Menopause and a fib

[Sillysunshine]

I have just started getting hot flushes and night sweats. Who has tried hrt? Does it make the a fib worse? Or is anyone trying a natural product with success?

[Geonome]

Hi. Sillysunshine.I've been in menopause for 15 years. Have read reams of information on various natural products. Tried them all over the years, to no effect. The only thing that helps the menopause symptoms is hormone therapy. So, have been on HRT off and on for the whole 15 years. (I tried to go off at least 5 times). I've come to the conclusion that the only reason natural products would help is if they contain estrogen, but it would be an unknown and unregulated amount of estrogen. I'd rather take a medication that contains an exact amount.

My GP and gynecologists have reluctantly agreed to allow me to stay on the hormone therapy.

Sorry if this is TMI (too much information).

In answer to your second question, yes, I think it helps to control my afib.

Good luck. Menopause symptoms can be really difficult to cope with.

Geonome.

[Jay10 in reply to Geonome]

I find it does control my PAF, think hormones have a lot to do with AF.

[Gwersey in reply to Geonome]

Is that normal, menopause for 15 years? What I mean is, does it happen a lot or is it extremely rare? I started menopause at 47. Now, 15 years later I still get horrendous flushes and night sweats. They've worsened this past year when Afib was diagnosed.

[Geonome in reply to Gwersey]

Yes, I think it's normal. My dosage of estrogen is only 37.5 mg/via a patch, changed every 3 days. It controls my hot flushes and night sweats, and I sleep very well. That is, unless my afib kicks in.

My practice is to take as little as possible to manage your symptoms. The patch apparently is a lot safer than oral estrogens, in regards to causing breast cancer.

I've just cut chocolate out of my diet, and I haven't had an afib episode in 4 weeks. I was previously having an episode every week, at least. May be coincidence, maybe not.

So once my afib is relatively stable, I'll consider reducing my estrogen dosage further.

Geonome

[Gwersey in reply to Geonome]

Thanks for replying. It's made me decide to speak to my GP about trying HRT again on a low dose, unless it interacts with Bisoprolol.

[Geonome in reply to Gwersey]

I'm on a low dose of a beta-blocker as well, Metoprolol, and it doesn't interact with the hormone therapy. I also take oral progesterone to complement the estrogen, as I have not had a hysterectomy.

Geonome

[Auriculaire in reply to Geonome]

I have been on HRT for 25years! Since my hysterectomy in 2000 I have gradually reduced my oestrogen patch and now cut the 37.5 patch in half. They make a 25 mg patch as well.. I only change it once a week so I really am getting a minimum dose. I have tried doing without this but get terrible backache . There is an interesting Danish study done in 2012 which showed much improved health outcomes for women on 17 beta estradiol ( NOT the horse urine stuff used in most HRT studies). Less heart attacks,strokes and no increase in breast cancer . You can find a reference to it at thennt website in their overall negative assessment of HRT. The article also points out that women who go on HRT early on in or just after menopause have better outcomes than those who try it after a long gap.

[Jay10 in reply to Auriculaire]

Hi Auriculaire, I use Evorel 25 patches. They contain Estradiol 1.6 absorbtion rate 25 micrograms in 24hrs. I change them every 3 or 4 days.

[nikonBlue]

Hi there. I'm going to be the party pooper here and say no, don't start HRT. In 2015 I was found to have breast cancer which was hormone receptive meaning that my 15 or so years taking HRT had been feeding the cancer. Now that may sound very blunt but having been through all that I have in the last 3 years I'm passionate about discouraging women to start HRT. Discuss alternatives with your go. I myself am now on exemastane cancer prevention drug to stop my body producing the oestrogen in the hope it prevents recurrence. Sorry to be scaring but I truly believe that those years taking HRT is what caused my bc. Think long and hard before you start and as I say discuss alternatives with your go. I have had horrendous flushes over the last 3 years sometimes resulting in a complete change of clothes more than once a day so I'm the hot flush queen! Remember also that......real women don't have hot flushes, they have power surges!!!!

Take care

Blue 🌝

[fortunata in reply to nikonBlue]

This is a bit worrying. Did you take tablets or use patches? I’ve been using the lowest dose patch, one a week instead of two, for about five years. They’ve made my quality of life so much better.

[nikonBlue in reply to fortunata]

Hi, I was on Livial tablets, one a day. Jennydog has stated that her gp said it just delays the symptoms and that's true. That day I was told I had cancer I never took another HRT pill. Now with the cancer meds my bp meds and the "delayed" natural menopause, I feel I'm actually being given flushes, I mean power surges from like 4 directions! Very debilitating. My doctor recently put me on Fluoxetine as it sometimes helps with these awful symptoms so am hoping this might help. As I write this I am dripping, you have! Too much I oration....sorry!

Blue 🌝

[Auriculaire in reply to nikonBlue]

Livial or tibolone is not a natural HRT . It is a synthetic steroid and is actually classed in Canada as an anabolic steroid. It is not supposed to have an effect on breast tissue . Which is why it is prescribed . Some studies have found it greatly reduces the incident of breast cancer but others have found the complete opposite! You seem to have been very unlucky. I would never take any medication with fluorine in it such as Fluoxetine. Fluorine is one of the most poisonous elements on the planet and it is a scandal that it is put into umpteen medicines. I had my first and second afib attacks after being given a fluoroquinolone antibiotic - Cipro. I am still suffering many years later from tendonitis all over my body and some peripheral neuroneuropathy .

[Sillysunshine in reply to nikonBlue]

So sorry to hear you had breast cancer. This is why I am hesitant to try hrt. The flushes are terrible things being a woman is the pits sometimes.

[nikonBlue in reply to Sillysunshine]

yep,

sure is! Men actually have it easier I'd say! I don't mean to scare anyone but my own experience of HRT and Hormone receptive breast cancer tells me that it's a massive risk. But everyone will think differently and I'm sure there's lots of women out there who are taking HRT without anything happening. Just be aware of that risk is all I'm saying. As I said before, I'm the queen of the 'power surges'...every day , all day and night! Really hoping this new medication helps just a little.

I take Flecainide for my PAF and don't know about you but having a 'flush' can bring on an episode so I'm dealing with 2 things at the same time....not fun!!

stay well,

Blue

[Sillysunshine in reply to nikonBlue]

It must be hard for you to deal with your daily power surges. And the a fib on top. It would be very tiring for you. Hope everything improves for you in the future. Happy healing to you ❤️

[Auriculaire in reply to nikonBlue]

All HRTs are not alike. This is why there are different results from both RCTs and observational studies. Patch HRTs do not have to pass by the liver and smaller doses can be given. Whether or not you still have an intact womb and have to take a progestogen to protect against endometrial cancer also makes a difference. Which type of progestogen makes a difference. It seems that the standard Prempro as prescribed for donkey's years in America ( and which is the basis of the majority of studies) is particularly bad for both breast cancer and heart problems. To say nothing of the poor pregnant horses. Do you get side effects from the Flecainide? I have been wondering about asking for this as a PIP.

[nikonBlue in reply to Auriculaire]

hi,

to be honest I'm now on so many different meds for high bp, my Afib, thyroid and now the cancer medication and have issues coming from god knows where! I have awful bone pain and peripheral pain specifically in my hands and feet and I don't know what's to blame really. I've just turned 64 and off course have a touch of arthritis as would be expected though this has only just been confirmed. I therefor have no real idea what causes the side effects I get....and lets not forget the flushes!! 3 of the meds I take list hot flushes as a side effect.....great!!

stay well,

Blue

[Auriculaire in reply to nikonBlue]

Bone pain can be a sign of vit D deficiency . Most women our age are vit D deficient as in the UK it is impossible to get enough from the sun year round . I live in France and was still diagnosed 10 years ago despite spending lots of time outside gardening in very sunny weather - I burn easily so was not exposing enough skin. Older skin only makes one third the vit D of a young person. It is hard to get a vit D test on the NHS but I think worth while to get one done privately to see if you are very badly deficient. This is very important as research has shown that women who have high levels of vit D are less likely to get breast cancer and if they do get it are less likely to die from it or have a recurrence after treatment. So if your levels are low you need to start getting them up. I too take thyroid meds. Have you had the peripheral neuropathy since before the cancer? Cancer meds can bring this on. If you had it before you might look to see if you have at any time been treated with a fluoroquinolone antibiotic such as Ciprofloxacin, Levofloxacin etc. They can give delayed reactions similar to chemo. Best wishes - I hope you start feeling better when you complete your chemo.

[nikonBlue in reply to Auriculaire]

hi there,

the peripheral neuropathy started within a few wees of being on the medication after radiotherapy and as I said before it's awful on my hands and feet.

I take vit D3 as I was told that's the best to take at my age and because of the possibility of the meds affecting my bones. My bone density scan was good though that was 2 years ago. Am waiting on results from check up done last week. Never ending eh? To add to it all, my Afib is messing me around at the moment but I know it's most likely stress because I'm anxious about these results.

stay well,

Blue

[Auriculaire in reply to nikonBlue]

Hope your results are ok. PN is a real drag. I am lucky in that mine comes and goes and is not severe. Afib and anxiety is a vicious circle. How much D3 do you take? Some people need a lot more than others to keep their levels up. I need to take a lot more than my husband to achieve the same level - probably because I am a lot fatter than he is!

[jennydog]

I appreciate that things might be different now but I can tell you my experience, 20 years ago.

I had had cancer but it was not hormone- related, however I was concerned about HRT. My GP was wise and very experienced. I decided to seek his advice. He said " I do not recommend it. It just delays the symptoms."

PS later as I was interrupted.

I didn't go on it. The hot flushes are horrid and go on for years and years. I did discover that they're not as evident to other people as they feel at the time. Always carry a fan with you.

[Sillysunshine in reply to jennydog]

I have heard it just delays the symptoms it would be hard having flushes and night sweats in later years.

[Gwersey in reply to Sillysunshine]

I can tell you, it's awful!! I'm almost 62, have had flushes and night sweats every day for 15 years. And to cap it all, every time I get a hot flush it brings on a run of ectopic beats. Was on HRT but had to come off it after 5 years. I'd buy it on the black market if I could.

[Jay10]

I use the patches and have been on hrt for about 40 years after a hysterectomy at 33 and then an ovarian cyst at 44 . I did come off some years ago (had cryo 10 years ago) but found that the low dose keeps my heart happier. I have annual chat with GP and accept the risks. I am 75 by the way.

Jackie

[Sillysunshine in reply to Jay10]

Wow 40 years on hrt correct me if I am wrong but I thought women were only suppose to be on hrt for 5 years?

[Auriculaire in reply to Jay10]

What strength patch do you use? I have been on for 25 years now but only use half of the 37.5 patch and only change it once a week. I know if I have forgotten as I get awful backache!

[Jay10]

Because of a forced menopause due to my op I was put on it and stayed on it. In the 70s/80s there were no guide lines as to how long you took it for.

[Dinodog]

My afib started in periomenopause and came like clockwork before my monthly. I did a lot of reading about HRT but drew the conclusion that it can raise stroke risk, which i don’t want to do with afib. I’ve never been able to take bc pills as they always raised my blood pressure, so figured HRT would come with the same. Before doing it I would speak with a very knowledgeable doctor about your afib, overall health and hesrt burden, and how those things play into the decision. Best wishes.

[Sillysunshine in reply to Dinodog]

I could never take the pill either raised my bp up very high too. So I am thinking that hrt will raise my already high bp even higher. I think after reading all these responses I will try something natural. And carry a fan and water every where I go.

[PatWalsh010]

I am 64 and have been on HRT since my late 40's and extremely happy with it. Check out Menopause Matters website - there's loads of up to date information including the recent NICE guidelines. you can also write to Dr Currie - she heads up the MM site and is menopause specialist. she will give u very practical info and then ask your GP to refer you to menopause clinic for a chat.

You might decide not to bother and you might be lucky and the hot flushes will be your only problem. For some ladies that's as bad as it gets but there are many who suffer terrible life changing symptoms and usually end up on some inappropriate medication to get them through.

NikonBlue - I'm really, really sorry to hear about your experience and you were obviously one of the unlucky ones. It doesn't follow though that HRT will cause cancer in all of us. This is why it is so important for ladies to be referred to meno specialists to get the facts.

As regards my AFib I honestly think my HRT has been a real help. The Estrogen has such a calming effect overall that I think this is why I hav never suffered with any of the horrible symptoms some people seem to get with AFib.

My AFib was 'discovered' about 2009 and I wondered could it be the HRT? Nobody has ever suggested I come off it though thankfully. My brother also has AFib plus many other health issues and my Mam had heart problems (?) but also had an awful menopause which ended up electric shock treatment and a lifetime of heavy drugs.

Gather all the factual information you can and go from there and good luck 😉

PS my AFib progressed as expected and I have been in permanent AFib for last 2 yrs 🙄. I stopped my Bisoprolol abou 2 months ago as an experiment and I am so light limbed I could do a ballet dance 👀 Not a pretty sight. However this is only an experiment so might end up back on something yet but that's a subject for another thread.

Good luck Sillysunshine 😘