searching natural treatment approaches that are not prohibitively expensive

[wellness]

Interested in locating effective natural treatment approaches for advanced prostate cancer that will not bankrupt me.

[PhillyProstate]

I've been taking a baby aspirin and 2,000 units of vitamin D3

[pjoshea13]

Hi Wellness,

I have been using otc "natural" products for a dozen years.  I still have PCa, so, obviously, am not expecting a cure - nor did I ever.  What I do believe is that they can help manage the disease to some degree.  The mean time to failure of conventional therapies is such, than any delay is welcome.  I have had a single osteoblastic lesion at L5 (treated with radiation), but no others so far.  I have avoided Lupron & so on, but have no illusions about doing so forever.

I think that many men with PCa try various things, but stop or scale back when they begin ADT.  On the other hand, patients of Dr. Myers are encouraged to take certain natural products - someone here might have the current list.  Myers also recommends "unnatural" products: Metformin & statins, & there is a strong case for both IMO.  Some men who would never use a statin, nonetheless take red yeast rice, the original source of lovastatin, & some use berberine instead of metformin.

The first thing to tackle is inflammation.  PCa is an inflammatory disease, due to chronic activation of NF-kB (nuclear factor-kappaB).  Activatation causes the production of a wide array of survival-related proteins.  Some are enzymes that act on arachidonic acid [AA] to produce inflammatory eicosanoids, such as prostaglandin, thromboxane and leukotrienes.

AA is stored in the lipid rafts of PCa cells.  It is an omega-6 fatty acid.  If the diet contains ~4 grams of marine omega- fatty acids (EPA+DHA), PCa lipid rafts will have less of a pro-inflammatory profile.  It's a good starting point.

Nonetheless, NF-kB is the main problem.  Remarkably, plant polyphenols, that have quite varied effects on cancer cells, all seem to inhibit NF-kB.  They are generally well-tolerated.  There might even be synergy between some of them - certainly additive value.

The appropriate dose, to my mind, is one that keeps albumin at 4.5 or higher.  Albumin <4.0 is associated with poor survival.

Another marker of inflammation is C-reactive protein (CRP).  CRP should be as close to zero as possible.

With albumin & CRP blood tests, we have a way to monitor inflammation & find the best dose of polyphenols.

Recognize that the polyphenols will be at levels where these antioxidants become pro-oxidant.  This is a good thing IMO.  The major approach to killing PCa cells involves the generation of ROS (reactive oxygen species.)  "Pure" antioxidants such as NAC (& alpha lipoic acid, I believe) are to be avoided, since they negate the other supplements.  It is standard to use NAC in PCa-polyphenol studies - the addition of NAC abrogates the benefit, proving that the benefit was due to ROS.

A poor omega-6:3 ratio is not only pro-inflammatory, it is also pro-thrombotic.  Doctors know that cancer increases the risk of clots, but they lack preemptive tools, so countless men ultimately end up in ER with leg pain & have to take warfarin for 6 months, or perhaps forever.  There are a number of coagulation mechanisms at play, & one should not rely on omega-3 & vitamin E for protection.  There is a theory that metastasis can only occur if there are circulating microclots.  

Nattokinase mimics the action of plasmin, the enzyme that degrades blood clots.  Plasmin acts slowly, as it must.  But in the absence of internal bleeding, there should be no clot to dissolve.  Unfortunately, DVTs & even microclots accrue too fast for plasmin.

The starting point in keeping clots away is a D-dimer test.  It can be elevated for different reasons, but is always elevated when there is an active clot.  ERs do the test when someone has chest pain, to rule out a clot.

If D-dimer is elevated, it is prudent to take nattokinase to accelerate clot degradation.  In the short term, D-dimer would rise, but ultimately fall.  If D-dimer is as close to zero as the test returns, a prophylactic dose to target supposed microclots is prudent.

Nattokinase (& plasmin) dissolve fibrin, which is present only in clots.  The precursor to fibrin is fibrinogen, which represents clotting potential.  Fibrinogen will be elevated when there is inflammation, but should otherwise be in the normal range.  Nattokinase has been shown to lower fibrinogen.  I once dipped just below the normal range.

For men with numerous mets, it might seem pointless to target microclots, but I don't think so.

A periodic D-dimer (& perhaps fibrinogen) test is essential - don't expect the dose shown on the nattokinase label to necessarily be protective when there is cancer.

Men diagnosed with PCa have increased CVD risk, & this is worsened by ADT.  Men on ADT & warfarin are doubly unfortunate in not being able to take vitamin K2 supplements.  Vitamin K is involved with calcium transport from blood to bone.  Without adequate K, circulating calcium will be elevated leading to arterial calcification.  But elevated calcium is itself a risk factor for PCa progression.

I was so anxious to get off Warfarin (I had two DVTs in my left leg) that my doctor agreed to me going off warfarin after 3 months, instead of 6.  I explained why I thought K2 was important in PCa, & said that I wanted to try nattokinase.  That was 5 years ago.

The most memorable K2 study involed the Heidelberg cohort of the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Heidelberg) [1] (2008).

"During a mean follow-up time of 8.6 y, 268 incident cases of prostate cancer, including 113 advanced cases, were identified. We observed a nonsignificant inverse association between total prostate cancer and total menaquinone {K2} intake ... {35% risk reduction}... The association was stronger for advanced prostate cancer {63% risk reduction.}"

"To the best of our knowledge, this report provides the first analysis of observational data on the association between dietary intake of vitamin K and the risk of prostate cancer. With higher intakes of menaquinones {K2}, prostate cancer risk decreased; this association was significant for advanced prostate cancer, especially with MK-5–9 provided by dairy products. In contrast, phylloquinone {K1} intake was not related to prostate cancer."

Alas, dairy products are not an option in PCa, I feel.  The LEF product has 200 mcg of MK-7 (menaquinone-7):

lifeextension.com/Vitamins-...

There are many more topics, but that's all for now.

-Patrick

[1]  ajcn.nutrition.org/content/...

 

  

[wellness in reply to pjoshea13]

Patrick ii was SO generous of you to put so much time into this.  Thank you.  I had stopped taking K2 but will start again.  I am doing blood ozone treatment, which is only available in a handful of places in USA, one of them being where I live.  I also take turmeric and other herbs which are antiinflammatory, and I eat a vegan diet.  So I feel I am on the right track. I am always open to new information.  BTW you might want to look at salvestrol.  several people cured themselves using 30000 units per day (15 capsules), together with 1 g of turmeric extract, 200 mcg selenium, and 8 drops of lugols solution.  I got this from a naturopath.  I cannot currently use it because it interferes with the blood ozone treatment (somehow causes the blood to thicken a bit when the ozone is added).  The only place to buy the salvestrol is Ebay, where a company in England sells it.  Even from there it is around $600 per mo in these quantities.  It is a potent anticancer remedy.  This treatment takes about 3 mo.

[Mrkharn]

Patrick, that is quite a scientific reply! 

Mark

[Magnus1964]

There  are some websites on natural treatment for cancer. This website does not permit cut and paste so I'll just list website names you can search:

Alternative Cancer Therapies

Alternativecancer.us

Thedcasite.com

These sites will list many treatments, not all are sound.

[ctarleton]

Wikipedia has a general info List of Unproven and Disproven Cancer Treatments available on-line, for anyone who may be concerned about the potential costs or effectiveness of a particular alternative treatment or supplement being considered.  Quackwatch.com has A Special Message to Cancer for Cancer Patients Seeking "Alternative" Treatments section.  The Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center also has a handy About Herbs data base/application that has good info for patients and physicians. 

[wellness]

Thanks, I know that list.  Unfortunately it is put together by someone with an axe to grind against alternative medicine, so one cannot really trust anything they say about any of the protocols.  I do my own research and consult with experts in the field...and I an not talking about allopaths.

[Fude]

Is an either or question, ha ha