My husband has AF he is 52. He has been on Amiodarone and apixaban for some time, he was also on Warfarin in between Ablations to fix AF and Flutter, he has had 2 ablations and 2 cardioversions. Our health fund HCF (australian) has refused any further attempts to fix the AF. His latest visit to the cardiologist has recommended he go off the Amiodarone and onto Diltiazem CD 180mg daily. He has mild depression especially after each proceedure only sticks in sinus rhythm for a few days then back into AF. We have been told that there are natural cures for AF, eg; lose weight keep fit etc, has anyone had any success with seeing a naturopath for this condition? I am very worried about the long term affects of these drugs hes on. Should I be?
Curing AF naturally?: My husband has AF... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Curing AF naturally?
I live in Australia I have had 7 cardio versions and am having an ablation on the 28th can't understand how they can refuse further treatment if it is needed hope you get sorted soon
We haven't challenged it yet as hes quietly relieved he won't be going through it again. But I agree, we've been with this fund for 23 years. Time for a change I think!
Be wary about changing because of all the "related" things a new company could exclude.
After resisting drugs I am on Diltiazen and Pradaxa for blood thinner. I have been told I Am in permanent AF . I am ok being on these drugs now ...... I was never offered an ablation and they are not keen here to offer ablation after ablation as seems the British are somehow able to receive . I feel able to swim 50 laps and exercise fine so it does not really bother me... I also take Hawthorne and had some success for a while with acupuncture. I have a job that is stressful at times and Inthink that can affect things also wine can make it more pronounced. I have had long talks with my cardiologist and EP and I have just kind of settled into having this and it is ok and not really affecting my lifestyle so now not letting the mind get caught up in story's just have kind of accepted it after like 12 years..... I think losing some weight and eating healthy, exercising like walking an swimming and mediation and prayer seem to really help a lot ......my cardiologist said the same thing as your husbands ....it seems you have to weigh out the risks vs the benefits is how I understood it.... Maybe risks is not the correct language more like putting the body through something when in the cardiologists opinion it is not really going to cure it......it seems to work for many people and for many others they go through multiple procedures and it does not. Maybe ask your cardiologist what makes him think it will not work in your husbands case. Good luck to you both...Also could work with nutrionist and should definitely be taking 400 of coenzyme q10. L Carnitine and D Ribose I think that is common knowledge in heart research circles the known benefits are proven
Perhaps your husband should ask his Dr about Flecinide. Very effective in restoring sinus rhythm. Don't underestimate magnesium. Also, if his AF is vagal the Valsalver maneuver is good, (google it) It appears every case of AF is different so good luck with it all.
Be careful with Flec. It doesnt carry a black box warning for nothing. Many are put on this only after being monitored and admitted for a night. For many, if the AV node is not treated with a rate control med, Flec can be fatal.
I have taken Flecainide as a Pip for 10years and then daily for 8years.I have only had 2 PAF episodes whilst taking it daily and put back in sinus rhythm by cardioversion..
Everyone is different but it's suited me.
Ate you sure you're thinking if the right drug? Flec is used very commonly here (US) without hospitalization for monitoring. It's almost the first drug of choice to see if it stops AF.
I live in the US and flecainide was first given to me in an overnight stay due to an emergency visit to hosp for afib. On an earlier visit with the doc, he told me that flec is first given in the hospital with a 200mg dose. They want to monitor the heart to be sure that all is well with that size dose. My prescription after leaving the hospital, was 50 mg.
Ah, that must be the difference... The high dose.
At 50mg twice daily, I had little issue, however it did not keep me in NSR. When it was increased to 100mg twice, I had violent reactions to it and weaned off in 3 months.
Am I correct in that Flecainide is sometimes referred to as a dirty drug? I think the possibility of nasty side effects is the reason for hospitalization/testing at 200 mg, before beginning any regimen. After one week of 50 mg I had to have an EKG to make sure all was well. Needed another EKG one week after increasing the dose to 75 mg.
Hi Tinaleena, sorry to hear about your husband's condition.
I think you are correct to be worried about the long term use of Amiodarone as it is a 'dirty' drug and usually only used short term, as far as I understand. I believe you always have to balance the risks : the benefits regarding any treatment and as treatment for AF is about quality of life, as it is not considered a life threatening condition (barring stroke risk for which the Wafarin is prescribed) then he would have to ask himself 'would I be better with or without?'. You don't say if the Amiodarone is stopping the AF, but I am assuming that as you say he only stayed in NSR for a few days after ablation then he is in persistent AF - in which case why take the Amiodarone would be my question if it is not stopping the AF?
Many people stay in AF permanently and live functional lives as they get used to the AF. If in fast AF a rate control drug can help reduce the heart rate and that seems to be the recommended route in the UK for people in fast AF, although I am no medic and you would need a Doctor's guidance. No further treatment doesn't mean no treatment I assume, just nothing more than they believe can be offered to stop the AF, that does happen for some unfortunately.
As to your question about 'cure' by natural methods, some people have reported that they no longer suffer AF episodes of paroxysmal AF after following a plant based diet, losing weight and exercise, which in any case can't make things worse. But I have not heard of anyone have that result with persistent or permanent AF - but please correct me if anyone out there has.
Many people find Magnesium supplements work for them and say they have stopped their episodes but I never heard of anyone with persistent AF have a 'cure' - but who knows? If they had, they may no longer stick around this forum.
I can't see that visiting a Naturapaths would hurt and may do some good, but dismiss any ideas of a 'cure'. Think instead of how to improve quality of life, what can you do and what are you prepared to do are often differently therefor, my view is that whatever you think or would like, it is your husband who should be asking these questions as if you go along the natural route, it really does need to come from him.
My very best wishes CD.
You surely need to establish if further treatment is being refused on medical grounds or because of the cost. Losing weight might help if weight needs to be lost, but slim, fit people get AF just like everyone else. Some may have asked too much of their hearts, but AF can affect those who have looked after themselves over the years and never put on the pounds.
Yes, the long term effects of drugs are a worry, but not treating AF is risky too. AF may be a pain but it's also a call to living healthily and being prudent. Probably everyone would benefit from the type of lifestyle we're forced to adopt.
I was slim when I was first diagnosed with paroxysmal AF, the weight came later, they tried flec with me in hospital, but it didn't work, I was prescribed Sotalol, and asprin(back in 2000/2001) was on them until this year, when my paroxsysmal af appears to have become persistent/permanent af. I am currently using bisoprolol, apixaban and digoxin, I am waiting to see the cardiologist, which wont be until November :-S, if it makes any difference I get worse from doing things that require energy, and it makes me feel quite ill, I do have a dodgy mitral valve which prolapses as and when it pleases.
I have had no more noticeable AF since I lost
I have no more AF since I lost about 50 lbs. It was hard losing it and keeping my weight down. But the huge relief from absence of AF gives me the incentive. It is noe 2 years since I had AF
I would add to my last post that the fear of having to take amiodarone again also gave me the incentive to keep my weight down.
Previously I tried many diets with no long term effect until I tried the 5/2 one and that one worked for me and it also helped my COPD a lot
Just to add to the above comments, ALL treatment for AF is only about improving quality of life (QOL) as technically there is no cure. Many people find that they improve QOL by life style changes as has been suggested but there is no magic bullet. I also agree that if your husband is in persistent AF then taking rhythm control drugs is a complete waste of time. Rate control will help to minimise symptoms and reduce the burden on the heart and again has been mentioned many people with permanent AF live normal and productive lives.
Hi
I do hope your husbands feels better soon 🌺
Just to say i was diagnoised with PAF a few months ago since then i completly changed my lifestyle
I looked at my diet and ate mostly foods and drinks that were medicine for my body ..
. This was a life changer for me i not only lost weight but look and feel great now
I looked at all the triggers in my life work stress diet and changed it for the better
Took to yoga
I turned to herbal medicine found a great doctor who now practises as a naturopath in london
I also found a great cardiologist in america on line that has great information on AF
His name is Dr John Day his great and he too talks about changing lifestyles ...just type in Dr john day and AF blog
i do hope all the information you receive from this site can help you and your husband on a positive journey In discovering great ways in looking and feeling better 🌺
He's my doctor here (US) and really knows his stuff. He walks the talk, too. Has a weekly blog and podcast with local news that are always informative and interesting. He's done over 4,000 ablations, too, and I'm one of his successes! Always includes a heart healthy recipe with the blog.
Please tell me what herbal medicines you use. I am thinking of adding Motherwort . For my depression my GP put me on Wellburtin which gave me palpitations so I'm looking for a herbal antidepressant. I would appreciate any info. Thanks
It may be best to steer clear of St John's Wort, Salty, as it does not get on well with some medications. Warfarin is one of them.
Hi
I went to a herbaist very important because many herbs
Could interact with yiur medicines
I am not on medicines therefore use ginger curcuma juiced with apples
For antiinflammatory antioxidants effects
I use withnania lemon balm for stress
St johns wort seems to have alot if studies done on depression and mood lifting
Need to have a consultaton first with a herbalist or like 🌺
Also look at the blog of Dr John Mandrola.
I was insured with AHM. They refused to pay for the ablation for 12 months because they called it heart surgery and I wasn't covered. So I had to change my cover and wait the 12 months. But I don't see how they can make the decision. It is your EP who decides whether an ablation is worthwhile or not and then the insurance company takes his advice on the value of the ablation?
I’ve found that regular exercise is essential. I was on amiodarone for quite a few years and it made me feel terrible most of the time and I understand it can have serious long term effects. I live in the states and am now on a drug called Tykosin which has no side effects I’m aware of and keeps me in sinus rhythm most of the time. Some people can’t take it, however, and you must be hospitalized when first given the drug to see if you are one of them. In my case it stopped a two week episode, and I haven’t had a sustained one since.
Trish, I'm also in the US and have been considering going on this new drug and getting off of Flecanaide because of the side effects particularly fatigue. We're you on another drug before trying this one? Thanks , Gracey
I had been on just about everything. Tykosin ( or Dolfedilide) was like the last resort. I’d already had three ablations, and they were suggesting open heart surgery to correct a leaky valve which was getting worse. After about a year of being on Tykosin, my heart had been in sinus rhythm so much of the time that the valve began to heal and is now much better. I’ve now been on it for about 2 years and feel great. I would certainly ask your doc about it.
Good luck.
Trish.
Which valve?
Tina, the short answer is , Yes with several asterisks. It can be challenging and very scary at times to give up the allopathic route and go natural. It also takes longer as Meds are the synthetic chemical of plants and herbs with the potency to work on demand while supplements such as Magnesium can take up to a year to build to desired levels.
As with any change I always highly recommend a trained professional and bi yearly serum testing before starting any supplement.
I quit all meds including OTCs for AF over 2 years ago and after 3 episodes that were self converted on different things including acupuncture, I have been AF free. I too had gone thru 7 cardioverts. Its all about risk/reward. Meds not only have short term negative side effects, but unseen ones that can eventually be very negative for our older years. Some meds we need and I am not opposed to those where natural doesnt seem to work. But for the heart, these meds are usually some of the strongest and dangerous, it is our ticker after all.
Cardios tell us all the time, Its not your heart thats the issue , its a rhythm issue. Then they go on to treat and impact our hearts. Makes no sense to me. Regards
hwkmn, I've also tried many natural supplements for my PAF but I haven't given up my conventional medicine. I would love to dump it all but am too afraid. I have to say hats off to you for your courage. Can you tell us what you are taking and if you are on an anticoagulant? Thanks, Gracey
Gracey, Im all about finding the root cause for every condition. Im am in no way for simply tossing meds and dont consider myself courageous for doing so. I was one of the unlucky ones who could not handle meds for this condition having severe reactions. Not to mention, they never worked to keep me NSR. I have been told by both cardios and ND an anticoag is not needed at this time, however I believe some supplements may offer a "thinning" effect such as Mag, fish oil, Niacin, and Nattokinase. For me however, the magic pill seemed to be a daily high dose of Vit C. which rid me of those pesky PACs weekly. That was prescribed as AF seemed to occur when I was feeling ill. Which leads me to believe that inflammation could be the connection. I had my first episode of AF less than a year after a root canal. That may come out this year and if that was it, hooray, but we never can be certain.
Check our SRMGrandma's posts on here. She is a nurse in the us and has has had a lot if success with lifestyle changes.
@Tinaleena As far as I know and as far as any electrophysiologists know you cannot cure afib. If you have it, then you have it. the thing is that there are a multituDE OF CAUSES
For example 1) a genetic polymorphism (slight change) in a COMT gene causes afib. This gene controls the enzyme that breaks down dompamine, epinephrine,and noreepinephrine--3 neurotransmitters. I have a polymorphism (underfunctioning) of this gene, from both parents (stronger affect than if from 1 parent)--
This means my body does not break down these neurotranmitters as much as it should. This is great for brain function but bad for afib. As a result, when I go to a dentist I insist that he not use epinephrine (in the USA epinephrine is included in novacain because the epi stops excessive bleeding). This means I do not use any supplement or drug thqt has epinephrine, of an effect of raising these 3 neurotransmitters.
the last time a dentist used novacaine/epinephrine my entire body was shanking and my heart rate was not regular. At that time I did not know I had afib ---I had shown my dentist my genetic tests, as the geneticist who I consulted told me all my doctors should read them, but HE DID NOT READ THEM AND REFUSED TO TAKE THEM INTO ACCOUNT.
You can have your dentist use something called Carbocaine, which is basically novacaine without epinephrine. If the dentist tells you his aspiration skills are so excellent this does not matter and your husband can have epinephrine-- tell hijm he is stupid and find another dentist. (Aspiration skills means he injects the novacaine without getting it into a vein and he has been taught in dental school that this will not have a systemic effect. However the teachers in dental school are not electrophysiologists. and this is not true for afib people.) Tell a dentist you see that you do not work for him he works for you!!
2) Magnesium deficiency- is a huge cause of afib. Even if you have a "healthy" diet. if the soil the food was grown in, grass the cows ate etc. are deficient in magnesium so is your diet.
I assume since you are in Australia all your animal protein is free range, grass fed grass finished. If you use beta blcokers, anti arrythmia drugs, hydrochlorathiazinde diuretic for hypertension-- then these meds deplete your body of magnesium, co enzyme Q, zinc, most vitamins and trace minerals. Since I take 40 mg. of sotalol ( a combo beta blocker/ antiarrythmia drug) I a take about 600 mg. of magnesium daily in 3 divided doses with meals BUT separate from the sotalol or warfarin use because the magnesium will bind to these meds and neither the meds nor the magnesium will be working. The magnesiums I use are : Magnesium L-threonate which passses the blood brain barrier, magnesium taurate, magnesium glycinate, and a Country Life target mins which has 250mg of many kinds of magnesium, 250 mg of many kinds of calcium, 125 mg. of many kinds of phosphorus and 40 1.2 mg of 2 kinds of potassium.
3) Raw goat milk
4) whole A-2 (european cows) yougurt or whole sheep yogurt.
5)Organic berries- 1-2 cups a day (tart cherries and sweet cherries blueberries--excellent)
6) weight training, tai chi, meditation, qi gong, opera and classical music-good effect on heart rate
7) Hike/walk in woods various trails -difficulty based on health/ability.
8) Whey protein shke--make sure nothing in there will hurt you such as sugar (get one with stevia), caffeine, casein, potassium asculfate, sucrolose ( sucrolose is an artificial sweetener that is part beet sugar, part cane sugar and a carcinogen) ,
9) Enough protein-- grass fed beef , bison, ostritch, salmon ( frozen wild caught), eggs of free range chickens,
10) veggies-brocolli, carrot, greens etc.
11) Get tested for allergies as your allergens will cause inflammation which triggers afib
12) Sugar is an afib trigger.
12) inflammation is a trigger
12) Soime people have genetic tendencies to manufacture too many inflammotory cytokines.
13) As per my gentic polymorphism test panels from Genova Diagnostics in 2007. I had a cardiovascular/cancer risk panel, an immune function panel, and detoxification function panel.
This showed that I have 5 MTHFR under functioning( only 40% works-has to due with folare)--so what do I do??? I take reduced folate, methylated B12 and 5P5 form of B6--the product I use is called "B-Right" by Jarrow.
14) as per the gentic thing with the inflammation in # 12 aboive-- I produce excessive Interleukin 1 beta, excessive Tumor Necrosis alpha, and some other thing I don't off the top of my heqad recall the name of.
These cause huge anounts of COX 2,and LOX 5 (very nasty things) and which dowmn the line produce too much MMP's (matrix metalloproteinases--even more nasty)- these things cause afib, and eat your collagen which basiclaly are the glues thqat hold all your cells togethere, including the cells of the heart muscles.
So what can I do about this?
Gusess what ??? there exist 2 very excellent NATURAL COX 2 and LOX 5 inhibitors.
These have been used for thousands of years in Chinese medicine andAyervedica (India). What are they
Nexrutine (the bark of an Asian cork tree) and 5-Loxin (which is boswellia)
Also for the inflammation thing very very good to take is Reduced Gutathione.
If your husband has excessive weight and it is concentrated in the abdominal area, he probably has a slightly stressed out liver. The liver detoxifies 70% of your detox function and all the lipids are processed in theliver---so how can you detoxify your liver and get it functioning better-- N-Acetyl - Cysteine does this and also lowers inflammatoin in the body and has a greqt afinity for the lungs .
I am not saying run out and buy these things and tqake them all. YOu need to read up a bit and see how much to use anxd if any of this is good for you, because everyone is different, and if anything conflicts with any meds or condition. BUT , I have found thqat doctors do not seem to give you all the info you need to prevent furnther illness, meds, and surgeries, and do not appear to know thE CAUSES, OR HOW TO PREVENT ILLNESS AND MAINTAIN GREQATER HEALTH LONGEVITY. iT SEEMS TO BE UP TO US TO READ ALL KINDS OF RESEARCH FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND FIGURE IT OUT OURSELVES.
I hope this is helpful.
Wow very interesting
Are u a herbalist 😳
@jamilia123 No just a person who is trying to remain alive and well despite the lack of appropriate knowledge to help me do so, in the traditional medical establishment. Or , rather, I used some aspects of this traditional system , but had to pay for it ( as in genetic tests, blood tests for inflammation)- because regular doctors do not know about these and insurance will not pay for it. So basically it is a knowledge is power approach.
I am impressed
i know herbalist who cant explain how u did
Thanks 👏🏼
Inflammation possibly due to a leaky root canal seemed to be my trigger. High dose of Vit C, 4 gms per day seems to keep the PACs and AF at bay right now. Of course that tooth will have to be removed soon.
So disappointed at my consultation 
AF Without Symptoms 
Amiodarone and AF
