This may sound stupid? But I can’t find the answer anywhere.... how do I KNOW what is a ‘trigger’?
9 weeks ago I assumed that it was anything that started an episode of PAF IMMEDIATELY after, eating, drinking, or experiencing it. So I cut out spicy foods, caffeine & alcohol, ice cold drinks and stress ( well basically cannot work like this so ...stress be gone). NONE of this has made a difference to frequency or intensity so I gradually reintroduced 2 cups of tea a day and a glass of wine a couple of times a week. I no longer eat huge meals and am losing weight. I changed to Flecainide a week ago and since then the regularity, length and intensity of the episodes have become even worse.... so, am I missing the point? Do triggers have a DELAYED reaction?
& if they do, how on earth can we figure out what our own particular ones are???
Sorry for the length of this post ( again) but hopefully someone will be able to advise me? & just FYI I am not drinking alcohol. But willing to try anything to be able to get on with my life again.
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1ynno
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You sound like you may be new to AF. Every time you have an episode think about what you ate or drank before, also were you stressed. If you have any triggers you will soon discover what they are. Mine are mostly food/pill additives, particularly artificial sweeteners, colourings, Maltodextrin, stress and alcohol.
In reply to 1ynno. Same for me.My biggest trigger is stress-which IMO is the hardest thing in the world to control. Have been a "Type A-anxious person"all my life. If someone could bottle 'stress-anxiety' control, I believe they would be the richest person in the world. Got a pacemaker 2 years ago which,among other sx, has helped tremendously to banish those stressful tachycardic runs I used to get. I have developed a one-liner which serves me well when I need to leave a stressful situation: Before I walk away I say: "You're raising my pacemaker rate.Bye." How can anyone argue with that?
you could drive yourself crazy trying to find a trigger. They are different for everyone and sometimes you never know what.
Best thing is to try and avoid the known triggers, dont get stressed, eat healthily , exercise, plenty of sleep etc etc.
Triggers are very slippery things - every time you think you have them taped.........away they slip.
I found that if I moved after eating that was a trigger so I now stay in rest & digest mode for 30 mins and that worked! Now AF starts at night..........
Sorry to say this but you have AF therefore you will get AF. Triggers are not necessary.
You need a predisposition to AF which can be genetic or acquired (such as over exercise or binge drinking) but once you have it there is no logic to when or if you will have events.
Some people find that they can isolate a trigger such as alcohol or a specific food but others may never do so, My EP told me searching for triggers was the way to madness so I stopped. Obviously alcohol and any other stimulant which accelerates the heart can make it more likely that an event may start which is why so many of use decline these things but others may continue drinking with no ill effects.
There is increased evidence that being over weight contributes to one's AF burden and the tipping point seems to be a BMI of 25 or over which again is why many people find that a change of diet to less meat products and processed foods helps their AF burden.
The important thing is to accept that you have AF and find ways to live your life as full as possible regardless.
Hi Bob , you are so right, I drink very little and have a good regimen of food and sleep. My attacks come on during sleep and sometimes during the day. But have never had something to put my finger on as an exact trigger. Unfortunately I blame my DNA.☹️
I know you already know that's the wrong way to lose weight! You may be on meds and, if so, tho necessary they deplete your body of all sorts of vitamins, minerals, electrolytes. Supplements can help give your body nutrients but the best way is to supply it with healthy, real (meaning not very processed) food. Take care. And also drink enough water!
I am on potassium and magnesium but you are right, 30kgs difference will help i'm sure.
I initially had a drip then refused to take amiodarone tablets. i Have sotalol just in case but really have only had a few seconds of afib and/or PVC since the initial episode.
Jim, I'm almost 67 and my first attack was 7 years ago. I am very conscience of my weight at 74 kilos (5ft7ins) i regard my self as in a safe range. I do sometimes wake up tired , but I am told by my partner that I don't snore of grind my teeth and generally sleep well, like today I fell great. But in a tickling of an eye I can have an attack. I can get an attack once a week for a month , then nothing for a year. So my favorite saying is "go figure"
I agree. Sometime you may be in permanent AF (I am) and it is possible to live very comfortably and safely in this state. The key is rate control. Don't obsess over triggers. Even if you identify some, my belief is you will never figure out all of them. For me, now, with a good treatment plan in place I feel AF is not that much of a problem for me. Just another chronic illness to deal with. Hope you get to a comfortable place with your AF. Take care. irina
Oh yes ... the search to identify triggers, in order to remove them, is a familiar pursuit!
Everyone has given great advice and perspectives. I’d just add that a consistent potential trigger for me and many others is dehydration. And it feels to me that if I’m dehydrated, the other potential triggers (eg positional, or artificial additives) can have more effect than if I’m well hydrated. (Though don’t go crazy and massively over-hydrate either! Messes up our electrolyte balance.)
Similarly, doing regular deep breathing and finding some way to gain an inner peace (be it prayer, mindfulness, meditation etc) can reduce or even prevent the power of triggers, in my experience.
Exactly! When it first happened to me i'd been working 96hrs and didn't realise how dehydrated i was until ICU where i drank a good 6 litres in an hour. My potassium levels were low normal.
Positional when i lie on my left side, or particularly flop onto my left side starts it off.
Hi! 1 month before my first PAF (vagal?) I had a visit at neurogist due some strange headaches. All test were fine. She wrote that my" trapesious are very tense" and I should start PT asap, masagges and take some Valium before sleep. Wow!!! Normally I didn't take this advice so serious before PAF episode. I am now more than sure I failed to prevent my vagal PAF. Now, I add magnesium, kalium, walking, cycling, headspace, from time to time even valium to have a good sleep, etc. and feeling much, much better.
All of these answers probably impact the nerves that the brain uses to control the heart; yet, no one here has mentioned what speciality deals with these nerves - chiropractors. I have obsessed over all the triggers and have only had long term improvement with chiropractic adjustments. Until you are certain that your sympathetic and parasympathetic nerves are healthy and functioning properly, my guess is you will always have AF or palpitations. Look at the recent post of a few days ago called AF no cure.
Yesterday, my heart was throwing lots of extra beats for no apparent reason, which is unusual. So I hooked myself up to my EKG recorder and played around with minor neck movement. Over a thirty minute time frame, I could easily, instantly and consistently start and stop extra beats; and, the charts were the proof. I lowered and raised my head and turned it about 20 degrees to the left, and the extra beats would stop; and if I lowered my head and turned it to the right, the extra beats would start. I tried this while laying down and same thing happened. Now most times, if I have extra beats while laying down, just standing right away will stop them. Leaving them too long, or getting them while sleeping, will cause AF, but less so now.
Chiropractic adjustments have changed what movements and positions affect my heart. I have known for a long time that moving my back in several ways; such as, rolling my shoulders will often stop extra beats. Pressure on my back from a chair or in the car seat would start extra beats; and then AF, if I did not remove the pressure right away. This does not happen very often now. Hopefully, the chiropractic treatments will fix me eventually. What heart misbehaviour would start AF seems to have changed and my heart will now tolerate more so called "triggers" than early in my AF experience. It has not been a carefree ride but measurable improvements sure help tolerate it. Today, I don't have any extra beats, which is more the norm of late. Chiropractic adjustments can change this though. But that I am learning is the downside of gradual improvement.
Unfortunately, my chiropractor has never helped anyone cure AF and I don't have anyone to ask about what to do. So without a recipe for success, it is not unreasonable that the road less travelled has its challenges.
I don't take any drugs so I don't know what their impact could do to interfere with the perceived effect of chiropractic adjustments.
Nevertheless, maybe what I have learned will help someone.
I am curious about the chiropractic aspect. Didd you find that overall the adjustments created more ectopic beats, or, that if you now have adjustments this tends to start the ectopic song and dance routine?
Really helpful, EngMac. Thank you.I haven't been to a chiro, but I have noticed that how I sit while working at a computer affects my beats. I also notice that doing a yoga video targeting the neck/back helps.
This is a great point. I suspect for me it was also related to the neck-perhaps slight slipping forward of the cervical discs. I had a shaky arm and weakness which happens to me now and then after a neck injury in rugby many many years ago. I put a cuff neck extensor on and pumped it up and immediately the shaking and weakness stopped.
Whether its the discs or the tight muscles(scalenes) protecting the discs and squeezing the vagal nerve. The other nerve is the Phrenic nerve which when i talk too much and too long i begin to feel Afibbish.
You might want to check out drjohnbergman.com He is a chiropractor with (for me) many good videos about all sorts of medical probs and their relation to the spine. I've read his AF tape which I found interesting and am now trying some suggestions re knee probs to help avoid surg and knee pain. I have no connection with him and, in fact, got info re his website from one of my forums here. Hope this helps.
I have no answer to what would trigger your AF episodes. I have had AF since 2006 and started out on Toprol XL, but still have 3-5 episodes per year. Some would last all day, while others lasted 3-5 hours. I thought that alcohol triggered it, so gave it up, although I really did not drink much at all. Just beer and wine, but very little. My doc retired and another doc put me on Flecainide 100mg twice daily. Have not had a single AF episode since then, which has been 30 months ago. I eat decently and sanely. Get plenty of rest. I am 76. Stay active. Wish you luck with AF.
Hi I have given up alcohol and caffeine as advised but here we are 5 days out of 7 I'm in AF, see my cardiologist next week to press for ablation which I have been waiting for a year
My triggers are pressure on my heart, from bloating, working above head height, chest problems, also diarrhoea. That does not mean I always get AF under those circumstances though, so I suspect other factors affect it as well. But I never get AF without at least one of those being involved. Knowing this doesn't help me much as those 'triggers' are part of every day life!
I have now been reading this forum for about ten months, every morning. I've seen lots and lots (and lots) of posts looking for triggers. Some people even think they have found theirs, but then are later disappointed. I've given up looking, although I still have some suspicions.
Basically, it's not about triggers, we all look to place blame if we can. We are not to blame, and nothing/no-one is. It just happens to some people.
You know, there may and I mean just may be an easy cure for AF. I'll never give up looking (always in a calm way), but don't obsess about my AF now that it's no big problem andI understand it more. We should never bury our heads and give in to it.
Try magnesium. Taurent and citrate. Or a combination ... Dr. Sinatra US ... smaller meals helps me ... powdered vitamin c ... squid oil ... Dr. Sinatra ... adequate sleep helps me ... l have had two episodes in one year ... fish twice per week ... less alcohol helps ... l take a ton of supplements ... seems helpful ... l take a powdered magnesium,
Hi Plantwords. The ectopic beats can change as a result of chiropractic adjustments. In most cases, the treatments reduce or eliminate them for awhile. One thing I noticed is an adjustment can make them worse for an hour or two or maybe even a day and then they disappear for a bit again. Apparently, this is typical of an adjustment not only for this but also for any injury being corrected using chiropractic techniques. The chiropractor moves the joint, the brain says "what happened" and moves it back. The goal is to train the brain to not tell the muscles to move it back. And eventually the brain learns; and if an external injury does not take place, the brain will keep things in their new position.
I suspect that you know how difficult it is for the brain to learn something new after it has been having reasonable success doing what it has been doing. Just ask your wife or husband, or whatever a partner is called today, how fast your brain responds to suggested corrections. Garbage - oh is it garbage day!
I have had AF since 2015 and I have not found any triggers. The doctors initially told me caffeine and alcohol I initially gave both up (well decaff tea and coffee which still does contain some caffeine). I did not miss the caffeine but did miss the alcohol/ social drinking so restarted in a more restrained mode. Initially I did sometimes get carried away and exceed my limits but did not get AF. I analysed the days I got AF and the majority were Thursdays followed by Sunday evening/Monday morning None/ low drinking days( I do not drink in the week and not much on a Sunday as I have a long work commute). I even considered a lack of alcohol mayvcause it (being silly)
I suspected stress but was advised by doctor that stress does not cause AF but if you have AF " it won't help" .But one of my worst AF attacks was when I was on holiday hen I was clearly not stressed. I have had periods of quite high stress and not got AF!
I run and cycle but I am not and never have been an endurance athlete.
I am a bit overweight but not my that much.
My first Ever AF attack was after scoffing a lasagne, but have never since had an attack after eating.
Only once has AF started whils lying in bed. I was on my back. I have tried initiating attacks by lying on left/back/front (normally sleep on right) no effect.
I have tried (and still on) magnesium internal and transdermal to prevent it.
Ha. I know what you mean. I got diagnosed in March, and spent a few months teetotal, caffeine free, and doing only mild exercise. I had AF 3 times in 3 months. I then went to a music festival in June, where I drank solidly for 5 days and nights, and didn't have any AF again until September.
After that I resolved to live as healthy lifestyle as I could, without worrying too much about triggers, but without living like a monk.
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