Others may have already seen this, but here's a link to a recent study on the neuropsychiatric impact of ADT.
ADT and Depression/Dementia - Advanced Prostate...
ADT and Depression/Dementia
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58 Replies
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Well CC? Are you depressed? Goes with the turf until we handle it . Comes and goes sometimes .
in reply to
With me, it's constant. Depression, melancholy, sadness, blues. All of the above, all of time.
Frankly, I'm tired of it.
in reply to
Hey CC. ....APC and it’s treatments are a grind .. at best it’s a horror story for us fine fellows. I was suicidal and a crazed manic my first two years with the tubes foley and stents. That! Was some hell. I chopped my balls. My own decision to stop the shots . Went down hard with self hate and feeling worthlessness .. I’ve been there brother. We must make a decision to choose life.. gloom and doom can break us into the Abyss... getting stripped of t is a mofo of a thing for a man . The thing that drove us our entire life , is now said to be our enemy. I think that you can pull out of daily depression . You must practice daily happiness of some sorts. An hour of yoga-on line now- Or walking or Anything that makes you happy. I wake up each morning water dripping from my mouth into deep nausea . I’m spinning . Dizzy and disoriented accompanied by hot flashing into sweat .Good morning! This is practically every freakin day. . Can’t eat Until I smoke some weed .. just feel like pucking. I just saw the dr and she offered me Zophran for nausea . I refused . These are all side effect from the adt that I’ve been on over five years now . I’m the only one on HU using this drug. Dudes couldn’t handle the side effects . I’m a mule? Once I got the tubes off it took me another year of anger and self loathing until I finally accepted my lot . We’ve Lived solely on Ssdi for five years now...way below poverty my friend. But here’s the thing about HU.We have people dying and folks in brutal situations of hellish pain and suffering . Their family s are suffering too. So I can’t complain here ever . What you’re going thru we all are going thru . You’ve got to dig in and enjoy what you can now. This shit can turn on us at any second and eat us for lunch . Any day not in brutal
Pain or near doctors is a good day in my book.. Get exercise! I ve gone thru diminishing capacities over five years now,but at some point we must love ourselves in order to survive with this dreadfully demeaning disease .. Love yourself . Step one! This hormonal experiment that we’ve entered is no cake walk brother. Hang in there !✌️😎
monte1111 in reply to
I would love myself .... if I could.
Cosmic Charlie, how do you do? My reaction to Lupron has not included depression, but hot flashes were terrible, sleep was terrible, I was cranky, and exhausted. My wife called me loopy from the lupron. Concentration was bad. I saw research on this site about low dose estradiol helping with hot flashes and bones, so I copied PATCH, STAMPEDE trial studies and a few others i found on line and took them to my urologist. He agreed to put me on .1mg estradiol patch along with the lupron. That was last November. The change in my case has been dramatic, for the better. Stamina is still low, but exhaustion is gone, flashes greatly reduced, mood and concentration improved. Good luck and keep on truckin'.
-Will
in reply to lookingforamiracle
Thanks for that. Not just the estradiol tip, but your message itself. I feel better for having read it.
lookingforamiracle in reply to
I saw your name and couldn't get the song out of my head. Always had a soft spot for that quirky little dittie. Thank your for making me smile. And the E2 really has been a gamechanger for me and some others. In my case as a supplement to the Lupron, but some like, ronronHU, go for a higher dose that brings the testerone down without all the really tough effects of Lupron. I am considering going that route when my next 6 month shot of Lupron is due. My urologist is on board with the switch whenever I want.
in reply to lookingforamiracle
In fact, Cosmic Charlie is my motorcycle's nickname. : )
Thanks for the E2 tip!
in reply to
I want the e-2 . I just asked my new Nurse practitioner . She’s fresh out of college working for my mo. She knew nothing of e-2 patches . I’ll ask my mo on a tele conference next week for the patches . Ronron has had great success in Thailand where the jell Is very cheap . Take care
in reply to lookingforamiracle
🤙🏽👏🏼
Been using estradiol patches for over 5 years now, they were first prescribed by Snuffy Myers. Made a big difference in hot flashes etc. Long term ADT is still rough but the patches certainly help, and they also help with bone health.
Ed
in reply to EdBar
Thanks, Ed. Appreciate the feedback.
in reply to EdBar
Thanks!
Great reply Will! I just don't understand why so few of our comrades are willing to try E2? I have been on tE2 exclusively for 28 months and other than my cute little boobies my QOL has not changed one iota. My last PSA was 0.003.
in reply to E2-Guy
You rock Ronron! 🌵
I tried to get my urologist to put me on E patches, but he won't do it. I made it VERY clear to him I wanted E. He has read in some paper that it might feed the cancer. Do you know of anything to refute that that I could show him?
I just forwarded your message to the tE2 guru, Richard Wassersug.
Thank You RonRon.
To the best of my knowledge men with higher E2 levels (lower T levels) appear to be at greater risk of developing PCa. Abraham Morgentaler believes that high T levels keep the prostate healthy; however, should a man develop PCa, T cannot differentiate between healthy and malignant cells and continues to feed both, hence the need for ADT. DES (synthetic oral estrogen) was effectively used for 40 years until replaced by leuprolide 35 years ago. Transdermal E2 (tE2) avoids the hepatic first-pass metabolism that was responsible for the increased CV events caused by the use of oral estrogens. Since E2 is the most potent of the three major estrogens, I assume that it was the component of DES that was the most effective in lowering T levels.
Hope this layman's explanation makes any sense?
cureus.com/articles/18507-d...
in reply to lookingforamiracle
That’s great for you about the e-patch . I’m
Interested in this much? Thanks
I've been on ADT almost three years now it definitely takes a toll on you. I've gained about 25 pounds even staying active, hot flashing has subsided another or i guess I'm getting used to them,mood swings are not as often, memory loss is evident for sure. I thank my Doctor always for keeping me alive long enough to see my Grandkids grow up and so far so good. My PSA has been steady at 0.1 since first treatment. Zytiga,Eligard,Xgeva. Never give up Never surrender. Leo
in reply to leo2634
Good on you, Leo!
Three years seems a very long time. But better, I suppose, than the alternative. : )
I just don't understand why so few of our comrades are willing to try E2? I have been on tE2 exclusively for 28 months and other than my cute little boobies my QOL has not changed one iota. My last PSA was 0.003.
in reply to E2-Guy
In my case Ron its the doctors not allowing me . I’ll ask on next weeks teleconference with my mo. I’m on the test drug , maybe that why . I’ll let you know Sir! Be well ! 🌵
lookingforamiracle in reply to
I have a urologist probably in his 60's or so who is well aware that oral estrogen was used before Lupron and the like to bring T down, but he wasn't up to speed on more recent research with transdermal delivery that looks to avoid the cardio vascular problems associated with the pills. I dropped off several studies a week before our next meeting. I was thrilled that he read them and was willing to be my partner in this adventure.
in reply to lookingforamiracle
That’s cool!🤙🏽
ives definootly foundied it difucult to concentr8 und foocus whil on AyeDt
in reply to V10fanatic
😂😷
Dude, that shit you're on has really done the number on you!!!🤣
in reply to V10fanatic
Just take me for a ride in that viper and I’ll be happy .
V10fanatic in reply to
Unfortunately I had to sell it. 700 HP and 700 lbs of Torque(it was modded with heads/cam/headers/3:55 gears/twin disc clutch, etc) with no traction or stability control was waaay too much for my fogged up brain to handle 
in reply to V10fanatic
Dam! I understand it though. I had to sell all of my toys also. I’d probably kill my self in the viper . Not a bad way to go? I sold motorcycles too. My friend told me you just might forget to put your foot down as you stop? I’m a fragile Fembot now and can’t take any more pain. Was never accident prone prior to APC grabbing me . Now I am. I still love to go fast . I was heading down hill to see my mo the other day . The outside temp was 104 I and I was going 104 mph . That’s in a Jetta. Imagine Me in a viper ?
in reply to V10fanatic
If I was a rich guy ? I’d put five grand down on a $90k new Nikola 4x4 electric -hydrogen truck . 1000 hp and 0-60 fast.
V10fanatic in reply to
I've always wanted a Shelby Cobra replica. Nothing like having 550+ HP in a 2,300lb go-cart. It's probably the only car more dangerous than a Viper!
in reply to V10fanatic
It’s had one from NAF in Phoenix. A 95 it was but had a 304 ho not the fabled 550.. It still hauled ass . White with blue stripes over it ..I was in my30s then . It still smoked the tires easily if you wanted. I got rid of it before I lost my license. Also every chick I had back then burned their legs on the pipes. I did it once my self. Although I warned them .. fun while it lasted.
That damn cosmic dust will get you all the time....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 08/12/2020 5:05PM DST
in reply to j-o-h-n
Thanks, John! Humour helps, for sure.
in reply to j-o-h-n
Some good shit man!😂
That’s why using venlafaxine, a generic anti depressant to help reduce hot flushes and sweats due to the ADT has the added “side effect” of being just what it says...an antidepressant!
Dementia was mentioned in the original post. Does E2 help with that?
Dementia does not appear to be a common side effect when E2 is used as a monotherapy form of ADT; however, I don't know if it will help restore cognitive functions when used in conjunction with other ADT drugs.
in reply to E2-Guy
That would be a miracle?
How did I get here?? Oh yah five years of adt!😂😷
dockam in reply to
Me too Brother - Lupron/Casodex to start 01/2015 and now Lupron/Abiraterone since 01/2020. Brain fog sucks. PSA went up to 4.9 from 4.3 the month before, so fingers crossed not doubling anytime soon.
C'est la vie with ADT
youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDP...
Fight on y'all
Randy
in reply to dockam
Randy you are unique on this cite. A working dentist and a marathon runner for APC . I salute you compadre. Yes! Que sera sera!
I am not sure about dementia, but after a year on Lupron having to wake up to sweat for flashes and another 4 or 5 trips to the bathroom I was exhausted all my waking time. I am still working doing research and working with email all day. Organizing to send off my reports bordered on baffling, and it didn't matter how many times I proof read the things there would be obvious misspellings and missing words. My wife noticed my driving was off, I had a heck of a time figuring out relatively simple projects around the house. I felt more in a fog than anything else, though maybe that is the road to dementia. The research i have seen reports an association between adt and dementia rather than a cause with a mechanism. I know for me that my sleep improved dramatically when I started the E2 to help with the lupron, and that improved my thinking, awareness, outlook on life, and general desire to continue whatever it takes to live with PCA and treatments medical and otherwise. I started taking some melatonin also shortly after starting E2. I know Patrick has written on this (I love the search feature on this site to look up our collective experience and research on a drug, a treatment, a supplement, etc). I also came across an article that helped me settle on 20mg as my nightly dose. fullscript.com/blog/how-mel...
If nothing else, I know that the improved sleep has made everything better in my life. Best to all.
in reply to lookingforamiracle
Excellent feedback. Thanks!
in reply to lookingforamiracle
Awesome
I know that doctor no will never prescribe it but I will give him a try. If one has already had orchiectomy is estradiol patch worth a try? He is having hot flashes, sleeplessness, weakness, dementia.
in reply to Grumpyswife
Great question. I’m wondering the same due to my orchiectomy? ✌️
My experience thus far has been with Lurpon only, so I won't speculate on what looks like a much more complex situation with you guys. I do believe it is worth bringing up with your doctor, though, especially the low dose aspect to mitigate low/no T symptoms. Since it is not the usual standard of care, it may be important to bring research to help him or her step out of the norm, though there could be reasons why they have not gone there already. When I asked my first urologist about estradiol he quipped, "only if you want boobs". Then he hurried out of the room to the next patient he was already late for. I am incredibly thankful for his surgical skill in doing my TURP. But once my head quit spinning and settled into a fog the first year I was able to find a urologist in a much less hectic practice who I could talk with.
I read your story with great interest as I hope mine will continue for some years, and I thank you for passing on your experience. I wish you all the best. - Will
It’s notme . It’s the pandemic stating the travel rules now. I’m coming ..😂😷Good that took that trip to the see your sister.
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