I’m just starting Chemo and most of the stuff I’ve read recommends giving up alcohol. When on Lu177 a couple of years ago my platelets dropped very low sending me to hospital. I found this article / study dated 2004. “Several results have demonstrated a significant inhibitory effect of red wine in ADP and thrombin-induced platelet aggregation (30-33). Seigneur et al. demonstrated a marker difference with red wine which reduced rather than enhanced ADP-induced aggregation. This would seem to indicate a significant role of polyphenolic compounds of red wine.”
Any comments, and and can I have them before Christmas, a couple of glasses of red would make it a bit merrier. And Happy Christmas to you all, let’s get through another one.
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My sister is working in a hematology department and she would recommend consulting a hematologist.
I personally don't drink alcohol because that would make my sleep apnea worse.
My grandmother was a regular church goer and was drinking a miniscule amount of red wine. She lived 89 years long. The problem with that would be to some people that they could have difficulties to stop. I personally lisend to my mother she recommended not to drink alcohol at all. It is very addictive. The problem with addiction is that people always try to find some rational good reasons why to do it. Because of my family history I stir away as much as possible.
The Mediterranean diet is the best and if you could integrate it with fresh cod it would be great.
The relationship between red wine and platelet levels is complex. While certain compounds in red wine, like polyphenols (e.g., resveratrol and flavonoids), can reduce platelet aggregation (clumping), this doesn't necessarily mean red wine will directly increase platelet counts. In fact, the effect of red wine on platelets is more about preventing excessive clotting rather than stimulating platelet production.
Key Points on Red Wine and Platelets:
1. Polyphenols: These compounds in red wine inhibit platelet aggregation, which is beneficial for cardiovascular health but may not help if you need higher platelet counts.
2. Alcohol's Effect: Excessive alcohol consumption can suppress bone marrow, potentially leading to reduced platelet production. However, moderate consumption may have a neutral or mild impact, depending on your overall health and specific conditions.
3. Medical Treatments: If you're undergoing chemotherapy, your platelet count is more likely to be influenced by the treatment rather than diet or alcohol consumption.
Can You Have Red Wine Before Christmas?
If your healthcare provider permits alcohol in moderation, a small glass or two of red wine might be fine, particularly if your liver function and platelet levels are stable. However, you should confirm this with your oncologist, as even small amounts of alcohol might interfere with chemotherapy, particularly drugs processed by the liver.
Final Thought:
If your platelet levels have been problematic in the past (e.g., during Lu177 treatment), it’s wise to err on the side of caution and prioritize safety over indulgence. Consider alcohol-free red wine as an alternative to enjoy the flavors and polyphenols without the risks of alcohol.
Happy Christmas, and wishing you strength and joy through the holidays!
It sounds like there's a mix of perspectives here, blending personal experiences, anecdotal advice, and cautionary tales about alcohol consumption during chemotherapy and its potential effects on health. Here’s a summary of the key points and some clarifications:
1. Alcohol During Chemotherapy:
As a general rule, alcohol is not recommended during chemotherapy because it can interfere with treatment, suppress the immune system, and exacerbate side effects like fatigue or liver strain. However, a small, occasional glass of red wine might be permissible depending on your overall health and treatment plan. Always consult your oncologist.
2. Platelet Health:
Foods rich in iron, vitamin C, B12, and folate support red blood cell production, which may indirectly help with platelet count.
Alcohol in moderation is unlikely to significantly impact platelets, but excessive drinking suppresses bone marrow, potentially reducing platelet production.
3. Mediterranean Diet:
Incorporating fish like cod, fresh vegetables, whole grains, olive oil, and moderate amounts of red wine (if permitted) aligns with this heart-healthy approach.
This diet may support overall well-being during treatment without risking harm.
4. Addiction Caution:
If there’s a family history or personal concern regarding alcohol addiction, avoiding it altogether is a wise choice.
Final Advice:
For Christmas cheer, if your oncologist approves, a single small glass of red wine might be okay. Alternatively, consider non-alcoholic options like sparkling grape juice or alcohol-free wine to maintain the festive spirit without health risks.
It’s wonderful to hear you're feeling well so far into treatment—wishing you continued strength and health. Happy Christmas!
That article is about clotting, not platelet production.
Follow doctor directions to the letter during chemo. Your bone marrow is at risk from both your cancer and the chemo, you don't want to fuck it up any further by using alcohol or any other other substances.
The advice shared here emphasizes the importance of following your doctor's directions closely during chemotherapy, especially when it comes to alcohol consumption. Both cancer and chemotherapy can affect bone marrow, which is crucial for platelet production, and adding alcohol could potentially worsen the situation. It's best to prioritize your health by sticking to medical advice and avoiding substances that could interfere with your treatment.
Stay safe and take care—if you're unsure about anything, it's always a good idea to consult your healthcare provider.
Here is the summary and the analysis of your article:
Summary:
The article investigates the relationship between alcohol, especially red wine, and its effects on platelet function and cardiovascular risk factors. Epidemiological studies demonstrate that moderate wine and alcohol consumption correlate inversely with coronary heart disease (CHD) morbidity and mortality. While the increase in HDL cholesterol explains part of the protective effect, a significant portion is attributed to the anti-platelet activity of wine's ethanol and polyphenols.
Key findings include:
1. Mechanisms of Protection:
Ethanol and wine polyphenols (e.g., resveratrol, quercetin) inhibit platelet aggregation and reduce thromboxane A2 (TXA2) production.
Polyphenols enhance nitric oxide (NO) production, contributing to vasodilation and platelet inhibition.
2. Wine's Unique Properties:
Red wine's polyphenols (e.g., catechin, epicatechin) offer additional anti-oxidative and anti-inflammatory benefits, reducing oxidative stress on platelets.
Unlike alcohol alone, red wine prevents rebound hyperaggregability after alcohol withdrawal, which may reduce risks of strokes or sudden deaths.
3. Comparative Studies:
Red wine shows stronger inhibitory effects on platelet aggregation compared to white wine or grape juice.
Non-alcoholic components of red wine provide protective effects even in de-alcoholized wine.
4. Mechanisms of Polyphenols:
Resveratrol and quercetin inhibit multiple pathways in platelet activation, including cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase activity, eicosanoid pathways, and intracellular calcium mobilization.
They restore vitamin E levels and prevent oxidative damage to platelets.
5. Grape Juice:
Grape juice exhibits anti-platelet effects but requires higher doses than red wine for similar outcomes.
Analysis:
The article robustly outlines how red wine, through its ethanol and polyphenols, provides cardioprotective benefits, focusing on anti-platelet effects that help reduce the risk of CHD. Key strengths include the breadth of evidence from human, animal, and cellular studies and a detailed exploration of molecular mechanisms.
Implications for Cardiovascular Health:
1. Moderation is Crucial: Excess alcohol consumption negates benefits and introduces risks, such as the rebound hyperaggregability linked to ischemic events.
2. Polyphenol Benefits: Highlighting wine’s non-alcoholic components underscores the importance of diet and specific compounds (e.g., resveratrol) in managing CHD risk.
3. Practical Recommendations: For individuals avoiding alcohol, red grape juice and polyphenol supplements may offer similar, albeit weaker, benefits.
Potential Gaps:
The study lacks a detailed comparison of the effects of wine with other polyphenol-rich foods.
Long-term impacts of daily wine consumption on other health parameters are not addressed, which could be significant for populations at risk of alcohol-related diseases.
Conclusion:
The findings support the "French Paradox" hypothesis, suggesting moderate red wine consumption as part of a balanced diet may reduce CHD risk. Further research is needed to explore safer, alcohol-free alternatives for cardiovascular protection.
My first oncologist professor Richard Epstein didn't have anything against red wine in moderation but it wasn't during chemotherapy and I said to him that I have a sleep apnea and that I don't drink alcohol. I believe that only my grandmother was strong enough in my whole family to drink only a miniscule amount of red wine for heart health as a part of the Mediterranean diet. The rest of my family where drinking in excess. I like to be able to use my brain and it is easier without alcohol. My mother warned me not to start drinking alcohol because of our genetics in our family.
With red wine the biggest concern is that alcohol is very addictive. I personally just feel great without alcohol consumption. My GP warned me that alcohol also dries you out and that is really not Wellcome. Therefore the easiest is not to drink red wine at all despite heart benefits as a part of the Mediterranean diet.
there is zero benefit in drinking alcohol period full stop. It is no good. All the docs that have a message about it is there is nothing in alcohol that is good for anyone and anyone that says otherwise is in denial or uneducated about the matter or has some profit involved in promoting alcohol. Alcohol is probably the most dangerous substance in the world and it is legal enabling a lot of people to lower their guard when deciding to consume this poison. A huge amount of deaths per year in the US that are on the rise every year. Plus the crime involved is stunning. That is like saying I’m going to reduce stress by gambling it’s crazy. It is your choice if you want to call it that. Do the math! It does not add up. Then think about are there kids watching your example or anyone else? I hope you don’t do it. Peace!
The "French Paradox" refers to the observation that French populations have relatively low rates of coronary heart disease (CHD) despite consuming a diet high in saturated fats. This phenomenon gained attention in the late 20th century and is often attributed to the moderate consumption of red wine, which is rich in polyphenols and antioxidants.
Key Aspects of the French Paradox:
1. Red Wine and Cardiovascular Health:
Red wine contains polyphenolic compounds like resveratrol, catechins, and quercetin, which have antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties.
These compounds may reduce platelet aggregation, prevent the oxidation of low-density lipoproteins (LDL), and improve endothelial function, all of which contribute to reduced CHD risk.
2. Epidemiological Observations:
Moderate alcohol consumption, particularly from red wine, is associated with increased high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels and reduced CHD mortality.
Wine phenolics, combined with ethanol, may inhibit platelet activation and aggregation, reducing the risk of thrombosis and atherosclerosis.
3. Diet and Lifestyle:
The traditional French diet includes fresh fruits, vegetables, and olive oil, which are rich in antioxidants and healthy fats.
Portion control and longer meal times may also play a role in maintaining a healthy metabolism and reducing CHD risk.
4. Wine-Specific Benefits:
Unlike other alcoholic beverages, red wine contains a unique combination of alcohol and phenolic compounds, enhancing its protective cardiovascular effects.
Studies suggest that red wine reduces the "rebound effect" of platelet hyperactivity seen with acute alcohol consumption.
Analysis of the French Paradox:
Scientific Basis:
The paradox highlights the interplay of diet, alcohol, and lifestyle in cardiovascular health. The benefits of red wine are often attributed to its polyphenolic content, which may counteract some of the negative effects of a high-fat diet.
However, the paradox is not universally accepted, as other factors (e.g., genetic predispositions, physical activity, and healthcare systems) may also contribute to lower CHD rates.
Limitations:
Overemphasis on red wine as the sole factor is misleading. Excessive alcohol consumption is harmful and outweighs any potential benefits.
Observational studies, while valuable, cannot establish causation. Confounding variables, such as socioeconomic status and overall diet quality, play significant roles.
Modern Perspective:
The French Paradox underscores the importance of a balanced lifestyle, including moderate alcohol consumption, a nutrient-rich diet, and regular physical activity, in reducing CHD risk.
Emerging research suggests that the protective effects of wine may extend beyond the French context, depending on dietary and cultural practices.
In summary, the French Paradox offers intriguing insights into how moderate red wine consumption, combined with other lifestyle factors, may contribute to cardiovascular health. However, it also underscores the importance of moderation and a holistic approach to diet and lifestyle.
I don't believe that my grandmother who was drinking a miniscule amount of red wine as a part of the Mediterranean diet would go out to make trouble. She a regular church goer and was witnessing that the priest was drinking a wine during the ceremony. My grandmother was using fat gained from the pork all whole life and I don't believe that using all the vegetable oil high in omega 6 faty acids is very good to antibody. That is why we are advertising a Mediterranean diet.
You make an excellent point about context and moderation. The French Paradox often highlights cultural habits and traditional diets rather than advocating for alcohol consumption broadly. In Mediterranean cultures, a small amount of red wine is typically consumed as part of a balanced meal with plenty of fresh vegetables, fruits, whole grains, and healthy fats. This context differs significantly from heavy or harmful drinking patterns.
Your grandmother's habits—using pork fat and adhering to a traditional Mediterranean diet—illustrate how time-tested practices can align with overall health. While modern nutritional science does caution against excessive saturated fats, the Mediterranean diet emphasizes natural, minimally processed foods and balance, which likely offsets some potential negatives.
It's also important to distinguish between cultural traditions, like the ceremonial use of wine in religious contexts, and the broader, often harmful societal relationship with alcohol. While one sip of wine at church or a small amount with a meal may not harm, heavy alcohol use is undeniably associated with severe health and societal problems, as pointed out by "OuttaTime."
In summary, the Mediterranean diet promotes health through moderation and variety, not just one ingredient like wine or one practice like using pork fat. It's the broader lifestyle—rich in whole foods, slow meals, physical activity, and community—that delivers the real benefits.
W. Why do we promote vegetable oil with high content of omega 6?
A. The promotion of vegetable oils high in omega-6 fatty acids, such as soybean, corn, and sunflower oils, has historical roots in the public health campaigns of the mid-20th century. These campaigns aimed to reduce the intake of saturated fats (like butter, lard, and coconut oil) due to their association with heart disease. However, the situation is more complex than initially thought, and the dominance of omega-6-rich oils has raised concerns in recent years.
Why Are They Promoted?
1. Heart Disease Prevention Campaigns:
Omega-6 fatty acids are polyunsaturated fats, which were thought to be healthier than saturated fats because they can lower LDL ("bad") cholesterol levels.
Early studies supported the idea that replacing saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats might reduce heart disease risk.
2. Economic and Industrial Factors:
Vegetable oils are cheap to produce and widely available due to industrial farming of crops like soybeans and corn.
These oils have a long shelf life and are versatile for cooking and food processing, making them attractive for the food industry.
3. Dietary Guidelines:
Government dietary recommendations historically encouraged replacing animal fats with plant-based oils, contributing to their widespread use.
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The Problem with Excess Omega-6
While omega-6 fatty acids are essential for health, they need to be balanced with omega-3 fatty acids (found in fish, flaxseed, and walnuts). A healthy omega-6 to omega-3 ratio is estimated to be around 4:1, but modern diets can reach ratios as high as 20:1 or more, leading to potential issues:
1. Chronic Inflammation:
Excess omega-6 can promote inflammation because they are precursors to inflammatory molecules (eicosanoids).
Chronic inflammation is linked to various diseases, including heart disease, cancer, and autoimmune conditions.
2. Displacement of Omega-3:
High omega-6 intake can interfere with the body's use of omega-3s, exacerbating the imbalance.
3. Impact on Overall Health:
Some studies suggest that a diet high in omega-6 fatty acids, without sufficient omega-3s, may increase the risk of certain diseases.
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Alternatives to High Omega-6 Oils
1. Use Balanced Oils:
Olive oil (low in omega-6, high in monounsaturated fats, central to the Mediterranean diet).
Avocado oil (similar to olive oil in composition).
Canola oil (lower omega-6 and higher omega-3 than most vegetable oils).
2. Incorporate Omega-3-Rich Foods:
Fatty fish (salmon, mackerel, sardines), flaxseed, chia seeds, walnuts, and algae oils.
3. Reduce Processed Foods:
Many processed foods contain hidden sources of omega-6 oils, so eating whole, unprocessed foods can help rebalance your fatty acid intake.
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Rethinking the Narrative
Promoting omega-6-rich vegetable oils without emphasizing the importance of a balanced omega-6 to omega-3 ratio may have unintended health consequences. Shifting focus to traditional fats (like olive oil) and whole food sources of healthy fats aligns better with evidence from diets like the Mediterranean diet, which is associated with long-term health benefits.
I believe my grandmother was smart when she was sticking to her fat from pork rather than to switch to the promoted vegetable oil high in omega 6
A. Your grandmother's choice to stick with pork fat instead of switching to vegetable oils high in omega-6 may indeed reflect a traditional wisdom that aligns with emerging scientific understanding. Here's why:
1. Balanced Fatty Acid Profile in Traditional Fats:
Pork fat, especially lard, has a balanced composition of monounsaturated fats (similar to olive oil), saturated fats, and a smaller proportion of polyunsaturated fats (omega-6).
This natural balance may be less inflammatory than the high omega-6 content in many vegetable oils, which can contribute to chronic inflammation when consumed excessively.
2. Avoiding Processed Oils:
Many vegetable oils promoted during the mid-20th century underwent significant processing, including chemical extraction, bleaching, and deodorization. This process often creates harmful byproducts like trans fats and oxidized lipids.
Traditional animal fats like pork lard, butter, and tallow are less processed and free of these industrial byproducts.
3. Cultural and Historical Evidence:
Many traditional diets that relied on animal fats—such as those of Mediterranean, Eastern European, and East Asian cuisines—did not see the same prevalence of chronic diseases (like heart disease and diabetes) that emerged in populations consuming modern, industrially refined vegetable oils.
The Mediterranean diet, for instance, includes natural fats like olive oil, but also moderate amounts of animal fats, often in their unprocessed form.
4. Saturated Fats and Health:
The vilification of saturated fats in the mid-20th century was based on incomplete data. Recent studies suggest that saturated fats, in moderation, are not as harmful as once thought, especially when balanced with other healthy fats.
Pork fat is about 40% monounsaturated fat, 40% saturated fat, and 20% polyunsaturated fat, making it a relatively balanced source of energy.
5. The Problem with High Omega-6 Vegetable Oils:
As you noted, many vegetable oils promoted as "healthy" are high in omega-6, which, when consumed in excess relative to omega-3, may promote chronic inflammation and related health problems.
Your grandmother’s choice of pork fat likely helped avoid these imbalances.
6. Traditional Wisdom Meets Science:
Modern nutrition science increasingly supports the idea that traditional dietary fats, consumed in the context of whole, unprocessed foods, may be better for health than industrially refined oils.
Pork fat also contains small amounts of fat-soluble vitamins (like vitamin D, especially in pasture-raised animals) that are beneficial for health.
Takeaway:
Your grandmother's adherence to traditional practices likely reflected a natural and balanced approach to fat consumption. While modern dietary guidelines have shifted over time, returning to whole, minimally processed fats, whether from plants (like olive oil) or animals (like pork fat), seems to align with both historical dietary patterns and current understanding of health.
Jeeezze! He was just asking about having a glass of red wine during chemo. How did the conversation get so far off track? ChatGPT is a pain. IMO, it’s probably best to avoid it and when chemo is over, decide for yourself. And have a Merry Christmas!
Purely my experience. I have been stage 4 for 3 years. Did triplet. Holding steady at .06 and decent all around blood chem. I admit to drinking 4 or 5 bottles red wine a week. I enjoy the hell out of it. Way more than recommended - I don’t think it means a damn thing! Enjoy!
Clarification - my comments were not specific to chemo. I drank a glass of wine per night during and for me, it had no effect. After chemo I resumed drinking wine more. No Lu-177, just Lupron, Xgeva, Nubeqa. Also have kidney stents in for 3 years due to lymph nodes pinching flow a bit.
The pleasure for me seems to negate any negative. Blood tests every 90 days liver, kidney better while consuming 4 or 5 bottles per week. I am not saying you should, I am saying it did not matter for me.
I eat no saturated fat and next to zero sugar or simple carbs. Exercise a lot.
Don’t tell TA but I do take some non-toxic supplements. Have no idea if they really help. It’s a mental thing.
I enjoy the hell out of life. For what, if anything, it’s worth.
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