Anyone seen a plot of time to biochem... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Anyone seen a plot of time to biochemical recurrence and psadt?

Ribotom profile image
13 Replies

There surely is a correlation between time to recurrence and PSADT, but it would be interesting to see this plotted out fir a large sample of men post RP.

I suppose PSADT can change over time, but as a start the plot described above would be of interest.

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Ribotom profile image
Ribotom
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13 Replies
Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen

Because PSA<0.2 cannot be used to calculate PSADT, PSADT can't be used to predict BCR.

Ribotom profile image
Ribotom in reply toTall_Allen

What about a retrospective study looking at the correlation between TTR and eventual PSADT, ie when PSA reaches 0.2 or higher?

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply toRibotom

I'm not sure what you're asking for. Men are usually offered salvage radiation by the time PSA reaches 0.1 or 0.2. What is your PSA?

ron_bucher profile image
ron_bucher in reply toTall_Allen

Do you have a literature citation that states PSA<0.2 cannot be used to calculate doubling time?

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply toron_bucher

It is only valid for PSA > 0.1. Look it up for yourself.

ron_bucher profile image
ron_bucher in reply toTall_Allen

I can't find anything online. Do you have a citation?

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply toron_bucher

I'm sure you can find it- or just trust me.

ron_bucher profile image
ron_bucher in reply toTall_Allen

No offense, but I like to validate what I hear by finding multiple sources.

ron_bucher profile image
ron_bucher in reply toron_bucher

This seems to question Tall_Allen's statement: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Ribotom profile image
Ribotom

Sure, but it would still be interesting to see how tight or loose the correlation is, even without stratifying for these many variables.

Justfor_ profile image
Justfor_ in reply toRibotom

My understanding combining maths and published studies is this: For a two decimal points PSA values discard anything bellow or equal to 0.03. Two reasons for this a) the accuracy is poor and b) the rounding error is high ( 50% from 0.02 to 0.03). For the latter the 20 accepted variance is reached at the transition of 0.05 to 0.06. By then, a very crude doubling time can be estimated. Twice this doubling time and the 0.2 threshold is breached. QED

Gemlin_ profile image
Gemlin_

Are you using ultrasensitive PSA values (< 0.1) for PSADT calculations? You will then overestimate your risk of recurrence. Agreement between PSADT calculated using ultrasensitive vs standard PSA is poor. Ultrasensitive PSADT is often significantly more rapid than traditional PSADT. Ultrasensitive PSADT has no prognostic value.

Horse12888 profile image
Horse12888

Having read all these replies, it appears there may be some confusion.

Rib is simply asking if men who have quick BCRs and prone to have high PSADTs down the line. It would seem almost certain that there is such a correlation, though apparently no one's invested the time to make such a retrogressive study.

Not what you're looking for?

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