What is Laybial? Thyroid?

[Lavender-Blue]

Hi

Does anyone know what Laybial (I think that is how it is spelt) thyroid is?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

I don't recognise the term. (There again, I've never been a student of anatomy!)

There are blood vessels such as "inferior labial artery" and "superior thyroid artery".

And there is something called a "lingual thyroid".

[RedApple Administrator]

Could it be Labile?

Medical Definition of labile

: readily or frequently changing: as. a : readily or continually undergoing chemical, physical, or biological change or breakdown a labile antigen.

[Lavender-Blue]

I have been told today my history of how my thyroid functions is Labile (I will use your spelling RedApple)

I have been told to stop taking my medication as I am dub clinical hyperthyroid.

I am to wait to see what happens (rather scary) without the meds for a truer picture.

Told if I stay hyper I may have to go on the hyper meds.

I pray that my thyroid has returned to homeostasis!

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Lavender-Blue]

We have seen a succession of members post that they were considered hyperthyroid, even started on anti-thyroid medicines in some cases, but the reality was that it is a known feature of Hashimoto's.

There is a lot of uncertainty but periods in which the thyroid is able to release more, sometimes too much, thyroid hormone are typical of the progression of Hashimoto's. These periods can be very brief or extended - and often quite variable.

This should not be confused with Grave's disease (nor with any other true hyperthyroid state). Unfortunately we have seen that it is. Rarely does the FT4 or FT3 level rise to the heights often seen with Grave's.

During such times, it is probably advisable to stop taking any thyroid hormones. You don't want those to add to a sufficient or excess that you yourself are producing.

Anti-thyroid medicines are not usually appropriate. A doctor should test for TRab (TSH receptor antibodies) or TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin) if they think you might have Grave's and need anti-thyroid medicines. If they don't do that, they could miss another cause (such as some thyroid tissue operating autonomously regardless of TSH levels). Or they could confuse Hashimoto's and Grave's.

I have no useful advice about how to manage that process. Others who have experience might wish to add comments.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Sounds like a medic only looking at low TSH (which is almost inevitable on any NDT)

What are these “hyperthyroid” results?

If Ft3 is not over range, you’re not over treated

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

Ask GP to test vitamin levels

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

If/when on NDT make sure to take last half or third of daily dose 8-12 hours prior to test, even if this means adjusting time or splitting of dose day before test

Is this how you do your tests?

[Lavender-Blue]

Hi

I only rang gp today to ask for a reissue of levothyroxine due to nature throid recall.

The doctor went straight into telling me the above mentioned (sub clinical hyperthyroidism)) and to stop meds)

After he finished I told him he was giving results in depth that were taken in February this year.

I had spoke to a doctor at the time who said that I reduce slightly.

I was due to have bloods today but doctor said it would be too early as he wantsto see what my thyroid is doing

Results in February:

TSH 0.04 (0.38-5.50)

T4 15.6 (10.0-18.0)

T3 6.8 (3.5-6.5)

Took 75mcg at 2pm (doctor rang me at 2.30pm) he said that I will probably make myself feel worse keep adding thyroid medication.

So tomorrow, I am not taking anything but am scared.

Thank you for reading this.

[humanbean]

Your results in February show a Free T4 that is well in range, a high Free T3 that is so little over the range that it is almost trivial, and a below range TSH. It barely qualifies as subclinical hyperthyroidism.

The doctor who told you that you were at risk of needing hyperthyroid meds is an absolute wally who knows nothing about the thyroid and is doing his best to frighten you, for some bizarre reason of his own. It isn't TSH that determines symptoms in thyroid disease it is Free T3. If the level is too high then the patient will feel hyperthyroid. If the level is too low then the patient will feel hypothyroid.

Can I just point out that thyroid hormones are amongst the safest prescribed drugs and hormones that the medical profession ever prescribes. Compare that to insulin for diabetics - too much or too little can kill people quite easily.

The government in the UK started collating information on adverse effects of all sorts of drugs in 1967, including Levo and T3.

Since 1967 there have been ZERO deaths reported that were believed to be caused by T3.

Since 1967 there have been 19 deaths reported that were believed to be caused by Levo - that's in 53 years.

In contrast, the number of deaths from all causes in England and Wales that were registered in the week ending 21 August 2020 was 9631. Which is a pretty average week I think.

So, really, don't panic. Your doctor has been fear-mongering.

If your thyroid hormone levels are too high for you to feel well then you need to lower your levels, first by stopping your Levo for a short time and then restart it having reduced your dose slightly.

Don't agree to have your Levo prescription stopped and don't agree to take anti-thyroid drugs - you are hypothyroid, not hyperthyroid. You can deal with your current situation yourself as long as you don't panic.

Stop taking your thyroid hormones for a few days, then re-start them at a very slightly lower level when you start to feel a tiny, tiny bit under-medicated or hypothyroid.

If you currently take 75mcg Levo per day, then you could lower the dose to alternating 50mcg and 75mcg per day, or perhaps reduce to 50mcg on Monday and Thursday and stick to 75mcg the rest of the week. The choice is yours. You can lower your dose as much or as little as you want. You don't even have to discuss it with your doctor. If you start to feel hypothyroid with your reduced dose then increase back to the full dose you are prescribed and see what happens.

[humanbean]

To explain what happens in autoimmune hypothyroidism, this is what causes the problems you are having - I wrote this for someone else a couple of days ago :

The most common cause of hypothyroidism in the UK and other western countries is autoimmune issues. In this condition the immune system decides that the thyroid is an enemy and it must be destroyed. When thyroid cells are attacked they release their thyroid hormone contents into the bloodstream. This raises the levels of Free T4 and Free T3, and these higher levels of thyroid hormones cause the TSH to drop in response.

Attacks on the thyroid by the immune system tend to come and go and they may last hours, days, or weeks or even longer. But eventually things calm down, thyroid hormone levels drop, TSH rises - until next time. Each time these attacks on the thyroid happen your thyroid becomes a bit more damaged and you become a bit more hypothyroid.

If people don't know what is happening and don't recognise the symptoms then it can be very alarming, and the symptoms can be very unpleasant. It doesn't help that doctors will only test a lot of patients once a year. So the patient might get their dose of Levo reduced because the doctor thinks the patient "has become hyperthyroid" and then it takes the patient months sometimes to get the dose of Levo raised to the previous level.

Please note that someone with autoimmune hypothyroidism can't become hyperthyroid, no matter what doctors tell the patient. They can be over-medicated with Levo or other thyroid hormones. And they can show high levels of thyroid hormones during an immune system attack. But neither of those situations are the same as being hyperthyroid. The thyroid can't renew itself.

If you continue to have symptoms suggesting you are over-medicated, just stop taking your Levothyroxine until you start to feel a tiny bit hypothyroid then restart your Levo at a slightly lower level than you were taking before you stopped. After a while you may have to raise it back to your previous level.

If you can learn to interpret your own symptoms and understand what is happening to your body then you can manage your Levo dose without having it dropped for months by a doctor.

In the meantime, it would be worth keeping records of your thyroid hormone levels and your TSH for yourself. It is also possible to get them tested with just a finger-prick test and the results are sent to you not your GP - you don't even need to see a doctor. See this link :

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Don't forget to use the discount code to get 10% off.

If you want help on the results then post them in a new post and ask for feedback.

If you do start managing your own hypothyroidism as much as possible then you need to start keeping good records. So, if you stop taking your Levo or change your dose then you must keep records of when you did this and what you changed.

You might want to start keeping records of your basal body temperature (i.e. your temperature before you even get out of bed in the morning), your pulse and your blood pressure.

It is also worth keeping records of any symptoms you have, and how bad they are (score them out of 5 or 10). Lists of common hypothyroidism symptoms are given in these links :

thyroiduk.org/signs-symptom...

Same list, different format :

thyroiduk.org/wp-content/up...

[Lavender-Blue]

Hello !

Thank you for your in depth reply and your time for doing this for me; greatly appreciated.

I have been keeping a diary of what dosing I have been taking for sometime now and the symptoms.

It is a few days now since I last had any medication and I must admit, I am beginning to feel better.

I am also aware that this feeling is most likely temporary whilst my body slowly metabolises the excess hormones.

As soon as I begin to feel hypo I will get my bloods done, my experience is making me think that I have been over medicated for quite some time.

A big thanks.