Hi,
bump into this forum and in general trying to reach out to learn on any restriction on sugar, dairy . eggs and generally what sort of food should be taking. putting on weight - with ADT and how best to manage this...feeling so tired on ADT, even while typing this. must appreciated.
there has been plenty of posts on diet. It’s best to use the search engine and enjoy the vast knowledge of us warriors.
Hi! the best way to manage it and every therapy you are doing and going to face is: exercise.
Start slow, combine aerobics and weights, don't rush it but be consistent, put in at least 30 minutes per day and gradually increase the intensity while keeping the 30 minutes limit. Then increase time slowly, but 45-60 minutes ar enough for most people. Do it 6 times per week if you can (again, start slow) and keep active with any other activity (gardening, house cleaning,...).
I second what Maxone73 says EXERCISE
I’ll raise you first and second and add exercise is as critical as the therapy. You should restrict you caloric input in the area of carbs.
As you will read in many places, exercising regularly is the most effective approach at reducing fatigue/lethargy. I totally understand that it is hard to contemplate going to the gym when you feel already drained before having done any exercise.
I've been through this while I was on ADT and I am still experiencing that on a lesser level despite not having been on ADT for year now as my testosterone has not fully bounced back yet. But to this day, I still feel a lowering of energy if I skip training for more than 2 days. So the best is to push through the fatigue and to give exercise its place as one of the most beneficial tool.
That isn't to say that nothing else helps.
Diet wise, I follow a low card diet most of the year and I usually turn vegan for a few weeks in the summer when veggies are freshest. I stay away from processed food all year long. If the "food" comes in a box or a can, I do not eat it. Makes my grocery shopping easier since I only need to visit the meat and veggies sections of the store.
I take some supplements but I try to stay away from pharma drugs as a rule but at times my fatigue and brain fog were so bad that I could not read and retain even a single paragraph. I write programs for a living and it is difficult to write when you find yourself unable to read. So I made an exception and started taking had Concerta (similar to Ritalin, Vivance and other ADHD medications). I do feel that those have helped me a little when I was fighting with both the brain fog and with the lethargy.
Another thing that I believe can contribute to feeling so much fatigue is the mental state we find ourselves in. Whether we realize it or not, I think that many of us fall into some kind of depression either after hearing our diagnostic or after beginning ADT. That is understandable as those are life changing events that greatly worsen your quality of life.
I remember having to force myself to watch stand-up comedy on my phone shortly before going to bed so that my brain was not filled with negative thoughts when falling asleep. Once acceptance sets-in and you decide to make the most of your life despite what you are afflicted with, you can regain a sense of something approaching normalcy.
To summarize, exercise, clean living and pushing yourself to think positive thoughts are good tools for your toolbox. Best of luck to you.
Thanks for posting that very helpful response...it should be required reading .
You are very kind :).
Ironic.................... j-o-h-n's wife forces herself to watch his comedy routines shortly before going to bed so that her brain is not filled with negative thoughts when falling asleep.
(Editor's note: j-o-h-n's such a funny and wonderful husband).
BTW j-o-h-n used to be a stand up comic until they told him to sit down....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
welcome to the club noone wants to join...that being said....this is the best group on the planet.ask anything , say anything, your amongst brothers.
demerits are given for the following:
talking politics
disrespecting other warriors
pushing false claims/ anttidotes
MOSTLY not laughing at j.o.h.n.s jokes
lastly being late/ not showing to the yearly xmas party
good luck on your journey...bw
Stand up and see the post just above you.....(caution don't bump your head)...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Cruciate vegetables such as broccoli are supposed to help. Yon can also supplement with BROQ (Prostaphane). Personally I have stopped dairy and eggs, as well as many processed foods. There is no study that says no dairy but I've read enough anecdotal comments about stopping yogurt and milk in particular. Good luck sir.
Dr. Mark Scholz spoke at our support group meeting a while back. A guy asked him about diet/nutrition for prostate cancer patients and he replied. "all you need is 'The China Study' new and revised edition." Another guy asked him about their ADT patients and he said they put all of their ADT patients on a strenuous, heavy weight lifting program. He said it greatly reduces their fatigue, etc.
Your metabolism slows on ADT, so you have to cut calories and increase exercise.
wish u would have said it that simply 6 yrs ago.....just kidding you probably did...i just didnt care then.....45 lbs ago.....thanks for all u do....bw
in addition to the above comments regarding exercise, I find it easier to train hard early in the morning. And the earlier the better. The afternoon fatigue that occurs can be quite severe. I just take a short nap and feel fine afterwards. But that’s something that would happen to older men anyways. It’s just intensified by the ADT.
IMHO, if you were a diet nut before cancer, you're going to continue being a diet nut after cancer. Go ahead and search the archives and suit yourself. One of the things MD Anderson told me right away was to quit drinking alcohol because it's a known carcinogen. Ooops, too late!
As you can tell I'm not a diet nut. I've changed my diet very modestly, have lost weight due to also starting Ozempic for diabetes after the cancer diagnosis, and exercise what I think is sensible for back issues and I also swim as a continuation of before cancer practice.
Best of luck and don't worry about your diet; you'll figure it out. Lots of people will recommend their favorite diet and supplements ... do it or not, but listen to your doctors and take the medications, do the things they recommend. And listen to your body most of all.
Heart healthy diet is best since ADT can be tough on the cardiovascular system plus you want to try to maintain a healthy weight. Diet however really doesn’t affect prostate cancer. It’s more about keeping “the machine” in good working order to withstand treatments. Try to get into a regimented sleep pattern, good sleep is important and exercise every day for at least a half hour. I switch between brisk walking or hiking (good for cardiovascular health) and weights and resistance training to maintain muscle tone. Make it part of your lifestyle, it helps!
Ed
morning.. almost 10 years… morphed into limiting processed foods ( which we should do anyway), white sugar, white flour, dairy, ( whirs ok, yolk increased fat) red meat ( due to amt fat)
Alcohol. Take a look at the Mediterranean diet and blend the two. It’s basically a higher protein, lower carb, lower fat. We try for .8 to 1 gm protein per kg body weight. Around 50 gm carbs total ( don’t forget to subtract fiber)… the protein helps lessen fatigue by helping to maintain muscle. Muscle loss can increase fatigue. It also helps to mature red blood cells which carry oxygen. One way we get protein is I make a plant based protein powder smoothie, unflavored and no sweetener ( amazon) daily. I add spinach, broccoli sprouts ( I make my own) ( google), some powdered white mushroom, tumeric, chia seed ( good for energy and can be sprinkled on other foods) raw honey, cinnamon and frozen mixed red blue berries. Water or almond milk. Oh a couple squirts of like a MIO type flavoring and ice.
Gives 25-30 grams. He exercises daily, walking biking. Some work out but he has shoulder issue. I use broccoli slaw a lot for stirfries…. At least 4 servings of a veggie daily. It works for us.
oops forgot. Many take like D3, b12, Vit c, maybe a men’s Vit with iron, as a minimum to help. Tart cherry capsules can help with aches and pains a bit. Ask for cbc at least every 6 mo especially if had radiation and red blood cells are often a little low.
I have heard that if you already have cancer, which is pretty much everyone here, it can be dangerous to take iron supplements and you should only get iron naturally through food.
Here is what the Copilot AI has to say on the topic:
"Iron supplements can be potentially dangerous for individuals with prostate cancer due to several reasons:
1) Ferroptosis and Iron Toxicity:
Researchers have found that prostate cancer cells can be resistant to iron-induced damage. Iron is essential for red blood cells to carry oxygen, but at high levels, it generates toxic free radicals called reactive oxygen species (ROS). These ROS can damage lipids, which are crucial for cell function.
Prostate cancer cells, however, are insensitive to this lipid damage because they already undergo similar changes in lipids to support their energy needs for growth and survival1.
Scientists are exploring a process called ferroptosis, which involves lipid peroxidation. In ferroptosis, lipids aggregate, lose flexibility, and ultimately cause cell death. By targeting this process, researchers aim to make prostate cancer cells more vulnerable to iron-induced damage.
2) Gene Regulation and Drug Sensitivity:
The gene ATF3, known to suppress prostate cancer, can enhance the vulnerability of prostate cancer cells to a compound called JKE-1674, which induces ferroptosis. Essentially, reducing the cancer cells’ ability to ignore stress can lead to their death.
Additionally, the chemotherapy drug bortezomib, used for multiple myeloma treatment, increases ATF3 expression and can be a good partner in this context1.
3) Iron Overload and Oxidative Stress:
Iron-rich supply promotes cancer cell growth, but an excess of cellular iron can lead to an increase in reactive oxygen species (ROS). These ROS can be harmful to cell structures.
For cancer survivors, including those with prostate cancer, iron supplementation may not be helpful and could even be harmful due to the risk of iron overload23.
4) Cancer-Causing Compounds:
Clinical trials have shown that heme iron from supplements or red meat may increase the formation of cancer-causing N-nitroso compounds in the digestive tract4.
In summary, while iron is essential for various bodily functions, excessive iron supplementation can have detrimental effects, especially in the context of prostate cancer. It’s essential for individuals with prostate cancer to consult their healthcare providers before taking iron supplements."
Hope this helps!
Hello Kittenlover50,
Thanks for the recipe for the plant based protein powder smoothie but to me and I don't wish to be insulting but just funny.....it sounds more like kitty litter.....(as they say "to each his own" so I'll have Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops)).
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Hi ahmadyusriyahaya,
As people have commented here, EXERCISE! I know it's tough when your energy levels are low already, but you can compensate with pre-workout supplements like C4 to give you a boost and get them done. If you want max effect with minimum time investment, do 15-minute HIIT sessions for cardiovascular exercise and HIT resistance training sessions (1 set to failure) for weight training. Google is your friend for HIIT exercise, and for HIT resistance training I recommend The New High-Intensity Training by Dr. Ellington Darden, or Body by Science by Dr. Doug McGuff. The weight sessions are short and infrequent (around 30 minutes once or twice a week), so the time commitment will be low, but be prepared to work hard.
For diet, there are a lot of alternatives out there but I think in our situation the key is caloric restriction. Cancer cells are metabolically very hungry and don't do well with deprivation, while healthy cells have mechanisms to deal with lean times. A lot of cancer patients debate over the best diet, and will swear that the keto diet, mediterranean diet, intermittent fasting, carnivore diet, etc had them getting into shape, feeling great, and slowing their cancer. But what these diets all have in common (aside from avoiding processed foods) is caloric restriction, so I think that's the element that "works". The Mediterranean Diet is probably the easiest to follow of all of these, and I recommend it too.
There's often conflicting research on sugar, dairy, and eggs, but generally all these should be avoided for anyone with any cancer. Simple sugars can feed cancer (especially in the advanced stages), dairy can boost IGF-1 which can stimulate all cancer cells, and eggs contain choline which can stimulate prostate cancer cells in particular.
The most important thing to keep in "mind" is a proper mindset for dealing with your cancer. While it might feel like you just got a death sentence from your doctor, keep in mind there are exciting things happening in prostate cancer research. You already have a benefit that other cancer patients don't, and that's ADT. ADT can extend your life for ten years or more, especially with the new 2nd generation androgen blockers (the "mides"). Then there's chemo (Taxotere or Jevtana), which for prostate cancer is pretty mild compared to chemo for other cancers. Beyond that there's radiation to zap problem tumours, exotic drugs like Ra-223, Provenge, and Pluvicto, and gene-based therapies coming quickly down the research pipeline. Our doctors could probably "Humpty-Dumpty" us and hold us together for years even after ADT fails, and of course healthy habits and fitness only help this process! YOU DON'T NEED TO LIVE 50 YEARS - YOU ONLY NEED TO LIVE 5 UNTIL THE NEXT MIRACLE TREATMENT COMES, THEN 5 MORE YEARS AFTER THAT UNTIL THE NEXT DISCOVERY, ETC.
Keep fighting the good fight!
is there anything behind the statement that modern adt can extend time before castrate resistance for 10 years because the graphs I see in recent studies show mono therapy adt running out of steam after 24 months for half the people and add another year and its 80% of people and combo adt or sequential adt takes the same course but about 8 months shifted to the right. It seems to me and my poor paper reading skills that one would need to be born with a four leaf clover to be in cohort that make it 6 7 let alone 10 years?
Greetings ahmadyusriyahaya,
First of all go into a children's toy store and purchase a solid wooden block for each letter in your UserID (name?). I counted 16. Place them in a gunny sack (jute bag) and for exercise lift it a few times in the morning, noon and night. If your UserID is your real name I think it would not be a good idea to include your middle name and/or your surname.
Next, would you please be kind enough to include your data regarding your Pca in your Bio section. All info (Age? Location? Psa numbers, Meds, Treatment Center(s), Doctor(s) name(s) and etc.) is voluntary but it helps us as well as helping you. Thank you.
Finally, I wonder if Boywonder56 is real or is he an Ai doll?.....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n
Portion control and step up your exercise level.
PCa and exercise
Non-metastatic PCa
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Advanced PCa & Kidney Disease
