Estrogen treatment stage 4: Stage... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Estrogen treatment stage 4

Searoemer
Searoemer

Stage 4 since 2003 5 Mets ccontrolled with estrogen 4 mg per day, eating fish and reducing animal products, and low dose naltrexone anyone out there with similar plan?

Charlie

14 Replies
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Hi Charlie, You have certainly done well. What other treatments have you done. When you say you are doing Estrogen is that DES 4 mg? Are you using any antocoagulation? What Country are you in?

Dan

Searoemer
Searoemer in reply to Dan59

USA. used Lupron then prostasol laced with DES then went to Rx DES. NO thinners. Since I unknowingly survived Donsbach’s quacky product MD thought I did not need thinner. Thanks for responding DAn. I am at a concert and will be turning phone off. I will look at your info later

Dan59
Dan59 in reply to Searoemer

3 mg DES was shown to have less of a blood clot issue than 5mg, In Older studies by Glode et al. I am surprised you are not using anticoagulation, Even if not just babyaspirin. I think it is a simple blood test to see if you are in danger of clotting. What is your current psa?

Dan

Searoemer
Searoemer in reply to Dan59

2.2.0. Up from 1.87. May be trending up. Testosterone 23. dihydroyesterone -5

Risk of stroke high when u start. I do take 81 mg aspirin because I have had 5 MI 2 CABG. I am 73yo first MI age 34. Not sure what keeps me going except lots of denial and a grip on life that is firm

Charlie,

Not on that protocol, but would like to know more about it.

For example...

What is the estrogenic agent that you are taking? When you say your mets are controlled with estrogen, how is that being assessed; i.e. by imaging? If so, what imaging are you getting and how often? Or is the control based on pain control?

How is naltrexone (an opioid blocker) supposedly helping?

Lastly, you say you are avoiding animals products, but fish are animals. So what animal products are you avoiding.

I guess I am overall interested in your treatment protocol and would like to know more.

Taking 1mg des. After 4 wks PSA dropped from 60 to 8. Taking nattozimes for anti coagulation.

Art T

Can you send tell us who and where your doctor is ?

Bob

That’s a hell of an accomplishment!! Please tell us more !

Bob

I did some reading on DES. Seems to be fairly effective for CRPC. The main drawbacks seem to be cardiovascular issues and gynocomastia. Here's one article on the subject.

They write: In conclusion, DES is an effective agent for treatment of CRPC, with an acceptable safety profile when administered together with antiplatelet or anticoagulation agents. Although responses are significantly shorter-lasting than the relatively long responses to first-line treatment with LH-RH analogs, DES stands out as an important and inexpensive therapeutic option for patients with CRPC. DES is especially important in patients who are not candidates for chemotherapy or as a therapeutic option preceding chemotherapy in patients with CRPC. Thromboprophylaxis is critical for the safe use of DES. The exact mechanism of action of DES in prostate cancer remains unclear and is most likely multifactorial. Further research is required to understand its role in CRPC and to establish its place in the treatment-sequence algorithm.

spandidos-publications.com/...

Dan59
Dan59 in reply to gregg57

DES was a mainstay at one time, It does require some anticoagulation in the higher doses such as 5 mg. Glode Et Al found that the Blood clot issue was greatly reduced by lowering the dose to 3mg. And also they did studies on lowering it to 1 mg daily which produced a 66% response in CRPC, and an even better safety profile. DES has to be compunded, PCRI has info on where to get it compunded. The cost is about $200 per year, so not very profitable. It is a good one for guys that have never used Estrogen to have in back pocket, and also those that can not afford the standard treatments. There was a Guy on the YANANOW.org site that was assumed to have passed, as it turned out he had far surpassed the time everyone thought he would die , and had been doing DES after all other treatments failed.

gregg57
gregg57 in reply to Dan59

Yes, I was reading that it was pretty much the standard treatment until castration replaced it in the early 1940s. It's not as effective as LHRH or orchiectomy, but as you say, a good "back pocket" option for CRPC. I would guess that it helps a lot with hot flashes. Anyone with experience?

It also a has benefit with helping to prevent bone breakdown which would make sense.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/117...

Dan59
Dan59 in reply to gregg57

It can be as effective as LHRH or Orchiotomy, and was used very much even just 5 or 10 years ago, check out this guys story, survived stage 4 for 13yrs 8 yrs on DES only. yananow.org/display_story.p...

I'm Rotten I would like more information on this. I'm planing to have prostate taken out. MRI and bone Scan said no signs of it has spread to bones or other organs. But I don't know how accurate those test are. If you can give me more information on this also. Or maybe someone else knows. Thank you

I had PSA of 3.3 after surgery and rising. Found a clinical oncologist and provided oncology literature for use of Estrogen patches. There is no risk of liver damage as is transdermal and started with x4 patches of .1 mg/24/hrs each with changes every 3.5 days and PSA went from 12 down to 1.4 over a three month period and all seemed good with virtually no adverse side effects apart from slight gynomastia. Testosterone went from 12 to 1.0 in same time frame.

Had Ga-58 PET scan in Berlin which identified 3 lower pelvic lymph node tumors. Radiation oncologist stepped in to say only radiation kills cancer and insisted on 35 radiation sessions. His view was to attack microscopic tumors which makes sense.

However after three weeks my PSA has suddenly risen from 1.2 to now 1.9.

My quandary is whether this is a flare due to radiation or is metastasis progressing in spite of radiation and Estrogen. Radiation oncologist wants to wait 2-3 years to determine if radiation has been effective and I feel I may need to get another Ga-598 PET scan to know if cancer has spread to other locations.

Anyone have experience of PSA increase with salvage radiation?

Peter

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