This may interest some members!
thyroidpatients.ca/2018/07/...
Low T3 effects on the cardiovascular system
As usual I'm banging on about T3 levels! - Thyroid UK
As usual I'm banging on about T3 levels!
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DippyDame
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very good piece. I think that is the one I sent to my GP!! Haven’t heard from her though.
arTistapple - A must read for you - even mentions Microvascular Angina!
Delgor. DippyDame I just received your tag in time to put the references into my email to the only cardiologist I could find in this area who seems to know anything about this stuff. The Freeman Hospital has world wide recognition but it’s all big macho stuff. This Professor must be utterly charming I think, to get away with her work in the face of all the macho stuff. The post also brings up another paper by Razvi, an endocrinologist I looked at before for possible treatment. This research he is involved in, is much more hands on than any other paper I have seen him involved in! Rightly or wrongly (and we collect a good few of these on our travels) because he works and consults in this strict NO T3 area, I was further reluctant to consult with him. However how can he back T3 through his research and yet not actually prescribe T3? I am hoping he can and does in the face of the dreadful idiot in charge here. No T3 prescriptions I can find on the stats though. Possibly only private prescriptions. Anyway fab bit of sleuthing DippyDame and thanks for the tag Delgor, I have taken three whole days to write my letter!
Good luck!
Excellent and interesting article. Thank you! 🥛🤸🏿♀️
I'm a fan of anything you can share about T3 and T3 monotherapy! 🥰
This is so interesting. Thank you for sharing! 🙏🏽
Brilliant, thanks
Thanks Dippy very interesting and very pertinent to my current situation. Maybe the way forward for me is reducing my NDT and topping up with Liothyronine whilst the ongoing affects of Amiodarone and induced high iodine level goes on. Am emailing this to my cardiothoraisic surgeon! Thankyou. Hope it makes him rethink for patients in the future!
What I should add is post surgery I was told to keep taking another heart drug that also reduces conversion of T4 to T3 in the heart only. One can only think this was/ is not a good idea? It's on my discharge notes so not a mistake.
Especially when other papers also highlight the lack of T3 in the morbidity stats! I think not only are endos useless to our cause, they are outrageously damaging our health. This lack of communication between specialisms is not helpful at all either and damaging our health too. No ‘joined up’ thinking in evidence. No evidence of ‘wholism’. “The knee bone is connected to the ……..”. Etc etc. I don’t know if you had angiograms. I have had two. The paper referred to in DippyDame post also highlights the fact that this procedure damages the health of already compromised thyroids! Apparently this has been known for a number of years.
No I haven't had an agiogram Tistapple. I think my thyroid simply died tbh because back then probably due to another autoimmune condition. I'd had no medical interventions so back then I had faith in the medics. These days I have a very different view.Yes the specialism divisions is a major obstacle to joined up treatment/thinking. I think MDT mtgs are meant to ameliorate this but they are only held for specific cases and for certain situations.
I think the original idea was that GPs could join it up!! These days though they are remote, detatached, no one GP following through, often ill informed and have no time or the skills to perform this role.... If they ever did.... so contraindicated actions are taken by specialist in one field with out regard to the impact elsewhere for a patient. Hence my current mess. Not intentional but could've been avoided or managed better.
You are so correct. I remember a good number of years ago there was quite a big fuss about GPs being known/recognised as “gate keepers”. That would make sense if they knew enough. However they clearly don’t! One of the bits of research Professor Pearse was responsible for was to show the ignorance of any medics about thyroid issues, apart from him and his department of course. This might partly explain his tight rein on the ‘guidelines’. However the research was very poorly done and the outcome should have been along the lines of training GPs etc, not just in showing up their ignorance. Anyway I think it’s partly to do with this that doctors still don’t know enough about thyroid issues and he holds all the power. It’s clearly too much for him but it’s us who suffer.
So true.... Another real shocker is the abject ignorance of most Endocrinologists and their extreme illogical views which may well continue to be held because they know so little. The consequence is the ridiculously poor treatment so many people receive in the UK. It's worse now than ever. I think that's why. Whether this is the reason it's spread to other countries I don't know.... But it's like a madness. And there are probably Endocrinologists out there with Hypothyroidism quietly treating themselves a long very different lines to the current protocols, pathways.
To have the courage to admit that they have been wrong for several decades would risk falling, or being pushed, off the high pedestals they have perched on for so long.
"A false conclusion once arrived at and widely accepted is not easily dislodged and the less it is understood the more tenaciously it is held." Georg Cantor
Opinions (and egos) have trumped facts!
I love that quote Dippy.... Will save it!!Thank you!
Having no thyroid for nearly 10 years and just learning the importance of t3. I have extopics right now how do we know what's a sta b le and good t3 to not get damage? Can it be avoided?
Thanks for this, my Endo has reduced my thyroxine, because of surpressed tsh. Obviously T3 is now getting lower along with T4. I have had breathing problems for the last 10 weeks and now waiting heart and lung consultations, I have said all along its because they have lowered my thyroxine. Doctor did ask Endo for advise and he suggested lowering it more! I don't think so, they really are trying to kill me off
it’s my experience doctors DO NOT keep up with their own professional research. Added to that off course we have the top of the profession, in endocrinology at least, decidedly ignoring up to date research. It’s obvious these guys know the ropes within their own profession’s career ladder. No-one in endocrinology will take on the top guys openly but we can see from the paper mentioned in DippyDame main post, some seem to be working on quietly, whilst also under this regime of idiots.
They seem clueless about T3 and/or are terrified to use it.....many cite cost but that doesn't appear to affect all medical treatments
In extremis thyroid disease is a life threatening disease which is why levothyroxine is free.
As for TSH...once medication is initiated it is not a reliable marker. TSH reflects the level of combined hormones ( FT4 + FT3) it does not reflect the level of each hormone which is important. We are all different and need different treatment and the use of TSH for dosing is causing misery.
bmcendocrdisord.biomedcentr...
Time for a reassessment of the treatment of hypothyroidism
John E. M. Midgley, Anthony D. Toft, Rolf Larisch, Johannes W. Dietrich & Rudolf Hoermann
*******
thyroidpatients.ca/2021/07/...
These are supposed to be intelligent people so this whole T3 mess is unforgivable...and bizarre
The heart needs a huge amount of T3...it's not rocket science!
Do you have any recent labs including FT3? If not refuse any further reductions until they do a full thyroid test
Medics are supposed to follow Patient Autonomy which means any decision is made with both medic and patient. I'm lucky to have open minded GPs and one of them told me this!
nursinganswers.net/essays/i...
Do you know how well you convert T4 to T3, easily established by comparing the Frees. High FT4 with low FT3 = poor conversion.
Listen to your body, you know it better than anyone else....and right now you understand the need for more hormone better than your medics.
They are just human flawed beings like the rest of us, not gods....stand up to them!!
Rant over!!
Take care.
Yes I am a poor converter which is why I wanted to see the endo, hoping for t3, how wrong I was. He first said I wasn't on enough so upped it to 100 per day.Now back down to 100/75 alternate days.
Not sure where he thinks my tsh is going to rise 🤷♀️
Sept 21
T3 3.9 ( 3.70 - 6.70)
T4 20.6 (12.3-20.2)
August 23
T3 3.3 (2.4-6.0)
T4 13.7 (9.0-19.1)
Tsh has been 0.01 (0.35-4.94) since July 13,
You're correct you need a higher FT3...but it has increased, slightly.
On the following basis your endo should be prescribing T3.....he sounds clueless. Probably a diabetic specialist....most are.
Sept 21. FT3 was a miserable 6.67% through the ref range
August 23. FT3 had risen to 25% but still miserably low!
We aim to have FT3 roughly approaching 75% through ref range
Little wonder you feel underpar and your poor heart is complaining!
Also....have you optimised vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin to support conversion?
Meantime consider asking your GP to raise your levo to 100mcg daily...he should be able to exercise professional judgement based on those poor labs then pursue a quest for T3. It may take time to see an endo.
Don't be persuaded by any nonsense about TSH!
I am under the endo, GP won't go against them. Everything else is OK have PA so b12 injections every 8 weeks
Thanks I have read some of the papers before it's the low FT3 which makes us ill.
Not just low FT3.... but ultimately low cellular T3.
As thyroid patients, many of us understand this...unfortunately, many of those charged with our care do not.
Very sad but so true.
Very informative. Thank you!
DD you are so so right. And Thank You for bringing attention to this very big issue. For 23 plus years after my TT I had palpitations. No Dr or Cardiologist can figure out why I was experiencing palpitations. I was afraid to leave my home because I would never know when it would come on. After begging my Endo for T3. I was dosing with 5mcg T3. The Endo lowered my T4 and felt awful. I was thinking that my Endo set me up for failure. Raising my T4 and having enough T4 for my T3 was a total game changer for me. What I don't understand is the hardships that Dr's have giving thyroid patients T3 if T4 doesn't work totally for the patients. Furthermore testing for Iron/ferritin, B-12/folate,vitamin "D",magnesium. Medical Academia should and must educate current and future Dr's/Endo with these very valuable information so that thyroid patients can have healthy outcomes.
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