Hormone Therapy & exercise

[divinewill]

Diagnosed metastatic prostate cancer, 9/24, gleason 6, psa 548. Tumor in prostate + appx 5 lymph nodes. On Ogavyx and Extandi. Psa from 548 to .75 in 4 months. Age 78. Wondering about exercise to combat fatique.

[fireandice123]

Exercise is a good remedy for fatigue. I run/walk, swim, and hit the weights regularly. The problem is that the fatigue makes exercise really difficult at times. Some days it’s really a chore to exercise when I’m dog tired. It’s easy to say just do it anyway but it’s so hard some days. I’ve taken the approach is that I do what I can. It’s not the same every day. Some days are much better than others. But it’s something and that’s better than nothing.

[mrscruffy]

I workout 5-6 days a week. Lift heavy in the AM and do cardio in the PM. Probably a bit excessive but I enjoy it. Fatigue is a distant memory

[divinewill in reply to mrscruffy]

Thanks. Good to hear !

[Capricornsurfer in reply to mrscruffy]

Excessive ? No I think you are dong the very best for yourself. Keep it up!!

[Derf4223]

divinewill I suggest you put case details in your bio, its bad karma not to. From what you said above, I'm wondering a couple of things.

1, Did you get any treatment besides ADT? Like chemo, radiation, prostatectomy? Any health issues besides PCa? Does PCa run in your family?

2, Recommend highly you get a bone density scan (DEXA.) ADT causes sarcopenia and osteopenia/osteoporosis acceleration.

3, Poster ages are typically in their bios. Look up for instance other replier's ages and factor that into what they say about their exercise regimes.

4, A clean diet, no red meat, low on dairy/sugar is a good idea in general and specifically for folks with PCa which treatments cause stress on your CV system. Such a diet also reduces odds of some other cancers. Needless to say, low to no smoking and/or alcohol for similar reasons.

5, Exercise. If you aren't exercising already, start slow but keep up the frequency. Lots of material elsewhere here on HU about that.

A PCa diagnosis has been called one of life's great wake-up calls, to clean up your act and realize you have been granted a chance to realize today is the start of the rest of your life.

[divinewill in reply to Derf4223]

Derf, how do I do a general "THANK YOU" to all respondants to my posts at once ?

[Brightman]

Exercise certainly helps. If you read my bio I have had the full works with PCa treatments. I can’t go a day without exercise. It certainly is a boost. I had 7 vertebrae fused last year in May after a compression fracture developed on my T10/T11 after SBRT radiation there. Last year my PSA was rising, so a PSMA Pet scan showed 2 more tumours on left hip and right 8th rib. I had these treated with SBRT again and my PSA has started to come down. Radiation & hormone therapy enhances fatigue, but exercise is a must for me. I feel so much better afterwards. My wife & I go to a supervised exercise class ( with exercise physiologists) each week for an hour and a hydrotherapy class as well for an hour and I have a 3/4 hour of exercise routine at home each day as well. As my GP said yesterday KEEP MOVING!!

[MarkS]

I'm on ADT and exercise has helped tremendously. I do 5-6 exercise classes a week at the local gym. These really motivate me and I can't slack off in them. I'm just off to a 45min aerobics class followed by a 45 min core strength class. Body weight and muscle strength are steady.

[Jay-kud8]

Exercise certainly helps fatigue.

Remember “regularity beats intensity.”

Start gently and build up slowly.

[Pinkyboy]

I believe my little exercise routine definitely help my overall energy level. My “workout” is quite modest: 40-minutes on a recumbant bike, followed by using three exercise machines. This is a Monday, Wednesday, Friday thing for me (as recommended by my doc). A huge factor in keeping me “motivated” to go to the gym when I would much rather stay home is the gym staff. They know my story and have become genuine friends. When I walk into the gym, it’s like Norm walking into Cheers 😂

The staff at my local Planet Fitness gym

[vintage42]

A year ago I began Orgovyx and Abiraterone at age 81, and concurrently began exercise to maintain muscle and bones, and counteract fatigue.

Every day or two I go to a wellness facility and use their Matrix resistance machines for an hour, doing 30 reps per machine with enough weight to tire the muscle. More than just lifting, these machines work many muscles without strain or soreness. Leg Press, Chest Press, Seated Row, Lateral Pulldown, Shoulder Press, Biceps Curl, Triceps Press, Back Extension, Abdominal Crunch, Hip Abductor, Hip Adductor. I feel strong and have no fatigue.

[Vangogh1961]

Exercise exercise. After my oncologist told me exercise can't hurt me I think if that whenever I'm feeling I ain't want to. It's only 20 minutes a day but then I go to work. You can do it.

[85236442968]

divinewill

Been at this whole ADT thing for about 15 months now. 1 year past the end of radiation.

I did not do a lot of exercise thru radiation, in retrospect that was mistake. I was somewhat muscular before I started, skin and bones with a belly when done.

The fatigue was pretty bad along with some other side effects.

Got back to the gym right after radiation. Have worked up to 35-37 minutes of cardio in the am 6 days a week. (I take Sunday off) Treadmill, bike, or elliptical, I do them all, only one on a specific day. Currently most days treadmill right now.

Then 3 days a week in weight room, about 90 minutes. Mon-Wed-Fri.

Fatigue is still with me but is no longer in charge. I have enough energy to do house chores and lawn, Chase grandkids, and do a couple of hobbies. I really think that with out the cardio and weights, I would not be able to do this.

Weight is about where it was when I started, but I still have a little of the "Lupron Belly" left.

It was not easy, but I just stayed at it.

I hope I only have 9-10 months of Abiraterone/Prednisone left, but anticipate at least another year and a half of the Lupron/Ellegard.

Best wishes on your journey, (I have started calling it my adventure). Exercise certainly helps.

[dhccpa]

Been on Lupron for 6.5 years. Exercise is indispensable for pushing past it. Arguably, if you kept moving all day, that might be best. There can be an energy crash later in the day (but it'll happen earlier without exercise), but jump on it early and keep moving. If you don't, it'll be worse.

[j-o-h-n]

Greetings divinewill,

It would be divine if you will update/add to your bio. All info is voluntary but it helps you and helps us too. Thanks and Regards.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[divinewill in reply to j-o-h-n]

Will do John...

[MrBlueDot]

I never post, but I found great info in this thread. I’ve been on Xtandi daily and monthly Lupron for 4 years. When I just got off chemo, I walked 5 days a week for probably about a year. I was toast afterwards. I have a half acre yard and cd barely get things picked up or trimmed as I was gassed. Now, know I’ve had five cancers, so I’m not new to recovery, but for some reason I can’t overcome the massive fatigue. Also, I’m a motorcyclist and go ride for a couple hours when the weather permits. For some reason, riding renews my focus and energy through intense concentration and sensory stimulation. I eat well and lost lots of weight and I feel good, but any digging or trimming or mowing or walking or standing kicks my ass. I see a trend here to start slow and add weights to the routine. I’ll keep trying.

mike

MC

[j-o-h-n in reply to MrBlueDot]

I think it's time for you to dump the Dot and go for the Dash, on your bike.... I've lost my energy and I huff and puff when I exert myself. So in the meantime I'm scouring my neighborhood looking for a bike that I can steal. I don't want a hog, I'd rather have an Indian with training wheels. Stay well and active and I'll see ya on the white line with my fever.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[swwags in reply to j-o-h-n]

maybe get your hands on a scout? of course part prolly no longer available but it was a helluva bike.

[j-o-h-n in reply to swwags]

Hands on a Scout? I prefer a Girl one (they have better cookies).

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[MrBlueDot in reply to j-o-h-n]

I have 4 bikes, ride three. The 2008 Gold Wing… it’s a beast; also have an ’80 LTD1000; and a 2024 HD Hydra Glide (first HD); a BSA 659 Lightning. Not a dash kind of guy, I guess.

[j-o-h-n in reply to MrBlueDot]

to MrBlueDot,

You may be interested in some vintage animal tails which are for sale for display on your many bikes. Many years ago, people started a contest to see who could collect the most tails. I had them going all the way around the bag rails on my SCHWINN . These weren't store bought finished ones...they would actually stop, chop them off and tie them on for you.

I finally stopped doing that when my bike started to smell bad from all the rotting tails.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[j-o-h-n]

Thank you sir. BTW you're come to a great place for information and camaraderie. Keep Posting!!!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[Slick714]

From day 1 on ADT, exercise has been my magic bullet to feeling more normal. My only skip days are if I’m sick. Most weeks it’s 7 days a week with weights and cardio. I have an Apple Watch to track it all, and my daily goal is to close all 3 rings. My only excuse for not closing is if I’m really sick. Some days that means I’m weight resistance training at 11pm at night if I’ve been busy all day. My motto is no excuses! As long as my health holds up this is the way!

[Mjex]

As all of the other replies show, exercise works. IMO that at least part of the tiredness is a mental, not physical aspect of no testosterone. Don't know how you would prove that, but working out works.

[mrssnappy]

My husband and I thought when our black Lab passed away that we were done with dogs. We decided to get a new puppy for motivation to get out and walk. Hank is a great companion and he's a great motivator! Do what you can and hopefully find something you can enjoy.

Hank

[Orange95 in reply to mrssnappy]

Beautiful dog!

[London441]

I don’t give specific advice on exercise you have plenty of that. Just know it’s as important as it would be if you were perfectly healthy. Aging well requires exercise, ADT just heightens that need. Cardio of course but strength training in particular, where ADT robs muscle and slows metabolism.

No one ever looks back at 80 or 90 and wishes they hadn’t wasted their time getting stronger.

[VictoryPC]

Always exercise. It's the key to normalcy and health.

[divinewill in reply to VictoryPC]

Thanks for response.

[CRPCMan]

Always workout..Exercise and walk because you can.. That's reason enough.

[32Percenter]

Exercise is a MUST while on ADT. Keeping your bones strong and fending off osteoporosis is reason enough to do it, but it'll also help you to maintain your energy levels, keep fat gain at bay, and improve your quality of life while going through the brutal treatments.

You'll also lose muscle much faster than average if you don't push your body, thanks to the testosterone drop from ADT. Unless wasting away is part of your long-term treatment plan, you need to prioritize exercise.

People are under the impression that you need to work out 2 hours a day 6 days a week to build muscle and strength, but with the right program you can do resistance training (weights) for as little as 30 minutes twice a week and see great results. Look into HIT (High Intensity Training), and any books by Dr Ellington Darden, Dr Doug McGuff (Body By Science gets some good mentions around here), and The 4-Hour Body by Tim Ferris.

If energy to work out is an issue, exercise in the late morning when most people tend to have more energy. Also, a strong coffee or a pre-workout product can get your motivation up, and push you through your session.

If sore joints or old nagging injuries bother you, try using machines rather than free weights to start. You can also use lower weights but move slower and more deliberately, to lessen the force on your joints & skeleton while still subjecting your muscles to intense work. As a last resort, you could just do the "negative" part of exercises - for example, if you can't do a single chin-up, try climbing a bench into the top position on the bar and then slowly lower yourself to the bottom position, fighting gravity on the way down. Or use two hands to press a weight or machine handle out to the extended position, then lower it back with one.

Whatever exercise method or program you choose to do, it has to have a decent amount of intensity/difficulty in order for you to progress (or even just to maintain strength). If your body can already do what you're asking it to do, it won't waste resources on adding muscle and strength. You MUST challenge your current abilities, so if you're comfortable doing a movement or find it easy, it's time to make it harder at the next session with more weight/resistance, or by moving more slowly and deliberately with the weight you're using.

Good luck with your exercise journey!