The following is directly from medscape.com:

"The median time to symptomatic progression after a rise in PSA level of more than 4 ng/mL is approximately 6-8 mo, with a median time to death of 12-18 mo

Symptomatic patients have a median survival of 1 y"

Really? Is this right? This is very discouraging. Comments or context would be appreciated.

Thank you for all that you do.

John

22 Replies

Statistics can be dangerous things. Since my surgery 10 years ago, my PSA has been as low as undetectable and as high as 40. It's currently >11. Everyone reacts differently to treatments. Please don't feel like the statistics will govern your result.

Absolute bull sh,,,

Then I'm dead...and this ain't heaven.

Lmao

Please do not try to handicap a timeline based on statistics. Patients respond differently in the real world. In order to make a statement like that there would need to a sample size and then a statistical analysis preformed with some type of mathematical formula usually to prove a point or justify an assumption. So sample error and variable assumption error make these useless for treatment decisions but possibly helpful to get a treatment approved by showing a survival benefit from this statistical population.

Statistics are group trends, they do not speak to an individual. Too many of us are alive and kicking many, many more years than the stats you quoted, so....

Joel

The quote is apparently from this "Treatment Protocols" article:

emedicine.medscape.com/arti...

I find the quoted statement near the bottom of the lengthy article under the heading "Management of castration-recurrent prostate cancer".

Ditto of everyone's comments above plus many of the stats are 5-10 years old. Studies take awhile. Plus, there have been new treatments developed to hopefully help extend our lives. Additionally, we're a bunch of tough sons of bitches that won't go easily into the night! Eff cancer!! Hang in there John. We're your band of brothers.

If I could add another cheerful note? Towards the end of my 10 chemo cycle 18 months post DX @ 200 PSA, Gleason 5+4, T4, I sat waiting for my Onco Consultant. The door opened and a Specialist Registrar (I asked him his position) entered looking lost. After a few minutes I asked if I could help him. He looked at his folders and said he was due to see a David Butler. I told him he was looking at me. He checked the files and I quote 'but these files show you're seriously ill !. You don't look I'll ! I said ' I don't feel ill and if you go to the chemo ward after chatting to me you will find lots of other PCa guys living the same upfront life.'. 3 months later the SpR made full consultant and led a different life among his patients. Yes, we need to be tough sons of bitches physically and emotionally and guys like you and the positive approach of this forum keep us up there and bring newbies quickly into the fold. Thanks to all.

Thank you all so much for words that put some sanity to what seemed like a grave situation. I am grateful.

John

First of all. don't give in an inch to fear. These statistics aren't complied by some far superior being that flew in from another galaxy and assigned life spans to all us humans. They are complied by people just like you and me with one notable exception, they don't have to time to examine case by case and come up with true numbers. Many of them are driven by greed that the pharmaceutical companies create. They throw everything into the soup. Do you have high blood pressure, diabetes? Are you obese? Do you drink and smoke like an 17th century sailer on shore leave? Do you kill your neighbor cows and eat them half raw? Do the cats in your neighborhood end up baking at 350 degrees in your oven stuffed with shake and bake? My point is that it's impossible to assign a life span to you. Sure, someday you will hook up a set of wings and take to the sky, but that day isn't 18 months away. Think in terms of 18 years. Your mind controls your body, don't let some wacko in a white jacket freak you out. Most of them see dollar signs when they look at you because of the pressure put on them by the department heads. If it weren't for laws regarding violence I would slap the sh*t out of half of them on my way out the door, especially the ones who act as though they are the hand of God. They look at flow charts and determine whats next. Educate yourself and take charge These oncologists weren't hatched in a special incubator, they are just like you and me.

I just had to add an experience I had with a pulmonologist. As my T dropped, and any muscle mass I did have vanished, I got much weaker. I started having breathing problems when I took a shower. I would be out of it for about a half hour or so. I had three breathing tests, and all came back normal. I did have some emphysema, and I was Dx with COPD, so the lung guy puts me on 2 inhalers. About six months later, still suffering with breathing, I had my chest muscles, what remained any way, spasm. I went to see my docs partner, and I wound up in the Cardiac section. I quit the inhalers that day.

The end story is that the lung guy went down a list directly from his computer screen in an attempt to Dx me. It was a joke. Today, I laugh about it, but it wasn't funny at all. I went to rehab too. After a few visits, I found out it was becoming a "good story", among the workers. Did you ever try to explain no T to a dolt?

Joe

Been there, done that. I had an oncologist fellow admit he used Google in order to arrive at an explanation for me when I mentally cornered him. You know, " I will be right back I need to consult with my team". BS, he didn't know.

What if you get radiation and so?

does that mean I have to give back the 15 or so years since my psa went from .4 to 10? Admittedly, I had had seeds + XBRT for GS3+3. But I've been on IAD-3 for 15+ years.

H

I was diagnosed with prostate cancer on 1-7-2005. Had Radical Prostatatomy on 2-28-2005 Chemotherapy, 36 days of Radiation Therapy and 3 years of Hormonal Therapy. And when the surgeon did the operation told me that the cancer had moved into my Lymph Nodes but even with all that I never gave up! I kept my positive attitude all these years! That was 12 years ago and I am still here! My PSA IS .1< undetectable!

Hey Jeff,

Did your doc's know whether the lymph nodes were involved prior to surgery? Mine did, so I still have the bastard. Their theory was that "the horse was already out of the barn". In hindsight, I would have had it removed. My prostate may not have grown bigger on the outside, but grew on the inside and choked off my urethra. It was Dx in Feb '13, but I was never told, nor treated. It was a rough few years. As a matter of fact, I passed some scabs and blood this morning, meaning my bladder is still healing.

Happy Days going forward, Joe

No the doctor did not know until he did lymph node dissection and I was told until I saw him about 1 week later! You will be ok! Be positive be strong and never give up and you will make through tough times just like I did! God bless you Joe! I will pray for you!

Jeff

Fantastic Outlook! Congratulations on your success with undetectable psa. 17 Jan I go for my 4th Lupron (scheduled 6 month injection).

It has kept the cancer controlled in the lymph nodes & spine.

The psa has remained undetectable-down from 37.7. Every time get a good psa I plan something for the 2nd six month period i.e. I have cruise planned for Mar 2017 it was scheduled Mar 2016 and I plan

to attend a reunion for my Navy Ship (Destroyer: USS Hamner DD718) in Oct 2017. A wise young doctor told me "always have a significant event on your horizon". It has worked well for me since 2009. I think it is important to be positive about tomorrow and not allow your life be defined by prostate cancer today!

Excellent positive thinking! I was on Lupron 2 times in my life and it worked great! But now I am on Eligard and it is working great too! The reason for change is because the hospital changed vendors. The first time I was on it a urologist gave me the shot and now a gorgeous nurse gives me my shot which makes me a very happy man! I wish you good luck Del!

The men on here,alone, prove that it's an outdated stat, and that somehow we need to upstage the stats in a Google search that only discourages. That crap brought me to tears every night when I first began researching. Tg for this group . I hope it helps you to never give up. Wishing You well and in 3 years get back to me so I could wish you well again. Lol

In his book "Never Say Die'', former prominent Australian Head and Neck Cancer surgeon, Dr Chris O'Brien,who himself was diagnosed in 2006 with a terminal brain tumour, recalls a conversation he had with a good friend and fellow cancer surgeon, Dr Brian McCaughan,soon after his diagnosis. He said to Dr McCaughan "You know they've given me 12 months!" and Dr McCaughan's reply was, " Chris that's utter bullshit and both you and I as doctors know it! It's not up to us how long a patient survives, it's up to the PATIENT!.

This has always stuck in my mind.

Hang in there!