THREE (3) QUESTIONS:
Question #1 - What is the highest PSA you know of that a person still maintains a healthy lifestyle?
Question #2 - Are there other causeS of high PSA other than cancer? If so, how high a PSA?
Question #3 - What are SAFE meds for lowering PSA?
Question #4 - Why does PSA need to be lowered IF a person is healthy, full of energy, storng, and active?
Hi, I had an 840 PSA in 01/2015 and did the Surf City marathon the next month(did 6 marathons that year). Started ADT(Lupron/Casodex) for 30 months, Had 15 Taxotere sessions and got to 0.1 in 2017. From the CHAARTED trials.
The longer and lower the PSA gets the better the prognosis. blog.athlinks.com/2017/05/1...
Fight On Brother
Randy
Thanks, my friend!
PSA in normal men can vary from near 0 to 4 micros.
We, the cursed shouldn’t tolerate levels above .5.....however if one can stabilize their disease PSA doesn’t matter. How one stabilizes is the rub...mostly it’s by beating the offending cells to near death and caging them under seal.
Thanks, my friend!
#2
When I had my prostate surgery in 2017, the chief doctor told me that he once had a patient with a PSA of 80. And it wasn't cancer. The cause in this case was inflammation.
Thanks!
Was this person biopsied? Very interesting.
My MRIs were PIRADS 1, 2 and 3 (unlikely to indeterminate), never a 4 or 5 (highly likely for cancer). A radiologist told me he could not find a place to stick a needle even if I wanted to go through with a biopsy, as my DWI (diffusion weighted imaging) numbers were quite the outlier for a prostate cancer patient (in a positive way...he could not find cancer).
Yet my Uro said he has never seen a PSA as high as mine (44) with chronic prostatitis.
I don’t like invasive procedures, or radiation, but am pursuing this as if it is cancer. I find it hard to believe that someone with a PSA above 20 doesn’t have cancer. MRIs, even 3Ts, in my opinion are quite flawed.
If I remember correctly, it was treated with antibiotics. The conversation was a few years ago, but if I remember correctly, a tissue sample was taken from this person.
Thanks for sharing this info.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that PSA is prostate cancer. It is not. Before treatment, it is a pretty poor biomarker for prostate cancer - only a biopsy can tell you for sure. After treatment, it is an excellent biomarker for recurrent prostate cancer. But some types of prostate cancer put out little PSA; some put out quite a lot. Sometimes other biomarkers, like bone alkaline phosphatase, are more useful. Sometimes, only radiographic progression can be used.
(1) A guy in my support group had a PSA of over 10,000 and was functioning normally (he has since died).
(2) Yes, PSA can get very high (over 20) due to urinary retention, prostatitis, and BPH.
(3) For prostate cancer, PSA can be lowered by GnRH agonists or antagonist (Firmagon), antiandrogens, medicines the block the biochemical synthesis of androgens, or orchiectomy. For BPH, PSA can be lowered with Proscar. For prostatitis, PSA is usually unaffected by antibiotics, and will usually remit and relapse on its own.
(4) If a person is healthy (ie, doesn't have prostate cancer), the reason for treating BPH is so he can pee better. If a person is unhealthy (i.e., has prostate cancer), it is usually asymptomatic at first. Later,it causes pain, fractures, loss of organ function, and death. Lowering PSA is NOT the reason to treat(PSA is just a biomarker). The reason to treat is to prevent or delay suffering and early death. Some men can use active surveillance if they only have low risk PC.
Thanks for the info!
Appreciate the info. Although I question whether men with BPH are in fact “healthy”. I’m well aware that this is a very common problem for aging men. But I find it hard to believe that BPH is just a matter of course in an aging man. There’s a reason the prostate grows uncontrollably and presses on the urethra. I believe consumption of hormones/antibiotics (via poultry or red meat for example) and xenoestrogens (via plastics) to be one possible answer. Using household chemicals, pesticides on lawns and teflon pans may be another answer. Teflon is highly toxic (watch the 2019 documentary “Dark Waters”, it will blow your mind). Tap water in many municipalities is also highly toxic.
My answers are based on my own experience:
Until May10,2019, I was running 5 miles a day, working full time and doing everything a healthy man does.. having fun and playing soccer in Sarasota. I suddenly developed urinary symptoms leading to urinary retention. My PSA was found to be 830. Diagnosed with PCa with some bone mets. I reviwed my old medical charts and discovered that I have been living a great life with very high PSA for many years, (PSA in 2014=42 In 2015 =50.8, In 2016= 104, In 2017=142, In 2018=164) And I had no clue....my Primary doctor's physician asst never bothered to inform me and I assumed evrything is fine as I feel so normal. As of today, I have no explanation why I didnot have symptoms to alert me except some backache off and on.
Its very individual..some people have severe symptoms with PSA of 5 or 6 ,others like me keep chugging along fine with PSA in 100s.
Bike riding, sex, infection(prostatitis) etc can cause elevation in PSA. Meds to lower PSA ? I will need a few pages to answer that question so I defer.
BTW, Now my PSA has come down to 0.2 with meds.big dietary changes and supplement and daily excercise.
BTW, Now my PSA has come down to 0.2 with meds.big dietary changes and supplement and daily excercise.
QUESTION: What meds helped th BEST to bring your PSA down to 0.2. (Also, what supplements?)
Thanks for your help!
Free Tune up (of the brain)
My PSA dropped from 830 to 242 within 10 days of being on antibiotics and Casodex (bicalutamide) then, Casodex was stopped and Lupron-,Zytiga and Prednisone was started and in about 7 months time, PSA came down to 0.2. I have not needed Surgery,Chemo or Radiation as of now and I am symptom free. Can;t say about future.
Please read my past posts .I have provided lot of details about vegan diet,supplemets and walking long walk in those post. I am a believer in comprehensive treatment of PCa and not just meds.
Why did you not choose radiation?
I never needed it . I never had bone pain. My MO also thought if there is no bone pain..there is no need for Radiation. I went straight to Lupron +Zytiga +Prednisone.
I have terrible pain and Mets to every bone, MO said I can't have radiation because they cannot radiate the whole body. I went to see a pain specialist, she ordered an MRI to see if they can do Radiation to my Femurs where the most damage was done as it got into the Marrow there. She also doubled my Opioids and Nuerontin but it's done little to ease the pain. She is off sick and not had the results to the MRI, I will see the MO on Friday and hope he can enlighten me to the MRI results. It will also be my first blood test since my subcapsular orchiectomy surgery in Nov, I always get a little anxious at these blood test times, specially as the pain is slowly increasing and it's been 9 months since I finished Chemo, MO said the Chemo should last between 9 to 15 months. I don't think I have a whole lot of treatment options with the level of progression I have, just keeping fingers crossed PSA remains stable.
I'm happy you have no pain, I wouldn't wish this on anyone
Zeta, I wish all your pain go away..lets hope MRI results come good. We need to do what medical doctors think can help us best. praying for your healing.
Pain Doctor has been away sick so my Oncologist gave me the MRI results on Friday, it doesn't show that much difference from the PET scan (extensive bone damage specially to Fermurs), most important thing I picked up on is my spine is fine. I will see pain Dr start of Feb so not too long to wait.
Bad news is as I suspected the Chemo only lasted 9 months (MO said between 9 to 15 months) and PSA is on the rise, so I will start Radium 223 treatment next, which may also help with the pain.
Not the best news but still got some treatment options, I'll just have to suck it up and get on with it.
Dear LearnAll,
Can I ask which dietary changes you have made?
BR
Jesper from Denmark
Dear Jurasuje,
Some basic principles of anti cancer diet which I use are:
(1) NO meat of any kind and no eggs, seafood or any animal body parts.
(2) Minimum amount of Rice/Wheat or any grains.
(3) Almost No processed food or eating out in Restouraets
(4) No sodas or fruit juices of any kind.
(5) I do not use sugar , I use Xylitol for tea.
(6) A gap of atleast 10 hours between last meal and first meal of the day.
(7) First drink in morning: Cut pieces of Ginger, Soursop leaves, Guava leaves and Moringa leaves, boil in a cup of water for 5 minutes ,filter and drink.
(8) Second drink in morning: Back tea with small amount of milk and Xylitol. I add a 1/4 spoon of EGCG powder (available at Amazon) . It does make the tea bitter but is very good.
(i9) Oils I use are: Avacado oil, Olive oil, Flax seed oil, Sesame seed oil,) for Lentil soup (Moong beans ,Kidney beans, Chickpeas, Green peas and other pulsesOne cruciferous veggy is must each day..it can be cauliflower, brocolli, cabbage or radishes. Pieces of garlic in dishes.
(10) A big cup of home made yogurt from fat free milk..Add spices and herbs..I put a pinch of turmeric powder, Lycopene powder, Pomegranade seed powder, Grapefood seed powder,, rosemary powder, oragano and Dan shen (a chinese root powder)
All the dietray changes, I supplement with excercise, I walk atleast 4 miles a day. 3 times a week in Gym doing weights on machines. Only drink: Water or Tea, Body weight goal should be to get to your ideal weight. Add Stretching/ Yoga to your routine.
This is working well for me along with Lupron,Zytiga and Predni(5mg) a day. This is for information only and is not a substitute for medical advice. Check with your doctor first.
Wow, that is extreme, I ate a healthy Mediterranean diet my whole life, no Red meats, etc, and I still got the most lethal form of PC, NEPC, Genetics disposition, I eat everything in moderation now and follow a basic heart healthy diet not going to stop living the time I have left.
What about whole grains and thanks for all the info.
Whole grains are better. But even whole grains should be eaten in limited quantity as they too increase inflammation in our body. The biggest part of our meal should be fiber rich vegetables and fruits and lentils, chickpeas and green beans Moong beans etc.. We get enough protein from pulses and lentils and they are loaded with micronutrients and minerals. . This also keeps our weight low and lipids lower.
To minimize sodium intake, i use "low salt" which is 50% sodium and 50% potassium. Still i use this in minimum needed amount as Zytiga can increase BP and sodium makes it worse.
how the hell did the not tell you the high pas scores years ago? terrible news. sorry
Billyboy3,
Medical errors are third leading cause of death in USA according to Johns Hopkins research.
I was seeing Primary Doctor ''s PA only once a year for annual check up. If no phone call received after the check up ,I assumed everything should be fine.
I have learnt my lesson now. Every lab test now has to go thru my eyes and I do not believe medical system blindly anymore.
sad story but mine is the same but I got lucky at least, and did not have my psa go high, might have missed a cure by six months but such is life.
You are right about screws, scary stuff, which is why we have to be involved in our care and keep on top of the entire scene. I am now in year 20 so I cannot nor will not complain, as I got very very lucky to date, and no matter the side effects and major damage that has been done to my body and mind, I am still here while so many of my pals have died. We started with seven of us apc guys building hot rods to pass the time and now only two of use left. Good luck pal, live large, where do you live? I go south for tours a lot so who we might meet up for a beer or???
When I was diagnosed Nov 2018 my PSA was 1386, after Chemo last May it dropped to 0.028 and has stayed there since.
I wouldn't say I'm healthy lifestyle if I was to compare with before diagnosis but I'm alive and still active in Sports, walking and family life. Pain holds me back a little but I keep pushing back.
I've heard there isn't a top PSA value. I'm Dx at over 1300 in Jun 2018 and now <4 with Lupron ADT. A member of my local support group was over 5000 at Dx over 6 years ago with lots of ups and downs still fighting the good fight.
For some PSA is a great marker, for others not so much. Gain knowledge about YOU and form YOUR judgements carefully.
2Dee
PSA is a pretty poor biomarker for diagnosing prostate cancer, an elevated PSA indicates that something may be wrong but it can be prostatitis, infection, BPH or PCa.
It is even possible to have prostate cancer and have a PSA level in the normal range.
There is a vague correlation between Gleason Score and PSA levels, the lower the score the more PSA the cancer cells may produce. I think this is because that they are still trying to act like prostate cells whereas high score cells have given up on that and are being malignant little barstewards!
As there is also a correlation between the size of the tumour and the PSA I suspect that the man with the highest PSA would have a grade 6 or 7 cancer. These cancers tend to grow into neighbouring organs like the bladder etc and can get very large before forming distant metastases.
It is a better bio marker post treatment, you can live with a low PSA level for years, it is when it starts rising that you have to start worrying because something is on the move!
"they are still trying to act like prostate cells"
Very true. Its like law abiding civilians who are trying to be criminals but still doing their duty as responsible civilians...in case of cancer cells ...still producing a lot of PSA.
The other prostate cancer cells who have become fully criminal and do not do their regualr duty of producing much PSA...In other words..they have lost their identity and character as prostate cells and have become criminals of worst kind...causing havoc with our bones, organd and blood cells. Very high Gleason is hallmark of these fullfledge criminal cancer cells.(not PSA)
there is little direct correlation between psa and gleason. One can have a low Gleason but high levels of that grade of pc, so his psa score would then be much higher.
I have a rare form called intraductal carcinoma. It is known for not putting out much PSA. My PSA didn't increase gradually, it jumped from 2 to 216 in 13 months, and I had tumors in bones all over my torso. Biopsy showed the left side of my prostate was all but cancer free, it was all in the right half. Have noticed that all the stories here are extremely different? 
I also had an unrelared bladder cancer diagnosis a week later. Had surgery for that, radiation for a met in my spine, Lupron, chemo, Xgeva, Abiraterone. PSA is now undetectable, ALP dropped from >800 to low 40s, and I ran a half marathon on the anniversary of my diagnosis. Still have a bit of pain but it's s usually well controlled with Celebrex.
"Free Tune Up" is right: there are dozens and dozens of references to PSA in HealthUnlocked. Use the Search feature above -- the magnifying glass icon -- and you will find many answers.
PSA by itself means nothing except it is a marker of biologic activity from the prostate gland.
I've been around 30 for 18 months. I feel great, though struggle with urine retention due to prostate size.
I know a survivor who has gone above 2000 and he is still doing well after many years.
I have no explanation,m but I have heard of some men having high numbers who were still functional and doing well. I have to assume that it is not that common, but I'm no expert on this one .....
not to provide bad news but as one reaches the end stage, i.e. death from advanced prostate cancer, the psa can redouble daily and the numbers reach the high five figures, as ones body becomes totally consumed by pc cells. It is indeed hell!!!! which is why one must, must get early medically approved treatments at the earliest, unless through old age or poor health preclude drugs etc.
Tall_Allen and billyboy are pretty grim in your post. Where is j-o-h-n? I desperately need a laugh.
Just talking about BPH and higher PSA levels, higher being above 2.0 but not as high as ~7, I like PAE prostate artery embolization to shrink the prostate.
1,000-patient study indicates prostate artery embolization remains effective for years
interventionalnews.com/1000...
This sort of procedure appeals to me for BPH. Though for PCA I should think it has some positive effect but still limited.
Low PSA with High Grade Cancer (Gleason 9)
Acceptable PSA
Stage 4 +4 PSA down from 370 to 0.08
PSA and Testosterone 
Pygeum and PSA
