing a Counsellor - just doing things you enjoy - endorphins cancel stress hormones,

Best wishes CD

[Lotty321 in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you that has really helped, I have downloaded an app called calm!! Xx

[CDreamer in reply to Lotty321]

I have that one - they do a series on stress if you have the full version - 7 Days of reducing stress which I found excellent.

[Hidden]

Atrial flutter is quite a mild type of arrhythmia and is not one of the serious ones. You might be racing ahead and overthinking things here!

Cardioversion sometimes can be unsuccessful but usually it works and gets normal rhythm back. If it only lasts a short time and normal rhythm is not established people might say it hasn't worked but it does not mean it has failed.

It's not nice to have your heart misbehaving, but remember that some of us have had dodgy rhythms for many years and are doing OK.

[Kaz747 in reply to Hidden]

I wouldn’t call the episodes of AFlutter I had mild 😀 - I guess it depends on your heart rate. I had 3 days at 150bpm so was hospitalized and cardioverted. That lasted a couple of months then my heart went back into Flutter and then into AFib. I’ve had higher rates with SVT and AF but not for that length of time. Too long at a high rate is not good for the heart muscle. If the cardioversion doesn’t work (and I don’t see why it won’t) then, if your rate is too high, they’ll give you medication to slow the rate 💓💓

[Hidden in reply to Kaz747]

By 'mild type of arrhythmia' I mean that Atrial Flutter (be it fast and furious or mildly pottering along) is not one of the seriously worrying ones that may be threatening a patient's life.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

It all depends on the conduction block of the av node. As in my case I have a very sluggish av node with a 4:1 conduction. That means the relative fast flutter of

260 / min in the atria will be slowed down to 65 / min because of the 4:1 "block".

Normal conduction is 2:1. That is 130 / min. Of course if your flutter is 300 / min

you get a 150 / min heart rate. Better to stay below 90.

Because of this I'm asymptomatic and can go on with it. I have this persistent for

15 month now.

[Shcldavies]

I have been suffering with arythmia since 1995 and been getting worst for the last 18 months. It was thought to be MAT but not caught on a 12 lead ECG. Five weeks ago I was blue lighted to A&E. Aflt picked up on 12 lead. I could not get up as I went into what the Doc said was a dangerous VT so had to stay horizontal, after 4 days Doc did Cardioversion, he was confident that it would work as he said it nearly always does for AFlt, it did, worked first time but it has taken me a long time to recover. I can now just about move around near normal and do some light work. I don't know if it's the sedation, anesthetic or heart recovery time but my return to normal has taken a long time and not there yet. But I am arythmia free which is good. Doc told me that Aflt can cause stroke if not treated and has changed my medication accordingly and as Aflt can be cured by ablation I am scheduled for an EP study/ablation on 5 March. Doc said that the EP study would provide good indication of what is going on, it would almost certainly fix the Aflt and may fix anything else that may be there, or at least better identify what, if anything is there for treating with medication. At least my QOL should improve after the ablation and there is a possibility that I may get cured.

I am not 100% shure but I think the Doc said that Aflt Cardioversion has always worked for him, and went on to say that if it did not work the next step was an ablation.

[KMRobbo]

I had an a fib pvi ablation 29th January 2018. Cured the afib but days later i went into a re entrant atrial flutter in the right atria, which was rate controlled by the diltiazem I was taking at 140 bpm.i was at this rate for 3 weeks until a second ablation was done to stop it. I was pretty tired after this but I appear to have recovered completely. I have no know damage to my heart from this.

I am not medically trained but this is what happened to me and I am still here!

The worst of it was I spent 3 weeks doing nothing but lying down as I was so breathless with the flutter. Consequently I was unfit after the ablation stopped the flutter. I did read a lot if books though!

Best thing is to relax until you get the cardioversion and see what happens. If it does not hold the right atria rf ablation I had for flutter I was told is quicker. Less risky and more succesful (95%) than an afib ablation.

Obviously I do not know if the ablation would be the same for your flutter,

Best wishes

[Lotty321]

Thank you everyone for your reply’s it has really helped x

[Maril1]

I was diagnosed with permanent aflutter in 2006 HR 150 no drugs worked only cardioversion .At the time they gave me up to 3 goes with the pads each time it worked but on occasion it took all three. Finally got an ablation in 2008 after a number of cardioversions .This was successful in curing the Aflutter but still get afib for up to 6 hrs at a time . At the time I had to push for the ablation.

[Hidden in reply to Maril1]

I read after AFL ablation 50% of people develop AF. I can't remember now if that applies to

left atrial flutter ablation too. Its one of the reasons I don't like to go for ablation of my

flutter. My flutter could be right or left atria (50%) or both. I have several surgical scars from mitral valve repair and appendix closure possible reasons for the flutter. Also

the scars from a pvi ablation done during the surgery. Altogether this could be a substantial loss of functional atria wall. With more ablations there will be more scares and

consequently more loss of functional atria surface. In the end the atria looses more and more ability to contract properly because of the muscle loss. It all depends on the kind of

ablation approach too.

[Maril1 in reply to Hidden]

Sorry a being so late with my reply I had to check my medical notes but couldn't find anything in depth. I assume you suffer aflutter is it permanent? They tried me with various concoctions of drugs but nothing stopped the Aflutter just reduced the rate slightly. I have found that I could tolerate aflutter more than afib as I felt stable( I didn't even know I had it but I new there was something wrong because I use to come to sudden stop when playing football) but with afib its like fireworks going off in my chest and cannot settle ,normally go for a walk or have a few beers which tend to shorten the episode faster than pip. I use to take a pip flecanide but felt spaced out up to 24hrs after. I also found out by accident during my time in Aflutter after trying every concoction of drugs under the sun that a couple of pints of lager brought me back to normal but only lasted overnight .

[Hidden in reply to Maril1]

My flutter is long standing persistent. "Permanent" is not clear because I never tried

anything to stop it. If it can be stopped by cardio version i.e. it is not classified as "Permanent" I think.

I just noticed you take Flecainide. Please very careful when taking this med when you have flutter ( in case you have flutter again after ablation....) It is recommended to take the appropriate dose of a beta blocker

with it together. Flecainide on its own can induce an AV node conduction of 1:1.

That means very fast ventricular rates. Its different with AF. Flecainide alone should be ok then. Flecainide with flutter reduces the atria speed to such a degree that the AV node

can switch back to a normal conduction 1:1.

Thats what my cardiologists said.

[Maril1 in reply to Hidden]

I haven't suffered from aflutter since I had an ablation in 2008 and stopped taking flecanide as a pip for afib for a number of years as I found going for a walk did the trick a lot faster. I haven't taken a beta blocker since I ended up back in A&E as my heart was as low as 23 on 2.5 bisoprolol.My resting HR is below 60 and is often in the low 40s without any meds so beta blockers are out as far as I am aware. I was on the dreaded amiodarone for about 6 months during my Aflutter years I am not sure whether this caused the bradycardia, I read this somewhere but not sure whether it's effect is long standing.

Thanks for all your input your medical knowledge is far superior to mine are you in the trade so to speak?

[Hidden in reply to Maril1]

I'm not in the trade just get my info from EPs and Cardiologists and some research.

Before the ablation was it AFL only or AF too?

[Maril1 in reply to Hidden]

Sorry I'm late with the reply.It was permanent Aflutter so not really sure but could possibly be Proxy afib before the permanent Aflutter.The Aflutter is cured now touch wood apparently it an easy ablation.

[djmnet]

Had my first cardioversion two weeks ago. Was in NSR for only two days before AF returned (mine is mild compared to other posters here). Disappointed to say the least.

[PengieP]

So, if your heart rate is very slow does that mean your heart will last longer? I know the rapid rate will give you heart failure. But if you get that treated your hear can recover pretty quickly to normal at a normal or slower heart rate if everything else is ok.

[007talullah]

If the CV doesn't put you back in to NSR there are other options to avoid 'danger'. Medication can help minimise stroke risk, slow your heart rate and control erratic rhythms. It may take some trial and error to find medications that feel OK for you and that suit your situation but there are options.

Try to stay positive! Panic is no good for anyone. Control the controllable and learn how to not worry about the rest.

I wish you all the best

[Hidden]

Lotty321, I do not want to sound all "know it all" or like I'm special. But, I had AF and SVT so much during this last year that I've forgotten how many Emergency Room visits I have made and how many meds they have had me try out, that I ended up not being able to take due to the awful side effects.

What I did finally find that helped me was that I was getting a lot of Artificial Sweeteners and MSG, daily. I was chewing packs of gum daily (thought it would help my nerves), and using artificial sweeteners in everything I would have put sugar in. Coffee, Tea, cereals, etc. And eating foods with MSG in it. I used Fish Sauce at times to amp up the flavors in my cooking as well as occasionally eating at Asian restaurants for family events as a treat.

I totally quit anything that included any kind of artificial sweeteners, including some vitamins that had them added. I read every label of anything I buy that will be consumed. The same thing with the MSG. Which almost everything that is ready made or manufactured as food, has MSG in it. Reading labels calls for researching what additives are actually MSG but listed as something else.

Long story short, luckily, I haven't had an episode since I've eliminated these things from my foods. It is shocking to me because everything and anything seemed to trigger episodes of horrible AFib and/or SVT. It makes me shudder to think how awful it is.

Stress creates AFib and SVT too. I'm still afraid it is going to happen. However, I recently went through 2 weeks of solid stress and also was stressed out from worrying about having an AFib attack. Luckily, this did not happen. So far, I'm AFib and SVT free.

I'm not claiming that I will never have it again, but I firmly believe that my body can now handle things better without these two poisons in my system.

I'm so sorry that you have this horrible condition to deal with. As so many of us do and have to live with the anxiety and fears.

I will update in the future and let everyone know if eliminating these chemicals works long term.

Best Regards,

Sadie

[jedimasterlincoln]

So presumably people who regularly raise their HR through exercise and cardio gym regimes are shortening their loves because they make their hearts beat faster?

[jedimasterlincoln]

I think its the other way round if anything. Cardioversion simply stops the abnormal rhythm at that moment. Ablation attempts to address the cause and reduce the risk of it reoccuring from the same area.