BAT Treatment

[Fairwind]

Has anyone tried the "BAT" treatment for advanced PC ? BAT involves getting monthly testosterone injections (400mg) while you also are on Lupron. Were you able to get this treatment outside of a clinical trial ? If so, how did it work for you ?

[Kimmilemo]

My husband was given testosterone patch’s to wear after he was done with his radiation and two years of Lupron shots. I’m not for sure why he stopped unsung them but he did. He did stay cancer free for a total of 9 years 10 months from first diagnosis to next diagnosis. We just did a SP that has had complications and waiting to see what’s next. I’m sure someone on here will know the answer..

I know in Europe they treat with testosterone but I would I saw someone on here that showed a study of it not being successful ?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Kimmilemo]

The outstanding question is - in what situations it makes things worse and in what situations it might improve outcomes.

[Fairwind]

I have talked to Dr. Demeade and received his blessing...This is a simple, basic, low-risk procedure. It either works or it doesn't ..In trials so far it has worked quite well. It can be done outside a trial and avoid all the restrictions and requirements imposed..Demeade warned me that those with bone pain would probably suffer increased bone pain. But if you are pain-free now, the BAT is unlikely to cause any new pain..

When you are running out of options and the ones remaining offer very little in the way of life extension, why not try a simple low-risk procedure that might prove successful at low cost?? There is very little downside here..The trick is to find a doctor willing to do it or at least write the script for the testosterone..

[Fairwind]

Denver area...We have talked on another forum....

[George71]

I am considering doing the Dr. Bob Liebowitz protocol.

It appears better than BAT. He has men on high T for over 10 years who had PSA of 1500 with heavy bone mets.

He explains it in the video link below.

compassionateoncology.org/v...

[Lombardi24 in reply to George71]

Unfortunately insurance doesn't cover it as it's not standard of care.

[Hidden in reply to George71]

Hi,

I've reviewed the video and the High T (Dr. Bob) and BAT treatments will be on my radar, making sure current with latest information and evidence. Just started treatment for PCa (Lupron 6 month, Zytiga 1000mg and Prednisone 10g - significant pelvic metastasis)

I'm a bit concern regarding Dr, Bob's lack of transparency and smugness. Although worked many years in clinical research - field of bioinformatics/software development, so know very well, principle investigators are in a smug league of their own.

Obviously, BAT has somewhat qualified Dr. Bobs' "private army" credibility.

So, is clinical trials too bureaucratic and tribalistic for our own good?. To be honest, I'm in the Boston, MA area, and could not "care" about Dana Faber's quality of services. Don't have blind faith with these heavily subsidized academic research institutions.

Here I go again, criticize Dr Bob's lack of transparency, but seem to lack faith for clinical research tribalism, thoughts?

[podsart]

As Nalakrats said Dr. Demeade at John Hopkins seems to be the lead person doing BAT. I think his latest trial is called TRANSFORMER and has a list of locations in US. As info about 1 year old not sure if still recruiting.

T seems to be biphasic; I view it somewhat like water which has 3 phases each with different properties , has a liquid phase , ice and steam phases. From what I read , below the Supra level it is bad for Pca but above that level it is good. At Supra levels, it seems to affect the AR: it’s volume, resisting deformation like the ARV7 variety and affects the transcription function perhaps.

He doesn’t want the pca to adapt so he “shocks” the Pca with alternating cycles of Supra T and castrate. Despite this, he sees some adaption of this cycle by Pca , which varies greatly by person. As a result of it’s beneficial effect on the AR it can re-sensitize the Pca to Xtandi, not sure of Zytiga. But the desensitization action seems to be less in duration than before you became Xtandi resistant.

He appears to get good result but since T is not patentable, Corp not interested. He had 2 small trials and think this transformer trial is larger with a bigger grant.

I am somewhat accidentally in the Supra T world. I was given Xtandi in 2/16 , with a rising but still low PSA , and went undetectable right away. The interesting thing is that my T soared to 1400 - 1600+ range-and has stayed there, despite my Xtandi dose now at 3 pills per week. My previous dr didn’t expect that to happen.

My HPB has been made worse. Was told it’s a SE of Xtandi, but may be because of the Supra T level from Xtandi action on the Pca . They think the T reaction is from the Xtandi which blocks and intereferes with Pca action on the AR in 3 ways. My current dr thinks it’s the T.

[kaptank]

Hi Fairwind, there are quite a few posts on BAT, just search HealthUnlocked. I recently posted my experience, search for DIY BAT.