Holy Cow....In 25% of Advanced PCa Zytiga Makes The Cancer More Aggressive

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  • My head is all over the place after reading this. My husband has been taking Zytga for 2 weeks. We'll see how it goes. Decisions, decisions!!

  • Don't get aggravated over this BS post.

  • This is more than a little misleading. It makes sense that the cancer will become resistant to whatever treatment you are doing, but that's hardly a reason not to do it. So we shouldn't take Zytiga and add years to our lives because it makes the cancer become resistant to it?

    What's the purpose of this post? To get an emotional response over something that's irrelevant?

  • Agree with you 110%. Sadly this group has members who insist on ringing the bell of doom. Thing is, most of these bell ringers are NOT in stage 4.

  • That's right nameless9999. Once you are stage 4, you are done playing petty games.

  • I agree.

  • Thank you.

  • If you read the companys site, it only claims to add months for most anyway. Those who get years from it probably have slow growing cancer perhaps?

  • Charlean,

    right on - the small minds up here can't comprehend the research..they are not saying Zytiga does not work but that in advanced PCa 25% have a worse outcome...this study is right on....I remember Cancersucks whose PCa exploded after Zytiga

    Gus

  • So did my husbands.

  • Some of those who get years from Zytiga have aggressive cancers. It's specifically the type of cancer cells that determines how well it works.

    With every treatment option we have we face the same possibility of failure, either immediately or sometime in the future. Everything has the potential to work for years, or just a few months.

    We shouldn't get discouraged over this. It's like survival statistics. Everyone is an individual.

    Sooner or later every treatment option will fail, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying what's available. We buy as much time as we can, that's all anyone can do.

  • Good post. I guess I should pursue genetic testing.

  • That is absolutely not the case in results of the Stampede trial. Abiraterone plus Zoladex have been a game changer. I’ve been taking Zytiga as part of the Stampede trial for 6 years. It has extended my life by 5 of those years.

  • What is happening to this blog? Pathetic!!!

    Sisira

  • Only sometimes, Sisira. Look at the date.

    Joe

  • This article in Science Daily has no value and should not have been published. It draws conclusions that are not supported by the research.

    1- The study was in mice, not men. Never draw conclusions about humans from animal studies. Animal studies inform further human study which then can be used by us in directing our treatment decisions.

    2- Zytiga is NOT an anti-androgen. The anti-androgens we use are Casodex and Xtandi.

    3- We all know that all of our treatments are eventually rendered useless because resistance builds up to the drugs. This resistance flows over to other treatments. This is not new. Understanding the science is important as it will give us clues on how to combat this resistance in the future, but it should not inform our current decisions.

    Bottom Line- Do not let this poorly written article influence your treatment decisions today.

    Joel

    CancerABCs.org

  • Thanks Joel. I'm suspicious about the motivation behind posting this article, but the facts of the matter are what's important.

  • Joel, I strongly agree with most that you have written and standard care agrees with all that you have written. However, as a Stage 4 Prostate Cancer Survivor, I do take personal issue with the first two sentences of a Point 3. In July 2004, I participated in a six month treatment trial using more than the standard Taxol or Taxotere chemotherapy drugs.

    In February 2010, I was able to stop injections of Lupron/Eligard. In January 2012, I started using a very low dose of Androgen twice weekly. With the exception of testosterone, I have not taken any drug associated with a Prostate Cancer.

    I remain with a PSA of less than 0.1, no scan evidence of cancer, and a testosterone of 450 to 550 since. Until November 2016, when nuclear bone and soft tissue CT scans show again no cancer, I changed my reality of "delaying cancer" to that of cured. I am in total agreement with my Medical Oncologist Researcher in an academic setting. I reminder his original words, "Any way that I slice and dice the mice, the cancer is gone."

    I believe that at some point in the future that the trial in which I and others participated will set a new standard of care that aggressively attacks, prostate cancer while the body is strong and the tumor burden minimal. I am most fortunate to be a member of the cohort with this hypothesis. I recognize that this trial could have gone south, like most trials, yet at 70 years of age, I am enjoying life free from worry.

    Until then Brothers, keep kicking cancer's butt. Keep Hope and keep Prayer in your heart. Stay positive when those around let negativity in.

    Gourd Dancer

  • Gourd Dancer,

    I hope that your statement that you take personal issue with my first two sentences in point three doesn't mean that you were offended, just that you disagree.

    First, I want to say that good for you and how you have responded. I join with you and hope that there will be a follow-up looking at what you have done.

    Over the years I have become a very evidence-based cancer thriver. I have seen time and again that what seems logical and reasonable does not mean that it is really how things work.

    At this point in time, my reading of the evidence is as I stated. This does not mean that additional research will show that alternative treatments will not cause resistance or that even there are not outliers for whom the general trends just don't tell their story.

    For me, I hope that I am an outlier, of course on the better side of the curve, that is the very reason that we do not get too involved in being concerned about clinical trial survival benefit times which for prostate cancer still remain measured in months. These benefits are the median and only speak to the group trend, never to us as an individual.

    I may be confusing the issue here, sorry if I have.

    Joel

    cancerabcs.org

  • Gourd,

    you are one of the smartest guys up here..you did what I have been advocating...hit the PCa real aggressively up front and not follow the sequential use of drugs, failing one after the other, and becoming castrate resistant.

    Gus

  • Joel,

    I also noticed the term anti-androgen but T is an androgen and a drug that blocks T production would be an anti-androgen. They did not state blocking access to the androgen receptors

    Gus

  • Why is it you came out of your cave when Joel responded? Look at this thread and check out your masterpiece. Why?

  • Sorry Gus. You're still cool with me. Just be sensible please.

    Joe

  • BS

  • Gus, Please do not bother posting these mouse studies, as far as I know none of us are mice, and mouse studies do not mean much to humans. I got 14 months out of zytiga, that after being pretreated with ketoconazole, all the experts said zytiga would not work after ketoconazole.

    How is your xtandi experiment going?

  • All drug studies begin with mice and I follow these studies closely. If you wait until something is proven in phase III clinical trials it is to late if the result is negative. I am 9 years out from a G 4+3....my PSA is .24 with just avodart + metformin and a supplement cocktail. My only goal is to prevent crPCa ...my next experiment will be Xtandi/BAT to lower PSA to <.1 and prevent crPCa. Some "experts" up here have pointed out I don't have stage 4 crmPCa....that is the whole point....I don't have crmPCa following my method, while they do...case closed

    Gus

  • Gus,

    Mouse studies are very important and they do inform future human studies and might well inform an individual's decisions as they do for you. This is good because you understand that the research has only been in animals and not humans. Making an informed decision, as you do, to move on an animal study is fine as long as like you do, understand that it has not been demonstrated in humans.

    I am concerned when there is an animal study and someone presents it as if it has been proven in humans. Not everyone is as well informed or careful as you. We need to be careful and clear when in this type of forum. Forums like this really need clarity so not to confuse less informed members.

    Joel

    cancerabcs.org

  • Joel,

    I understand but the article clearly stated the results were based on mouse studies...on the other side you have posters dismissing the article out of hand and bragging they got 14 months on Zytiga before they progressed to crPCa..are they really better off to have the fatal form of the disease...no question Zytiga is the way to go if you are already castrate resistant.

    Gus

  • Gus, I think your whole purpose on this site is to aggravate people on the list, and cause controversy. Here you go again citing mouse studies as proven facts to Nameless and I, and your words to Joe were uncalled for. If you believe in mouse studies this one you post says 75% of men have a good response to zytiga, those that don't, their cancer progresses and naturally becomes more aggresive. I am not bragging as you said , just the facts. I was hormone refractory 4 years before I used zytiga! There are very few options we have in CRMPca and Zytiga is a great option. Your mouse study flies in the face of proven phase 3 studies, and so much research.

  • Gus, I am glad you are able to control your cancer with no therapy. Others of us may have had much more significant dx.

    I do not have much faith in mouse studies, as Snuffy told me long ago, You are not a mouse, and mouse studies rarely mean anything in Humans. Time to get off the computer, and go live my life with no thoughts of Cancer.

    Good luck on your xtandi experiment

  • Gusgold, some of us were initially diagnosed with stage 4. We never had a chance to follow your method.....case closed. Btw, I'm a man not a mouse.

  • that's right..buy you were not initially diagnosed with stage 4 castrate resistant PCa..the fatal form caused by Zytiga.

  • You are saying Zytiga causes castrate resistance? Actually, it's the opposite. Zytiga is what people use after they become castrate resistant. Yes, it doesn't work for everyone just like anything else.

    By the way, "this works for me" doesn't prove anything. A sample size of 1 is meaningless. My diet regimen and supplements keep elephants out of my kitchen too.

  • BS..Zytiga is now rec'd before castrate resistance.

  • Yes, we just got the results this year of the Zytiga arm of the STAMPEDE trial and the LATITUDE trial. But the results of those extensive trials don't support your narrow viewpoint. Sorry, but the exception is not the rule.

    And chemo and radiation cause cancer so we shouldn't use those either. I hear these kinds of comments all the time from people who are either healthy or have cancer with low risk/remission. They are experts because "it worked for me" is the scientific trial involving one person that offers definitive proof.

  • You can't be castrate resistant until failure of first line treatment. Right? Zytiga has nothing to do with it. Yet.

  • Well, Gus, I'm glad I'm not a mouse.

  • I'm a lot more like a mouse after starting Lupron.

  • I am your friend Joe.

  • How many times can I like this?

  • How about those Eagles! Huh? Fly Eagles Fly...On the road to victory!

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