DHT lab report

[Scout4answers]

Can I assume that my body or my cancer is not producing any DHT?

hence their is no need for Avodart?

Component DHT, LC-MS/MS

Your Value <2.5 pg/mL

Standard Range 106.0 - 719.0 pg/mL

theprostateadvocate.com/pdf...

[Tall_Allen]

Yes. Idk why you bother getting a lab test for it (or E2) as long as you are using a GnRH agonist or antagonist.

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

I am anticipating coming off ADT at some point and want to know what happens with DHT as I do. This is now a baseline for me. Also those that achieve low DHT numbers as well as ultra low PSA #s while on ADT have better OS potential.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Scout4answers]

What does a "baseline" DHT mean when one is on ADT? That's like saying castrate level T is a "baseline." Everyone achieves low DHT and T numbers if they achieve castration levels while on ADT.

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

It is my understanding that if ADT does not work DHT # can rise.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Scout4answers]

Yes, but except in very rare cases, ADT always suppresses testosterone, even when a man is castration resistant. If T is suppressed, DHT is suppressed.

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

Would be interested in your response to my MRI post

[Tall_Allen in reply to Scout4answers]

I don't read all posts on here - just the ones that land in my email. What's the link?

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

[Tall_Allen in reply to Scout4answers]

I read it. ADT has shrunk the cancer as it is supposed to do. What is your question?

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

MRI was ordered by RO for targeting purposes.How does an RO target the cancer if it is not visible?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Scout4answers]

I have no idea how he can target radiation to tumors that are invisible. . If you have just a few mets and he plans to debulk the cancer, he needs a current MRI and CT to contour the radiation to the dimensions of the prostate.

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

So radiation makes no sense at this point in time?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Scout4answers]

I didn't say that.

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

In your opinion is there any chance that ADT has dealt the cancer a fatal blow?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Scout4answers]

Fatal? You mean, did it get rid of all the cancer forever? Not a chance. That's not what ADT does. It certainly shrank the cancer. Your metastases are too small to be seen on scans, but they are certainly still there.

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

So would you say that it is normal after 7 months on ADT for the MRI scan to be re rated to PI RADS 2 ?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Scout4answers]

Yes, of course. As I said, I really don't see the purpose of an mpMRI (instead of just an MRI and CT for radiation planning) after 7 months of ADT. Unless there were signs of activity, like a rising PSA.

[Scout4answers in reply to Tall_Allen]

Because I am in Chicagoland and RO is at UCLA. this was done to determine whether I might still be a candidate for SBRT.

[maley2711 in reply to Scout4answers]

ADT has NEVER been advised as a curative !! Statistics being what they are, certainly some men die of something else before ADT fails......and there may be 1 in a 100-1000? men for whom ADT is enuf to snuff out all testosterone-loving cells, and no other types of cancer cells are present...too bad we have no current way of knowing fit that description.....hopefully someday.....right now, it's roulette !!

[Hidden]

Below the lab test detectable lower limit. That does not mean that it is absolute zero though and this is a point of discussion. For ADT, we know that total T less than 20 ng/dl is preferable to a total T less than 50 (or even higher).

My MO and I think that even lower than 20 is better. In particular, as castrate resistance sets in we have discussed ways to address it. One is dropping androgens as close to zero as possible. Since then I have moved on to BAT therapy and discussions about how to get androgens as low as possible have been tabled.

[EdBar in reply to Hidden]

How is BAT therapy working out for you?

[Hidden in reply to EdBar]

PSA goes up to 0.3 during high T phase, Drops to zero during low T phase. I'm 8 months into it.

On a side note I have gained 9.6 lbs of lean mass in that 8 months.

[EdBar in reply to Hidden]

Nice, might be my next play, I’m a patient of Dr. Sartor who is very experienced with it

[Hidden in reply to EdBar]

I wanted to get a consult with him. I'm going to ask my MO if she can facilitate it.

[LearnAll in reply to Hidden]

Extremely low Total T (less than 10) is very desirable. There are studies which indicate that it is not only Nadir PSA but also Nadir T which foretells prognosis. Men whose total T drops below 10 do have better long term survival than ones whose T does not drop below 50.

[Hidden in reply to LearnAll]

My Nadir T only dropped to 35 ng/dl on the last cycle (the high is over 2000). I'm attempting to decrease that number.

[Hidden in reply to LearnAll]

My total T when I was on estrogen patch ADT was undetectable.

[Justfor_]

IMO the important metric to watch is the ratio of DHT / totalT.

I take Avodart and my average (N=14) is 4.67%, σ=1.58%.

Do your math.

[maley2711 in reply to Justfor_]

in your opinion...based on what?

[Justfor_ in reply to maley2711]

Fractions (5th grade maths):

When the numerator and denominator change values in proportion, the value of the fraction remains unaltered, aka, Avodart did nothing to change the total T to DHT relation.

[maley2711 in reply to Justfor_]

yes, I understand 5ht grade math !! even 8th grade!! You said " IMO the important metric to watch is the ratio of DHT / totalT. " i said " your opinion..based on what "

[Teacherdude72]

I am on monthly, my choice, Lupron and daily Nubeqa, now 9th month. PSA undetectable and T also undetectable. Growing some new hair at front hairline. Not on Avodart.