AF triggers

[Mrsvemb]

I wrote this as a reply to another post but decided that it would just be hijacking the original post, so started a new one.

I definitely have triggers for AF. Anything that my body doesn’t like will trigger AF. I have a very difficult diet. I am intolerant to gluten, dairy and soya. If I have any of those, then I will get AF.

Apart from that alcohol, aspartame, caffeine and even caffeine free coffee will trigger AF.

Recently, I have been in AF 50% of the time. As I am intolerant to most of the meds prescribed for AF, my cardiologist told me to double my dose of Nebivolol for up to 48 hours which did convert me to NSR. This occurred a few times in June. The higher dose made me feel really unwell with nausea and breathlessness.

I now believe that I have become intolerant to Nebivolol and it’s triggering AF. I have just yesterday changed back to Bisoprolol which I had to stop 3 years ago. It will take a week to clear my system of Nebivolol, but I hope to feel much better when it does.

I have asked my cardiologist to refer me to Mr Steven Hunter for a mini maze. I do have an element of private healthcare. No point wasting my time with ablation, because I need to be able to stop the meds including anticoagulants.

[Finvola]

I'm sorry you are going through such difficulties with the miseries of AF and everything connected with it, Mrsvemb and hope that the mini maze procedure will be the answer for you.

Best wishes.

[Mrsvemb in reply to Finvola]

Thank you. 🤞 fingers crossed

[Autumn_Leaves]

I’m not sure you can stop taking anticoagulants after having this procedure. It maybe well be an option if you have no other risk factors but maybe some of the people who have had it might be able to offer a better informed opinion. The other factor is how likely is this procedure likely to be a one-and-done solution? Is it realistic to expect to be AF -free permanently and off all medication forever or is there a likelihood of recurrence? If you can meet with the surgeon it would be ideal, as are the experiences of others who have been through the same.

[Mrsvemb in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Part of this procedure is to clip off the Left Atrial Appendage, which is where blood pools when you have AF. By clipping it off the risk is removed. I know that. mummyLuv has stopped taking anticoagulants.

Of course, I will ask the surgeon a lot of questions. I have also read with interest about not only MummyLuv’s experiences, but also others on the forum who have had this procedure.

It may be that I am not a suitable candidate to have this done. Only time will tell.

[Autumn_Leaves]

I was aware that clipping the left atrial appendix was to minimise the blood pooling and risk, but didn’t realise that it meant people could stop anticoagulants. It may well be totally the best thing for you. It’s all about the individual and weighing up the risks and benefits of one treatment against another and it’s never easy when it’s your heart, is it?

[Mrsvemb in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

No it’s not easy. I can’t tolerate any of the medication, so a big problem. I am only on Bisoprolol and Dabigatran, but I don’t feel well taking either of these. Can’t tolerate anything else.

I have had all of the anticoagulants , including warfarin and after a couple of months, they caused severe nausea. At one time I was alternating between dabigatran and Apixaban until I couldn’t take Apixaban at all.

Unfortunately, all of the anticoagulants cause hair loss for me, dabigatran is the worst by a long way, but I know I have to take it.

[Thomas45]

I can't take the DOACs, but am fine on Warfarin. My AF has been permanent, though largely asymptomatic, for the last 7+ years. I recognised that soya and coffee, but not caffeine, were triggers. Although my AF is permanent I've stayed off both those triggers to avoid my AF being exacerbated. I do eat very dark chocolate, occasionally, which has small quantities of soya lecithin as an ingredient, which does not appear to have any effect on my AF.

[Mrsvemb in reply to Thomas45]

Interesting. I would think coffee and soya are quite unusual. Nice to know I am not alone in this. Sorry for you though.

[Thomas45 in reply to Mrsvemb]

I've not had either in the last 16 years. I happily drink tea and fruit/herb teas.

[Mrsvemb in reply to Thomas45]

I haven’t found a fruit tea that I like. I do drink peppermint tea. Normal decaf tea is my go to with breakfast, but I have to have either rice milk or oat milk in it. Not great. I mainly drink water now.

[CDreamer]

By far the largest group of triggers are stress both physical and psychological which causes inflammation. I couldn’t tolerate any of the medications, especially Bisoprolol in fact have a Red Alert on my medical file as if causes harm. So many posters here find medications cause more problems than the AF, I felt much better without for the 50% of the time I wasn’t in AF when I stopped all meds maintaining that why would you take something that decreased your quality of life 100% of the time when in AF it only decreased it 50% of the time.

I have always maintained that we all react very differently and that AF is not like a cancer which can be treated. AF is a complex condition, often but not always more of a symptom than a disease.

Thankfully I found my silver bullet - in 2018 my last remaining option offered for help was Pace and Ablate and I was at that point when although it was not a step I wanted to take, I’d do virtually anything to try get a life back. Pacemaker was inserted and from that moment I felt better, so much so I didn’t go ahead with the AV node ablation.

I think mini-maze offers hope to many that may not benefit from other options and that on the whole, medications cause as many problems long term as benefits to many people so I wish you best of luck.

As to food and beverages triggers, I believe I learned from my experiences is that when your heart is in this high alert state and primed to go into AF, that your whole body is extra sensitive so things you might have tolerated in earlier life suddenly you can’t. It’s as if the sensitivity dial has been turned up. That was certainly the case for me prior to PM implant. Now it seems those ‘triggers’ I avoided don’t bother me, although I still am careful and use moderation in all things.

My experience was that eliminating all triggers did not eliminate AF but eliminating AF from my life did eliminate the grief all the things that my food triggers were causing.

Hope your assessment goes very well and you can find your silver bullet.

[Fullofheart in reply to CDreamer]

Really interested to read this. I hadn't thought too much about the recursive nature of the relationship between the triggers and the AF. Makes a lot of sense to me and fits with my experience of food and medication allergies...some triggered BY AF and some triggering OF AF. And meds that have triggered food allergies POST AF. Thanks for sharing this.

[Mrsvemb in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you. Ooh to be able to stop the medication. That is my aim. I am sure that it would change my life.

[secondtry]

You probably have covered this already, but if not if I I was in your shoes I would be talking to one or two Alternative Practitioners to try to identify why your body is so sensitive. It may be largely genetic but if you can identify a 30% 'cure' that would I am sure help on AF and other matters in the future.

[CDreamer in reply to secondtry]

And maintaining NSR after treatment.

[Mrsvemb in reply to secondtry]

No I haven’t covered this. My aim is to try and stop the AF, then hopefully the triggers won’t be relevant.

[secondtry in reply to Mrsvemb]

Mmmm...my conclusion after 10 years since AF diagnosis and learning a lot from this group is that you have to address both, how to stop the AF AND the triggers.

[Brandue]

Clipping the left atrial appendage will reduce your chance of a stroke by 97%. Taking a blood thinner will only reduce it by 60%. Also, the left atrial appendage can be an afib trigger since there can be erattic signals coming from there. When they clip it they disconnect it so, if you are getting afib from that area you will eliminate it by clipping it.

[Mrsvemb in reply to Brandue]

That sounds good to me. I just have to hope that I am suitable for the surgery

[CDreamer in reply to Mrsvemb]

Just be aware that recent research has demonstrated this has not worked for everyone and a fair % of people have had to go back onto anticoagulants following clipping of the atrial appendage. There is still a lot to be learned about who is a suitable candidate for this procedure, dependant upon not only medication intolerance but also personal physiology. I'll see if I can find the research findings for you, it was a US study, fairly recent.

[geepo1]

Finding triggers is ongoing, I worked out fluoride as a definite, usually 2 hours after cleaning my teeth. I now use charcoal toothpaste which has a natural fluoride, and , of course, the mammy of them all - ethanol , not only in alcohol but also some cough medicine, Adrenalin, some chocolate, ( unfortunately ), smokey atmosphere as in burning wood, joss sticks even air fresheners. I also have causes like pressure on my diaphragm .

It seems all sorts of medication can cause AF as a side effect, even those given to help us. Keep reading this forum helps, probably more than doctors when it comes to triggers. Good luck with your quest Mrsvemb.

[Mrsvemb in reply to geepo1]

Yes I agree this forum is more informative than doctors. Alcohol is a definite trigger for me. Not had a drink for over 12 years now. Always say no adrenaline at the dentist too. Never had cough medicine. If I get a cold, I make up some honey and lemon drink.

We are all different when it comes to triggers.

[RoyMacDonald]

My arrhythmia has improved a lot since I switched to a vegan diet. Rarely get any incidents of SVT now. My BP is much lower as well. I'm only on Apixaban. I'm 79.

All the best.

Roy

[Mrsvemb in reply to RoyMacDonald]

That’s really good news. Long may it continue. I am intolerant to dairy, it triggers AF so I guess I do have some vegan products. In the main, I am not keen and I feel like I am missing out. Don’t think I could go entirely vegan.

[RoyMacDonald]

I don't buy any vegan products as I am suspicious of what's in them. I only buy vegetables, seeds and nuts that I eat raw. I drink Matcha green tea (it has low levels of caffeine) and eat 100% dark chocolate as a treat. I guess my diet wouldn't suit everyone. I keep very active though.

All the best.

Roy

[Mrsvemb]

No your diet wouldn’t suit me. I do like a variety of different foods and try to eat healthy foods, but life without fish, chicken and some lean meat wouldn’t be worth living for me.