I'll admit it I wanted to say is Doris Loh a Quack?
I went to her website for the first time, didn't see any credentials other than being a classically trained concert pianist and then that she was admitted to some scientific honor society I'm not familiar with. So I asked my favorite AI which summed her pretty good I think but still has me scratching my head.
Doris Loh appears to be a self-employed independent researcher/author who focuses on health solutions and molecules like melatonin, ascorbic acid, and deuterium[1]. While she has published works on these topics, she does not hold traditional academic or research institution positions that typically establish scientific authority[1]. Her background includes training as a classical concert pianist, and she describes her work as making "connections unseen by others"[1]. Her work is occasionally referenced in public discussions about melatonin, though primarily in comment sections rather than peer-reviewed literature[5]. Without substantial presence in peer-reviewed scientific publications or academic institutions, it would be difficult to classify her as a mainstream scientific authority in these fields.
I focus more on the product over the labeling. There is a lot of positive research on the use of melatonin which include it's possible anti cancer effects, by which any bloat including my self can sing along to. Research the information presented when in doubt is what I do.
I've seen her name mentioned here and there, and wondered who she is. Another person promoting high dose melatonin is a NV doc who's been trouble, forget his name.
There are some interesting melatonin papers out there, but it's been a while. I'll see if I can find a semi-credible one. Seems like one appeared in a microbiology journal; it was a mouse study, I think.
I have used melatonin as I have many things, but never the 250-300 mg doses like some have.
I found that same doctor in NV after posting this then quickly found him having a very shady history being sanctioned or under investigation. You can actually read the complaint in Nevada. It involves quite a few patients. It looked like he wasn't properly documenting diagnoses to support recommended treatment. Probably because much of what he is recommending people take doesn't have widespread support in peer reviewed scientific literature. There's been no clinical human studies using more than 20 mg. But melatonin has a very good safety profile in general relative to a lot of other stuff you could put in you at high doses.
She has published pier reviewed papers with Russel J Reiter, who has over 219,000 citations and is a well respected scholar in his 80s. I don't believe for a second that anyone of that calibre would ever be remotely associated with a "quack", much less do collaborative work. Which part of her work makes you think she is a quack? have you read any of it by any chance like I suggested last time? Do you understand it? Just because she is a concert pianist AND a researcher and someone doesn't understand her work, is that enough to qualify as a quack? jeez! You spent all this time doing research on the individual and completely missed the point. Liquid-liquid phase separation- Read it!
I think you are confusing asking a question with making an accusation. Thank you for your input. I've previously watched videos with Dr. Reiter and read some of the studies he was an author on and realize she was also associated with some of those. She's not an Oncologist or Microbiologist, not that is a necessarily a pre-requisite to give sound advice but her biography in my opinion could in the least be reasonably described as curious. I realize my use of the term "Quack" colored my inquiry, but the whole point of starting this thread was because I had not come to any conclusion of my own.
Thank you for the clarification. Yeah I definitely got way too emotional there. No she's neither a Microbiologist nor an Oncologist, nor has she made any claims regarding being one ( to my knowledge). But if anyone reads into her research content and the way it is presented, well, I'm inclined to think that some of those professionals will sooner than later be reviewing it and very possibly learning something useful from it. Of course adequate double blind studies are needed, etc., but who will finance those?On many of her social media posts, there are dozens of requests about dosage or some other personal circumstance, to which occasionally she gracefully advices to "do your own research first and don't jump into conclusions". She is not trying to sell you some magic powder but she might point to the fact that melatonin is useless to someone who doesn't have any issues, and useless and potentially harmful by not taking the correct dose for someone who has. The reality is that the newest research ( by numerous professionals) points to the mitochondria and biomolecular condensates as the start of many degenerative diseases, which then cause a shift to the gene pool and not the other way around. It is worth exploring that new(ish) body of work in my opinion. My conclusion regarding her is that she is contributing to the welfare of people in general by sharing her knowledge, even if not appreciated.
I'm fully aware of these papers. But they don't really prove anything for certain for any author let alone Doris Loh. I guess I'm more curious for those that consulted with her, what they thought about her and if she provided any recommendations regarding cancer treatment, what did their Oncologist think of her recommendations?
Sorry, she does not do that ( consulting that is; is very difficult to get an answer to a hypothetical question from her) as far as I know. But she does know that melatonin at the correct dose will likely (likely, because no large research done other than in rats) stop cancers from growing and metastasizing, specially hormonal ones like prostate cancer. Oncologists would probably laugh at all this, besides their medical liability insurance does not cover administering alternative treatments. No point in asking them, not interested. In the US I understand some doctors might use those molecules for research under consent of their patients, which is then allowed in some states. The newly elected government might make those treatments more accessible, we'll see
Melatonin does not need a doctor's prescription or permission to obtain. All patients are free to do whatever they please (as long as it's legal) whether their doctor recommends for it or against.
I'm glad you used the word "likely" in your statement "stop cancers from growing and metastasizing" Ultra high doses of melatonin are not life threatening.
If I had to make a bet, I'd say plenty of cancer patients have already tried it and it did NOT stop the cancer even at very high doses. There is evidence it has varying degrees of benefit as an adjunct to other treatments. If it had stopped the cancer, there would be a mounting body of anecdotal reports that would definitely lead to clinical studies to prove its effectiveness in humans one way or the other. I'm sure you could get a lot of wealthy Prostate Cancer patients to fund it if the government or a nutraceutical company wouldn't.
To date, I am unaware of any study with human patients showing it stopped cancer progression, and in my opinion, logic dictates that's probably because the pre-existing evidence does not show it potentially being a silver bullet. This is quite common with all supplements, herbs, nutraceuticals. They have limited effectiveness if any.
Now if someone on this forum wants to announce they started taking ultra high doses of melatonin and their cancer completely stopped progressing I'm sure there's a lot of people that would love to hear from them. It's one of the few substances you can go hog wild and not risk killing yourself. It has no established LD50. They've given animals as high a dose of 800 mg/kg. That would be well into the thousands of milligrams for human doses which would probably have significant side effects but how would they stack up against the side effects of ADT and Chemotherapy Drugs?
Use of Melatonin in Cancer Treatment: Where Are We? (2022)
In summary, it is vital to identify the possible side effects of melatonin when used in cancer treatment. In the literature, most of the studies reported a low incidence of adverse events but the melatonin was administered at a low dose and for a short duration. In view of the pathological status and possible concurrent treatment in cancer patients, further investigations are warranted to verify the safety profile and dosage of melatonin in cancer treatment.
...when assessing the anticancer efficacy of melatonin alone, the findings from both basic and clinical studies were inconsistent due to varied dosages and times of administration. Further investigations are needed to develop a suitable and uniform administration dosage and time for precise treatment.
Melatonin for cancer patients: Is it safe? (MD Anderson 2022)
Side effects are very rare. [assuming at moderate doses?] They occur in less than 2% of cases and may include:
daytime sleepiness
headache
dizziness
hypothermia (low body temperature)
It’s important to keep in mind that daytime sleepiness can also be a symptom of some advanced cancers, though, which disrupt sleep cycles by reducing the normal secretion of melatonin.
Are there any reasons why someone shouldn’t use melatonin during cancer treatment?
No. But again, we encourage patients to discuss all of their medications — including over-the-counter and herbal supplements — with their oncologists.
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I guess it is possible out of the millions of people worldwide with PCa no one has tried taking, say 1000 mg at night and 250mg two times a day (1500 mg/day ?) I would be very surprised if not a single person has tried it and if successfully stopped their cancer didn't report it to their oncologist who in turn let the cat out of the bag in the medical community. The main concern before taking those doses would be first checking for potential drug interactions.
Considering the poor side effect profile of ADT and Chemotherapy drugs, which do not stop the cancer indefinitely, I doubt there would be a shortage of volunteers to try mega doses of Melatonin.
Thank you for the reply, interesting and logical opinions (except the bit about betting) Two things, first melatonin is not legal for human consumption in the UK, unless under the advice of a licensed medical professional, good luck with that, and two, 1500mgs/ day will likely not have an effect on any serious illness. This is something to think about before starting on that path. This is why I always suggest to go into the research and find out about the doses that are suggested. You are correct though, no human clinical trials to date, so there is no scientific evidence. Yet some of us like to spin the wheel of death, oh and the cat was let out of the bag by the way, but that's irrelevant to the medical community.
Thanks for the clarification about the UK. My frame of reference is in the USA. I will try to remember to be more specific. You seem to be well versed in related scientific literature. Given the safety profile of melatonin, I'd be curious as to what you opinion is on the rationale to make melatonin in the UK require a prescription?
Well that's a good question, one can't help it but to start wondering into the conspiracy theories realm, but common sense tells me otherwise. I believe it probably has more to do with previously giving it to children and the elderly to help with their sleep. But as we all know, it may or may not help with that ( some become more energised and/ or have vivid dreams), plus low dose ml will do absolutely nothing of clinical importance to healthy people, so in view of the uncertainty and lack of meaningful clinical trials, they decided to ban it, claiming it is a type of medication. Like I mentioned before, the dosing is tricky and although it is extremely safe, it can exacerbate certain issues. For example it can raise sugar levels in diabetics, but at the same time it protects them of the effects of those levels. I mean this is a substance that was around before living things used oxigen for respiration, so it has to be much more than an antioxidant (now they believe they know). Every living organism produces it, so it is quite primal, like water and light, so you would think evolution got rid of it millions of years ago if it wasn't relevant to life
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Survival of Prostate Cancer Patients Is Increased by Melatonin
