Help with TRT Post

[Teufelshunde]

I am trying to find the thread on this study. Seriously considering this since I fit most of the requirements. I know i got his from another post here but mainly directed at BAT. Mine is more just TRT. I know this is a year old article but it is pretty convincing. Any direction is appreciated.

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

[tango65]

This is a link with articles published about BAT, including a phase II clinical trial:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?te...

[Tall_Allen]

Don't use TRT until you are comfortable that you are cured. BAT is for mCRPC and doesn't apply to you.

[Teufelshunde in reply to Tall_Allen]

I wonder if there is such a thing as “cured”. I thought I was cured after my RP that went well. PSA >.1 for a year at which time my URO said I could go back on TRT. I had been on TRT for several years before PC. So I must not have been cured as at 18 months post RP, PSA went to .1 (stopped TRT at that time) and over next year and a half to .32. Had sRT and coming up on my one-year anniversary of that. PSA at 9 mo post was 0.02. One year PSA test set for this Friday. Any other ways to measure “cured”?

I went back several years looking at my PSA and E2 while I was on TRT and noticed some higher E2 numbers at times. I remember by doc having me add zinc to counter that, but at the time I did not know how important that number was. Live and learn. Watch it like a hawk now.

What interested me most in the posted article is the concept of the androgen saturation model. My total T is in the range that would saturate the AR and is there now. If this is a valid, then adding more T should not be harmful. Also the concept that if T goes lower naturally (not on ADT), and that running with low T may be more harmful, worries me.

Sending this to both Tall Allen and Nalakrats and I thank you both for responding. Any thoughts on where to find further research on this saturation concept? Thanks.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Teufelshunde]

I'm cured. Localized prostate cancer can be cured. I considered myself cured after 2 years of PSA of 0.1 (I had radiation). I use TRT.

[jazj in reply to Teufelshunde]

To be honest, based on all the research I've read, no one can really say they are cured 100% for sure. With that said, looking at graphs in at least a dozen different studies with various cohort profiles and treatments, the percentage of patients being free of biochemical recurrence drops sharply (not a cliff but a steep slope) in the first 3-4 years, then the slope gets less steep at about 4 years and then in many studies the slope goes flat at 10 years. But, that is typically because few studies follow patients beyond 10 years. It's more common to get this disease when you are older and after 10 years in many cases the patients died of something else so you wouldn't be able to know how many more years they would remain free of biochemical recurrence. I've heard anecdotal evidence of recurrence as far as 20 years but that appears to be extremely rare. So in a nutshell, my own opinion is that if you make it to 4 years without biochemical recurrence, you could probably consider yourself "cured" for all practical (and psychological) purposes.

[addicted2cycling]

Can't address BAT question directly since I had an orchiectomy first shot then simply went on TRT in Jan 2016 following GL10 treatment and my IMMUNO in situ injection. *T* max was 1,600ng/dL following injection down to 400-600ng/dL 2 weeks later before next injection. Stayed on it until earlier this year when PSA rose. I stopped before a PSMA PYLARIFY Scan that came back clear and was given the OK to start again but I'm holding off until next PSA. Calling this my own Unique Eunuch modified BAT Trial. No one else like it so it's a one off and I'm just playing around.

[Teufelshunde]

I wonder if there is such a thing as “cured”. I thought I was cured after my RP that went well. PSA >.1 for a year at which time my URO said I could go back on TRT. I had been on TRT for several years before PC. So I must not have been cured as at 18 months post RP, PSA went to .1 (stopped TRT at that time) and over next year and a half to .32. Had sRT and coming up on my one-year anniversary of that. PSA at 9 mo post was 0.02. One year PSA test set for this Friday. Any other ways to measure “cured”?

I went back several years looking at my PSA and E2 while I was on TRT and noticed some higher E2 numbers at times. I remember by doc having me add zinc to counter that, but at the time I did not know how important that number was. Live and learn. Watch it like a hawk now.

What interested me most in the posted article is the concept of the androgen saturation model. My total T is in the range that would saturate the AR and is there now. If this is a valid, then adding more T should not be harmful. Also the concept that if T goes lower naturally (not on ADT), and that running with low T may be more harmful, worries me.

Sending this to both Tall Allen and Nalakrats and I thank you both for responding. Any thoughts on where to find further research on this saturation concept? Thanks.

[Teufelshunde]

Thanks Nalakrats. I agree, those sleeper cells might still be there. Taking the Fiseten, etc for that just in case. My wife's best friend had non-Hodgkins lymphoma and was "cured" and 15 years later, reoccurrence and new chemo. I will reach out to Patrick and continue my quest.