Muscle mass vs prostate cancer mortality

From this NIH study of 2,000 PCa patients who had RP, the 10-year overall survival stats for men with a psoas muscle mass in the top quartile (psoas goes from spine to femur) is approximately 90%. Cancer-specific survival is about 98%.

From non-referenced studies and stats, the average age at diagnosis is 66. Overall mortality for a 66 y.o. man is approximately 15% (regardless of cancer status).

So the mortality for men with high leg muscle mass is actually less than that of the average man.

And, as noted in this study, muscle mass is correlated with testosterone and IGFBP-3. And of course, inversely correlated with SHBG (binds testosterone and makes it biologically inactive). My bro-science guess is that GH, testosterone, and IGF-1 can be damaging IF they aren't put to use. If anabolic hormones are introduced into the system without a need, I would guess that bad things could happen - the growth of cancer as much as anything else. But if the body is attempting to adapt to resistive stress by hypertrophy, I would guess that the benefits might outweigh the negatives. But as far as I know, this is only conjecture and has not been proven.

I have seen many studies on exercise vs. prostate cancer patient mortality and fat vs. prostate cancer mortality. Almost all of the larger NIH and country studies show that exercise is beneficial for prostate cancer patients. Fat isn't as clear cut but belly fat and visceral fat appear to be highly correlated with increased mortality rates. Whether this is causal or not can be argued. Almost anything can be argued though and analysis paralysis is something that I do not feel that we have the luxury of engaging in. This study is specifically concerned with muscle mass. What I would like to see is a study that breaks out the top 25% into <1% increments. And I would love to see studies about the interactions of resistance training with GH and IGF-1 as they pertain to cancer or all-cause mortality

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/309...

[lcfcpolo]

Hi RSH1. Good post. I think that low muscle mass and belly fat are factors in Advanced Prostate Cancer, for some of us. I exercised a plenty, running, tennis, hiking but never got rid of belly fat, despite being skinny otherwise. My muscle mass has always been low, partly due to office based jobs. On reflection I probably had low testosterone for a number of years prior to diagnosis at age 53. I did read a Canadian study on this once from a university in Montreal I think. The take home message is that Primary Doctors should be looking at these risk factors to diagnose earlier. I have built in resistance training now but despite being under weight, still have belly fat and low muscle. Really we need individualised treatments based on these factors amongst many others but these treatments just do not seem to exist and Medical Oncologists just go with standard of care. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to know....

[Hidden in reply to lcfcpolo]

I'm certainly not an expert on the subject but have worked out for over 40 years now. In my 20's I got up to 255 at around 14% bodyfat. Then cut to 235 with maybe 8% bodyfat. I'm almost 60 and have managed to increase my weight back over 200 with 11% bodyfat. My goal (driven by prostate cancer and also by my residual vanity) is 220 with 12% bodyfat. I hired a personal trainer to help me get there.

Protein is very important (0.6-1g per lb of bodyweight). I stay away from casein but Iconsume some whey protein after working out (25g of it). Most of the remaining protein comes from rice and beans. Carbs are also important. Creatine is one of the only supplements that works and it also has a considerable amount of data backing its cancer-fighting properties. 99% of workout supplements are garbage.

I don't know how you react to stimulants but a few hundred milligrams of caffeine about an hour before working out can be helpful.

Working out 4 or 5 days a week seems best for me. The other days I do some light cardio and rest up from the weights. You don't grow during workouts. You might see a pump and mistake that for growth but it's not. Workouts just give your body a stimulus to adapt during growth periods. Your body isn't going to grow muscle if you workout all the time.

Rest-pause is excellent (the new term is dogcrap - I prefer the old term).

I have a chapter devoted to exercise in my free book: drive.google.com/drive/fold...

I am going to be working on the exercise chapter this week.

Russ

[Purple-Bike in reply to Hidden]

Do you split the muscle groups between different days? I have that soft feeling in my legs after weight training for a full five days. So do legs plus back once a week upper body twice a week. I don't know if it's counter-productive to train before you are fully restored.

[Hidden in reply to Purple-Bike]

I always split up bodyparts. Whole body workouts are good for the first few months or if you want to save time. Or maybe for some particular sports.

I currently do

day 1: back

2 chest

3 legs

4 shoulders

5 back

6 and 7 active rest

If I hit legs hard I only need to do them once a week (so hard that I'm almost passing out at the end and have to lie down and rest for a bit).

The back days include lots of trap and shoulder work. That's why it's two days. And once a week I throw in a little bit of work for triceps and biceps. Maybe 15 minutes of each. I do 5 minutes of ab work a couple of times a week. I should increase that but I have a hard time getting motivated for ab work.

Another split I like is 1)quads 2)lats 3) chest 4)hams and glutes 5) delts and traps

[Purple-Bike in reply to Hidden]

Same with me, after those squats and deadlifts to the last possible rep I am blasted! Five days to the next time is minimum. Is it beneficial to do chest and shoulders too just once a week? I do them together twice a week one hour each time. Find it hard to identify enough exercises to get upwards of an hour for each group, also because I only do one set of each exercise. I believe doing 2-3 does not give that much extra benefit.

[Hidden in reply to Purple-Bike]

I don't know if doing them once a week is optimal. My chest dominates my other bodyparts so once a week is probably sufficient at this time. My shoulders are subpar though. I am trying one long workout for shoulders. See if that does it. If not, I'll probably do a shorter shoulder workout twice a week. Science points to twice a week being the best (or even three shorter workouts).

[Bodysculpture]

Resistance training keeps us strong Whereby the treatments make us weak

I am not as strong as I was when diagnosed but still lifting mind-boggling weight

I remain one of the strongest at my gym 2 years post treatment

I am gonna keep going because it brings me such a sense of accomplishment

And my noisy training team make me forget however temporarily about what matters

I have been asked to guest pose in an upcoming show

After giving a speech about prostrate cancer

At 59 they are still boggled about my muscle mass

It has been my friend for many years and has taken me all over the world

I love to train heavy and hard

It will be a sad day when I no longer can

[Hidden in reply to Bodysculpture]

One of my goals is more muscle. Part of the reason is to stave off the inevitable decline in QoL. Partly because I want to (I was raised in an era when Arnie was a household name and was one of the most admired men in America). Partly so that I can shape my kids to be athletes. So Jiu-Jitsu and weightlifting are two of my strategies.

Hope that it will be a long long time before I can't pump iron. Guys 20+ years my senior are still going strong.

[Bodysculpture]

Let's keep this going and encourage others Quality of life is are action words

Train for quality

I haven't changed a thing

I still train to make change not to maintain

And I think it hinders progress when we just do enough

That feeling after a great session is priceless

For a short period I feel like Denver again

That's enough for me

Moment to moment

Live you guys man

I really do

I am not alone

Love forever Cloudman I will never forget you

There are so many I want to say a special thanks

Too many lol